need help with sli titan black

[saeedkunna]

thank you ryan i will wait for you tommrow although as you said i dont feel lucky

 

[blackened23]

Seems Ryan got you your answer for the most part regardless how loud Blackened tells you otherwise.

The issue is motherboard related with his formula VI. SLI does require x8 speeds or greater, as far I know it has been this way for a very long time. I assumed that the Formula would use the lower slot at x1/x4. Dedicated physx does work at x1/x4, I have done it. Granted, it took me 30 minutes to decide that dedicated physx was a waste of time, but nonetheless, it worked and still works. The problem with that motherboard is it only has full size gen 3 slots. Most other z77 asus motherboards have a full size gen 2 slot which can run at x1 or x4. I expected the lower pcie slot on the maximus vi to be gen2 like other asus motherboards in the 7 series. If it were, it would work. Apparently, this is not the case.

I used dedicated physx in addition to SLI 680 GPUs on this board:

http://www.asus.com/media/global/products/OVCFmLeMZdeMER8x/pQtvtWI0gHI2xr5P_500.jpg

Which has a full size gen 2 slot at the bottom, and this worked fine, and yes, this is a non PLX motherboard with 16 CPU pcie lanes just like the rest.

 

[Ryan Smith]

Got a response from NVIDIA. As I thought, they do not support SLI on anything less than a 8 PCIe lanes (and this goes for all cards, not just high-end like Titan). Which is why SLI is no longer available once that x16_2 slot is demoted to x4.

saeedkunna, you're not going to be able to put anything in x16_3 if you want to maintain SLI. Short of finding a way to install that GTX 750 Ti in one of the PCIe x1 slots, the only other option is to swap out the motherboard. Sorry I do not have better news for you.

 

[3DVagabond]

Oh. If you say so. If there's an issue, it's either a motherboard issue or maybe an issue with the latest beta. I don't know. But I know this works. As i've said. I have done this on Z77, A Z77 board WITHOUT PLX, therefore it works. Dedicated physx DOES NOT count towards SLI and does in fact work at either 1x or 4x speeds. Again, it has been done by myself and a quick cursory glance at 1x speeds with a dedicated physx cards via google reveals that apparently many have done just that. I've seen x1 pcie dedicated physx benchmarks floating around somewhere as well. Imagine that.

It's just hilarious to read 20 messages saying there's a 16 lane pcie limit. It's hilarious to read 20 messages stating that physx = SLI. The physx card isn't being SLI'ed, now is it? Anyway, 16 lane pcie limit. If that were true, you wouldn't be able to use ANY addon boards above your SLI GPUs on a mainstream chipset motherboard. Anyone using their common sense knows that this is not the case. Motherboards are intelligent about pci e lane management. If you throw a sound card in, it isn't going to put it on the gen 3 bus. If you put a wifi card in, it doesn't get thrown into pcie x8 gen 3 speeds. These addon cards will be put on the chipset lanes which is gen 2. The gen 3 16 lanes are not applicable if they're taken by SLI GPUs. Has been this way for years. But suddenly, nobody knows this.

Similarly, a dedicated physx card in addentum to SLI will get put on the gen 2 bus. This may require a specific slot. I know on the Asus Z77 boards, there was a full size gen 2 pci express slot which worked 100% fine for a dedicated physx at 1x or 4x speeds. Again, I tried it for about 30 minutes before deciding "F this, I don't need a dedicated physx card". That was with 680 sli. So it works. Period. Others have made it work at x1 and x4. But, whatever. Since this issue apparently is only with the asus board linked earlier, I have a feeling that it may be related to that, which is why it would be a good idea to mention on the asus ROG forum. We'll see though. It could be a bug with the latest beta. Who knows. But dedicated physx at x1/x4 has worked, basically, forever.

Because of the layout of the board though, if you put 2 slot cards in the first two pcie slots the only place left to install a 3rd 2 slot card is in the 3rd pcie 3.0 slot. That slot shares lanes with the 2nd slot knocking the 2nd slot down to x4. The 2nd slot running at x4 is what is breaking SLI. This is the general consensus, anyway. Ryan is going to attempt to find out for certain from Asus.

Nobody is saying PhysX requires x8 and trying to run it @ x4 is what's breaking. Nobody is saying that the PhysX card is running in SLI.

 

[blackened23]

Correct. I admittedly made an error. I operated under the assumption that the formula VI, like the P8Z77 deluxe which I used, kicked the lower slot to the gen 2 chipset lanes. In which the dedicated physx card would work fine. Apparently the Formula does not do this.

Essentially, the layout of the board causes the dedicated physx card to do what it does. However, dedicated physx does work in addendum to SLI on mainstream boards. I made an error with the assumption on the mobo, and got a little too annoyed in the process. Again, my mistake.

 

[wand3r3r]

It can. You can do SLI + physx on mainstream boards. OP: You won't get answers for this here. If you want useful answers, go to that nvidia website (the NV devs are usually pretty responsive) or go to the asus ROG website (they are also responsive). It could be a motherboard issue. But in any case, asus makes titan black boards so they could more directly work on the issue with you.

I suspect continuing the question here would lead down a path of subtle trolling and non answers from those with no experience with either piece of hardware. The above two (asus ROG forum + NV forum) are the best bet to really get an answer.

Why you keep trying to push him away from one of the more popular tech sites?

---

He got the answer he came for. On top of that it's good to spread awareness of the need for x8 slots minimum for SLI and his issue where the MB drops PCI-E speeds thanks to the weak PCI-E multi GPU support on the mid range boards.

---

This is kind of an almost undocumented feature (requires knowledge before purchasing), since the board has multiple PCI-E slots one would assume that you could use the "supported" dual card SLI and drop in a physx card in one of the extra slots. It's good to be aware that you have to have x8, x8, xAnything with 3 cards to use a physx card. Maybe they need a dual SLI + physx logo (or 3x SLI + physx).

 

[3DVagabond]

Correct. I admittedly made an error. I operated under the assumption that the formula VI, like the P8Z77 deluxe which I used, kicked the lower slot to the gen 2 chipset lanes. In which the dedicated physx card would work fine. Apparently the Formula does not do this.

Essentially, the layout of the board causes the dedicated physx card to do what it does. However, dedicated physx does work in addendum to SLI on mainstream boards. I made an error with the assumption on the mobo, and got a little too annoyed in the process. Again, my mistake.

Cheers! :thumbsup:

 

[Galatian]

OP: did you saw my earlier post about your RAM allocation? To me it looks like you got them in the wrong slot. I think both DIMMs need to go into the same colored slot. In the picture your posted in your first post it looks like your got them in one black and one red slot which would mean they are not running in dual channel I believe.

 

[Braxos]

OP: did you saw my earlier post about your RAM allocation? To me it looks like you got them in the wrong slot. I think both DIMMs need to go into the same colored slot. In the picture your posted in your first post it looks like your got them in one black and one red slot which would mean they are not running in dual channel I believe.

 

[Galatian]

My point: he has them in the wrong slots.

 

[blackened23]

Yeah, indeed they are in the wrong slots. Z77-Z97 use dual channel memory. With the way he's set up, he's using single channel memory. Which may work, but obviously cuts his performance. From what I can tell he has DIMMs in A1 and A2 which is single channel.

 

[coffeejunkee]

SLI doesn't matter. This is incorrect information. PLX doesn't matter. SLI doesn't matter.

Let's summarize the answers you received here: "nvidia won't allow it". (wrong, trolling) PLX matters (wrong). SLI matters (wrong, physx addon doesn't count towards SLI). PLX simply adds PCI express lanes to allow quad SLI on your board. Being that physx is not SLI, it doesn't matter. You do not need 8 or 16 lanes to run your physx card. I have tried this once on Z77. I didn't keep it, mind you, but it worked - SLI + a physx card. Use one of the suggested avenues to get a real answer. You will not get a real answer here.

Ok, you're right. I should have added 'or a board that uses lanes from the chipset for the 3rd pci-e x16 slot'. Sorry the thought didn't occur to me at the time.

In general: I hadn't really thought about it before this but the way Z chipsets split up the cpu pci-e lanes just means the 3rd slot is unuseable if you use SLI. Don't even need it for 3-way CF, that works with chipset lanes too.

 

[saeedkunna]

thank you everyone you helped alot and btw i got the answer from this place before anywhere else .
yes Galatian i corrected the ram thank you .

 

[Ketchup]

So let's just say that someone wanted to run a setup like saeedkunna mentioned in the OP. Is this possible? Or is an SLI limitation Ryan Smith was talking about.

 

[AntonioHG]

You could, with other boards, or (probably) with this board if you have a card that will go into the PCI-E x1 slot (or maybe cutting the slot so a full length card would physically get in there)

 

[3DVagabond]

So let's just say that someone wanted to run a setup like saeedkunna mentioned in the OP. Is this possible? Or is an SLI limitation Ryan Smith was talking about.

I'd say to look for a board that it's PCIe 3.0 slots are minimum x8/x8/x4 in order to run SLI with a 3rd card (PhysX or whatever) occupying the 3rd PCIe 3.0 slot. This board is a bit unusual as it runs x8/x4/x4 when a 3rd card is installed.

 

[Skurge]

If you are going to use a physx card, both the 3rd card and the board must support 3 way SLI if I am not mistaken.

 

[blackened23]

That is mistaken. It doesn't need tri SLI support for a dedicated physx in addition to sli. The board simply needs a full size pcie slot that acommodates pci-e x1 or x4 speeds which doesn't interfere with the CPU pcie lanes. Most boards have this, and they utilize the chipset pcie lanes which is separate from the CPU lanes. Again, the CPU (for mainstream Haswell) has 16 PCIE lanes. The chipset has 4-8 PCIE lanes. Most motherboards have 1 full size pcie slot at the bottom that runs at gen 2 off of the CHIPSET instead of the CPU lanes, at x1 or x4 speeds. Physx works there. That formula motherboard seems to be an anomaly in that respect. What it is doing is applying all of the CPU lanes to all of the full size slots. Most motherboards that I have used, do not do things this way. I know the sabertooth Z77 and P8z77 deluxe and pro motherboards were able to do physx cards just fine in addition to SLI. You would think the more expensive Formula VI could do that as well. But that is not the case. Strange design decisions by Asus.

Essentially, every SLI motherboard will have 2 pci express generation 3 slots that run off of the CPU. Simply look at the other pcie slots. MOST MOTHERBOARDS run the x1 and x4 generation 2 slots courtesy of the chipset. P8Z77 deluxe is a great example if you look up a picture of it. All of the x1 and x4 full size slot are provided by the Z77 chipset. The two upper full size slots are provided by the CPU. Using that, you can use SLI + dedicated physx with no problem, and that board does not support tri SLI. That lower slot is running off the chipset. Whereas the formula runs all full size slots off of the cpu.

If in doubt, ask the mobo manufacturer. Most boards do it just fine, again, the Formula VI is an anomaly in that respect.

 

[notty22]

If you are going to use a physx card, both the 3rd card and the board must support 3 way SLI if I am not mistaken.

Nope. The OP's particular board is a oddity. The bottom pci-e is not hooked to the chipset's lanes, like many boards are.
Looking for a pro for this configuration might be the ability for 3 card crossfire all using the cpu's lanes and not bringing in the addition of the chipset. Which might had latency??, whether it's noted or not.
It would be 8x 4x 4x in crossfire.
SLI demands 8x 8x leaving nothing for the bottom pci-e slot in the ops' motherboard. Putting a card in there breaks SLI in this case.

 

[blackened23]

^spot on, and less wordy than my own post.

 

[ViRGE]

You could, with other boards, or (probably) with this board if you have a card that will go into the PCI-E x1 slot (or maybe cutting the slot so a full length card would physically get in there)

The good news is that the PCIe x1 slots are already open backed. However this board has ASUS's ROG Armor on it, which normally is a good thing but in this case the armor would get in the way of the PCIe edge connector for anything longer than x1.

http://www.asus.com/media/global/products/Dbn0i1Jz1yusKO7u/pRXd0MpzT0RFF2fv_1000.jpg

I'm not sure if the armor is easily removable.

 

[coffeejunkee]

Nope. The OP's particular board is a oddity. The bottom pci-e is not hooked to the chipset's lanes, like many boards are.
Looking for a pro for this configuration might be the ability for 3 card crossfire all using the cpu's lanes and not bringing in the addition of the chipset. Which might had latency??, whether it's noted or not.
It would be 8x 4x 4x in crossfire.
SLI demands 8x 8x leaving nothing for the bottom pci-e slot in the ops' motherboard. Putting a card in there breaks SLI in this case.

Yes, this layout is better for 3-way CF. 3-way CF also works with a x4 slot from the chipset but the problem, apart from any added latency, is that the lanes are still pci-e 2.0. This will probably bottleneck the 3rd card, especially if it's a high-end model. I'd like to see this tested though, the bottleneck might not be so bad. All reviews use high-end boards with plenty of lanes so you never see the effect of using chipset lanes for CF setups.

The good news is that the PCIe x1 slots are already open backed. However this board has ASUS's ROG Armor on it, which normally is a good thing but in this case the armor would get in the way of the PCIe edge connector for anything longer than x1.

http://www.asus.com/media/global/products/Dbn0i1Jz1yusKO7u/pRXd0MpzT0RFF2fv_1000.jpg

I'm not sure if the armor is easily removable.

PCI-e 2.0 x1 might be enough for a Physx card but the problem is the layout, you probably won't find a board that has a x1 slot with enough room around it to fit a 2-slot card and also leaving enough room for 2 gpu's.

Also, even though this particular problem won't happen too often, might be nice to have something of a warning dialog like "we detected your pci-e slot 2 is running at x4 speed. SLI requires x8 to function correctly." instead of just disabling sli option. And maybe Asus should mention something too under the specifications section for this board.

 

[AntonioHG]

The good news is that the PCIe x1 slots are already open backed. However this board has ASUS's ROG Armor on it, which normally is a good thing but in this case the armor would get in the way of the PCIe edge connector for anything longer than x1.

http://www.asus.com/media/global/products/Dbn0i1Jz1yusKO7u/pRXd0MpzT0RFF2fv_1000.jpg

I'm not sure if the armor is easily removable.

The armor is easily removed and the open ended x1 slots are great, but don't make up for the silly problem this board has.