Need the run-down on nvidia vs ati these days

[wahdangun]

i have card from nvdia and ati, and i never have any problem at all.

But right now in my main rig use ati hd 6950, because i liked eyefinity, its really immers experience. And i think i will never gaming less than 3 monitor again

 

[evolucion8]

The timing and information aren't right. Upon the release of I7, the Top dog from Nvidia should be 285, not 280. At the time, 285 beats everything on the market but ATI is much better in price. At those times, 4870 is the top dog of ATI, and performance is not better than 260, and 260 was priced to match ATI.

ATI only gain ground with the release of Cypress, Sept 2009. 5870 had the performance crown for 6 months until Fermi arrives, but 480 had its technical problem which uses lots of electricity, and therefore can't release a dual core version like ATI did to 5970, which is 5850x2, and was insanely overpriced.

While ATI was busy downscaling Cypress, Nvidia was fixing their Fermi design, which ends up with 460. To answer 460, ATI come with the 6xxx series which they claimed to be a redesign, which ends up slower than 5xxx at better power consumption. In short, in terms of performance 6850 < 460 < 6870.

Due to better yield and the in fact that Nvidia was losing market quick, 460 is being sold at a stealing price which ATI didn't even try to match. Just a short while ago Nvidia released 580 as Fermi 2, which is what 480 intended to be, regaining performance crown. However, in terms of raw power, 580 < 5970. Experience speaking, single core solution is always better than multi core.

Unlike what people believed, 6970 ended up to be a single core CPU which is slower than 580. Because of that, ATI finally decided to match Nvidia's pricing lineups, but Nvidia already have cutdown version of 580, which is 570 and 560 Ti, which both out perform 6870.

So, in terms of performance, 5970 (dual core) < (580) < (570 = 6970 < 6950) < (560 < 6870 < 460 < 6850). The () represents the category in terms of price.

Other than performance, ATI had its new candy called Eyefinity, which supports multi display for gaming. As to Nvidia, aside from the usual, they now have nvidia 3d surround, which is 3x monitor in 3D, requires SLI. There is a difference on how ATI implement tessellation compare to Nvidia. ATI has a special unit on board to do that, while Nvidia uses CUDA cores for it. In short, ATI's tessellation unit does not scale like Nvidia. Having said that, Tessellation is more like a hype at the moment so no big loss here.

That is the history as I see it.

Wrong, the HD 4870 aged better, outperforming the GTX 260+ by a very consistent margin and was very often close to the GTX 280. Aso the HD 6850 traded blows with the GTX 460 1GB more often than not and the HD 6870 is simply faster than both.

You need to learn more about architectures. The GTX 460 and its incarnation, the GTX 560 has less shaders than the GTX 470 and yet, it matches it and outperforms it in many scenarios. So it is a good redesign, and a different approach of Fermi as the original Fermi and its incarnation on the GF110 aren't superscalar like the GF104 and GF114 are.

The HD 6870 has about 30% less stream processors than the HD 5870 and yet, it performs so close that it can make the HD 5870 irrelevant, specially on newer DX11 games with good usage of Tessellation. AMD has been very competitive since the HD 4x00 series, and so nVidia with their great GTX 5x0 series.

 

[Wreckage]

AMD drivers lately have been just plain horrible requiring numerous hot fixes.

Until they get off their marketing driven monthly cycle, the quality of their drivers will continue to suffer.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2673/6

Maintaining a monthly driver release schedule is detrimental to AMD's ability to release quality drivers. This is not the first or only issue we've seen that could have been solved (or at least noticed) by expanded testing that isn't possible with such tight release deadlines. Yes, consistent and frequent driver releases to improve compatibility and performance are a necessity, but doing anything to excess is a very bad idea. Moderation is key and AMD severely needs a better balance here.

 

[Annisman*]

It is true, ATI has had more issues with drivers lately, still, they always release hotfix drivers to deal with them within a day or two. And you can always go back to an older driver set.

For a while ATI came out with a bunch of great performance increasing drivers in a row, now they need to get the basics right.

 

[evolucion8]

AMD drivers lately have been just plain horrible requiring numerous hot fixes.

Until they get off their marketing driven monthly cycle, the quality of their drivers will continue to suffer.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2673/6

How can you say such blatant lie when you don't even have AMD hardware. I've been using AMD cards since the 9700NP and the Mobility Radeon M6 and I've never found any significant issues that could burn my card like someone else or something that would result in poor performance, crashes or BSOD. After all, nVidia drivers are the number one related to Vista crashes, so stop with the FUD and AMD bashing, both vendors have solid drivers. Period.

 

[nOOky]

Driver crashes are system and application related, not simply the fault of the driver every time. I've found the last few months ATI drivers to be sorely lacking though. For example, the HD6850/6870 weren't even supported at first you needed to use an older hotfix driver to install the cards. I could go on, but I won't. I think the idea of monthly driver releases simply to release a driver should be abandoned also. Just polish a set of drivers before they come out, for one thing it makes you look incompetent to have to fix your drivers right after they come out, for another it's annoying to the customers. I hate having to revert to older drivers because newer ones cause issues!

 

[Wreckage]

How can you say such blatant lie when you don't even have AMD hardware.

Actually I have a lot of AMD hardware, so I guess that would make you the liar. :thumbsdown:

In fact I'm posting this from an Athlon II with an ATI tuner card.

There is an ATI card in my sig and my brand new laptop is all "vision".

So stop trying to paint a bias on me the does not exist.

 

[Elfear]

Actually I have a lot of AMD hardware, so I guess that would make you the liar. :thumbsdown:

In fact I'm posting this from an Athlon II with an ATI tuner card.

There is an ATI card in my sig and my brand new laptop is all "vision".

So stop trying to paint a bias on me the does not exist.

Wait, I thought you bought a GTX 470? Do you keep the ATI card in your sig to seem less one-sided?

 

[arkcom]

Wait, I thought you bought a GTX 470? Do you keep the ATI card in your sig to seem less one-sided?

The X1950pro is still very competitive in todays games... lol.

 

[Wreckage]

Wait, I thought you bought a GTX 470? Do you keep the ATI card in your sig to seem less one-sided?

I buy from both companies, wouldn't buying form just one be "one-sided"

 

[blastingcap]

I buy from both companies, wouldn't buying form just one be "one-sided"

Regardless of his bias or lack of bias, Wreckage's predictions have been more accurate than some have expected.

 

[wahdangun]

AMD drivers lately have been just plain horrible requiring numerous hot fixes.

Until they get off their marketing driven monthly cycle, the quality of their drivers will continue to suffer.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2673/6

wtf, thats article is from 2008, the hotfix is a beta driver and sometimes to add feature like MLAA, so you really chose to let them not to fix the bug? yeah its not like nvdia when they killing your card by disabling the card fan(thank God i have custom fan), or when they not admit 8XXXX series fatal flaw (i have asus laptop that get killed because of it, and it have 8600MGT) thats why i prefer ati now they seems have higher hardware quality and i never have the problem with their latest driver.

 

[badb0y]

Regardless of his bias or lack of bias, Wreckage's predictions have been more accurate than some have expected.

I hope this is sarcasm...

It's not an answer either, as the card is not out yet, so your claims of performance are meaningless. The 4870 will be slower than a 8600GT.

 

[Jacky60]

AMD drivers lately have been just plain horrible requiring numerous hot fixes.

Until they get off their marketing driven monthly cycle, the quality of their drivers will continue to suffer.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2673/6

Unfortunately some people who it seems have never owned an ATI card and never would (draw you own conclusions about why that might be) have very strong opinions about ATI drivers. Yes some people have problems sometimes as they do with Nvidia drivers. If someone refuses to use a manufacturers products yet has such strong opinions about them you have to ask what their motivation is and where it comes from?

 

[tommo123]

well, i own a 6950 flashed to a 6970 and have no probs. ( i have on a 30" monitor so need the 2GB ram)

half tempted to throw in a 2nd to last me a good while

 

[MentalIlness]

Actually I have a lot of AMD hardware

In fact I'm posting this from an Athlon II with an ATI tuner card.

There is an ATI card in my sig and my brand new laptop is all "vision".

So other than a ATI Tuner card, and a X1950 which is as old as these types of threads.....exactly what is your current AMD card running at ? Specs ? Bios flash ? What are your current drivers ? Screenshot ? Is the rig in your sig your "current" rig ?

And what exactly other AMD cards do you have since you have a lot of AMD hardware ? And what drivers are you using ?

I believe you have no current AMD hardware, which probably means you have zero experience with current/recent AMD drivers. So in other words, Your posts in this thread is based on your opinions on drivers/hardware that you do not own. And not on actual proof.

I've been running AMD card/cards for the last two months or so. And it is the first time I have in almost 6 years. I have not experienced one single problem yet. Except for GPUz recognizing the wrong drivers. Which of course was fixed when I uninstalled and reinstalled, instead of just installing one driver over the other.

I also believe that probably 90&#37; or more RMA's are due to user error. And not bad hardware. People read these forums and think,.....hey I bought a 6950 and I can turn it into a 6970....AWESOME. And to begin with, they probably don't even know what they are doing.

In my opinion, with the way GPU's are these days, and how fast they are...anyone that bricks/damages a card based on overvolting/unlocking/overclocking totally deserves it anyway for trying to raise their e-peen.

So yea, 90% or more of RMA's, or whatever the cause may be for a particular card to go bad, I believe is user error.

If you can't swim...don't jump in the water.

Edit: Forgot to add, I went back to Radeon this time because.....I got sick and tired of the stuttering/jerkiness of Youtube videos on the NV card I had. 9800GTX. And if you want to discuss this, My brother can tell you the numerous driver problems he is having with his EVGA GTX 460. Driver version 266

 

[SlowSpyder]

My last three cards have been AMD (2900 Pro, 4870, 5870) and before that was all Nvidia with the exception of an old Radeon DDR 32MB. With the exception of a few little quirky things here and there drivers from both camps have been very good overall.

 

[apoppin]

My last three cards have been AMD (2900 Pro, 4870, 5870) and before that was all Nvidia with the exception of an old Radeon DDR 32MB. With the exception of a few little quirky things here and there drivers from both camps have been very good overall.

i have at least 25 video cards - the oldest PCIe cards are a HD 2900XT and a 8800-GTX - and HD 4000 series, 5000 series, 6000 series - including GTX 200, 400 and 500 and i run CrossFire and SLI.

i currently test every single WHQL driver (and some betas also) with 32 benchmarks for performance and - except for a few stumbles here and there - the overall driver support from both AMD and Nvidia are excellent for PC gamers.

 

[MentalIlness]

i have at least 25 video cards - the oldest PCIe cards are a HD 2900XT and a 8800-GTX - and HD 4000 series, 5000 series, 6000 series - including GTX 200, 400 and 500 and i run CrossFire and SLI.

i currently test every single WHQL driver (and some betas also) with 32 benchmarks for performance and - except for a few stumbles here and there - the overall driver support from both AMD and Nvidia are excellent for PC gamers.

This should put a stake in the AMD/NV driver problem threads.

By the way apoppin, Love your site. Great reviews and benchmarks over there.

 

[Arkadrel]

Ive had 5870 for sometime... and only issues have had with drivers is one version turned my screen abit "red" for some reason, it apperntly came with colour scheme defaults that where abit "red". I went in and lowered the red bar abit and was back running as normal.

cant remember which driver that was, but since then Ive probably gone onto another driver version, I usually just install the lastest ones, and I have gone for along time without running into any driver issues.

Which is why I find it odd whenever I see the "amd has bad drivers" stuff.. apperntly Im a lucky guy that just doesnt run into issues.

On the otherhand, I remember the infinity loops, where nvidia cards got so hot the died... and fans that got turned off in drivers that also caused cards to die. I dont think ATI has ever had drivers that killed their grafic cards released... but somehow nvidia always has the reputation for haveing better drivers, and otherside haveing bad ones.

 

[blanketyblank]

I think it's because nvidia is much better at covering up their mistakes.
Unlike ATI they don't release hotfixes for bad drivers, but instead they just pull them and replace them eventually. Thus they leave no trail so haters can link to hotfixes and complain about.
Similarly their laptop gpus had serious problems in the past. Two of my laptops got fried gpus which I believe was due to a problem NV only settled years later. By that time, people just no longer care and when their laptops break just attribute it to the OEM.

 

[Wreckage]

For awhile AMD/ATI's drivers used to install Steam and or BDARemote whether you needed them or not which is truly annoying. Currently my biggest complaint is the amount of hotfixes required even though they release a new driver every month as it is. Also they drop support for older cards a lot sooner than NVIDIA does.

Just release the driver when it's ready!

This is one of the reasons why my gaming rig does not have an AMD card in it.

I use plenty of other AMD products that don't require a patch upwards of 5 times a month and they run fine. However for gaming, I don't find that to be a reliable solution.

 

[badb0y]

For awhile AMD/ATI's drivers used to install Steam and or BDARemote whether you needed them or not which is truly annoying. Currently my biggest complaint is the amount of hotfixes required even though they release a new driver every month as it is. Also they drop support for older cards a lot sooner than NVIDIA does.

Just release the driver when it's ready!

This is one of the reasons why my gaming rig does not have an AMD card in it.

I use plenty of other AMD products that don't require a patch upwards of 5 times a month and they run fine. However for gaming, I don't find that to be a reliable solution.

You don't have to update the drivers every time they release them. However, if there is a person who is having issues, the monthly driver update might actually fix their driver issue.