Need a new daily driver <$25k

[vi edit]

If you're willing to look at the sonic (which is godawful, and I had high hopes for it) have you considered the CR-Z? I enjoyed driving the CR-Z far more than the Sonic, and it's better specced (IMO). HIDs and NAV for under your asking price, & it's at least interesting to look at.

I haven't driven it, so I can't provide any firsthand input on the Sonic, but what didn't you care for? I've read a lot of web reviews on it and the overwhelming opinion is that it's basically a subcompact version of the GTi. It's steering feel is good, handling is good, powerband is very robust for the segment and it's real world economy is excellent.

 

[SandEagle]

new altima

 

[nerp]

Like?

I think autos are boring to drive personally, but if the car is enjoyable and what I want in other regards I'd consider an auto.

Well the 2012 Charger and 300 both are big, powerful, roomy and have 30+ mpg on the highway with 87 gas. The v6s with 8-speed transmissions. I used to be a "manual only" kind of guy but I changed my mind over the years once newer transmissions began to outperform sticks in terms of both performance and economy. I wouldn't call either of those cars boring to drive. Personally, I find rowing the shifter tedious to the point of boring. I like to keep both my hands on the wheel and just drive.

 

[Viper GTS]

I haven't driven it, so I can't provide any firsthand input on the Sonic, but what didn't you care for? I've read a lot of web reviews on it and the overwhelming opinion is that it's basically a subcompact version of the GTi. It's steering feel is good, handling is good, powerband is very robust for the segment and it's real world economy is excellent.

To be fair I didn't drive them back to back. I drove the CR-Z shortly after the tsunami, and the Sonic many months later after I'd already picked up the Viper (which probably didn't help my perspective).

Overall I think it's just a limitation of the segment - New cars in that price range are going to feel cheap and be woefully underpowered compared to the stuff I am driving today. I've accepted that I'm happier driving ~10 year high powered cars than anemic new ones.

That said, I enjoyed driving the CR-Z enough that I seriously considered buying one. The Sonic I regretted as soon as I left the parking lot on the test drive. The CR-Z just feels more sporty, even if it really isn't. The lower seating position probably helps. In the Sonic I felt like I was sitting on top of a pillar vs the more sports-car like seating in the CR-Z. I know the Sonic is more powerful (and really quite good for the segment) but it's not enough so to be a differentiating factor. It is still slow, & doesn't have enough else going for it to make up for it. With the CR-Z I liked enough other stuff about it that I was willing to overlook the slowness.

In the end I sold the Mustang GT and bought jlee's Forester. Close to ~300 awhp is much more like it, but still only barely enough.

Viper GTS

 

[xSkyDrAx]

This is my experience with the speed3.

You can get them for fairly cheap. I got mine OTD for 24.7k without much negotiating (a few emails back and forth). Could probably do better but compared to the 28k+ the Suby dealer was asking for the WRX it was well within my budget.

Interior is pretty nice aside from the red spotted patterning on the seats though I personally don't mind them, they have been known to be deal breakers for others. Seats themselves are pretty comfortable and does well to hold you in place and doesn't kill you after a long car ride. It comes almost fully loaded aside from the tech package which gives you everything else (nav/HIDs/push-start/blind spot sensor). Personal favorite are the Bose speakers which are pretty nice esp with the truck mounted sub.

In terms of performance, I'm sure you're already familiar with its mountain of torque. Torque steer is not too bad if you're expecting it when you mash the pedal and hold on with 2 hands. Clutch is on the heavier side depending on what you're using to driving and has a very short engagement point. Steering feel is awesome and the shifter feels great. Ride is a bit firm but that is to be expected. Car is just a blast to drive.

Mileage I've seen between 22 and 25 MPG based on my calculations but I do like 70/30 street/freeway driving. On the highway I've seen the calculator in the car go up to 33 MPG and I wouldn't be surprised if you hit close to there if you do mostly freeway driving.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Well the 2012 Charger and 300 both are big, powerful, roomy and have 30+ mpg on the highway with 87 gas. The v6s with 8-speed transmissions. I used to be a "manual only" kind of guy but I changed my mind over the years once newer transmissions began to outperform sticks in terms of both performance and economy. I wouldn't call either of those cars boring to drive. Personally, I find rowing the shifter tedious to the point of boring. I like to keep both my hands on the wheel and just drive.

While I do appreciate the input, the 300 has always seemed to be more of a boat than an enjoyable driver. After this Dodge I'm not really looking to go back to Dodge again. I got this car for a cheap car to get me through college. It's done that very well, even with some hiccups.

As for the manual vs auto debate, I can respect where you're coming from. That being said, it's rare that I actually have both hands on the wheel. More often than not I have one hand or just a few fingers on the wheel and am not really "driving" to where two hands is required. And when I am I still prefer the feel from a stick. To each their own however.

Also, I'll take a look at the CRZ. I'm not huge on the styling (same could be said about the Sonic), but I wasn't huge on the Neon either.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

This is my experience with the speed3.

You can get them for fairly cheap. I got mine OTD for 24.7k without much negotiating (a few emails back and forth). Could probably do better but compared to the 28k+ the Suby dealer was asking for the WRX it was well within my budget.

Interior is pretty nice aside from the red spotted patterning on the seats though I personally don't mind them, they have been known to be deal breakers for others. Seats themselves are pretty comfortable and does well to hold you in place and doesn't kill you after a long car ride. It comes almost fully loaded aside from the tech package which gives you everything else (nav/HIDs/push-start/blind spot sensor). Personal favorite are the Bose speakers which are pretty nice esp with the truck mounted sub.

In terms of performance, I'm sure you're already familiar with its mountain of torque. Torque steer is not too bad if you're expecting it when you mash the pedal and hold on with 2 hands. Clutch is on the heavier side depending on what you're using to driving and has a very short engagement point. Steering feel is awesome and the shifter feels great. Ride is a bit firm but that is to be expected. Car is just a blast to drive.

Mileage I've seen between 22 and 25 MPG based on my calculations but I do like 70/30 street/freeway driving. On the highway I've seen the calculator in the car go up to 33 MPG and I wouldn't be surprised if you hit close to there if you do mostly freeway driving.

As mentioned in the OP I test drove the Speed 3 a few years ago. I thought it was much more enjoyable of a car than the Si was from a "fun to drive" deal. From a quality perspective I thought the Si was a better built car and more "techy" car. That is purely my perception though.

A relative of mine just got a 2012 Civic (non-Si) and really likes it. I didn't drive it (automatic anyways) but from sitting in it and looking around it is a nice car and I think I would enjoy driving it for a few years.

 

[RagingBITCH]

That's a pretty wide range. I mean I guess you have to narrow it down between large, mid-size, or small. Then sedan vs coupe. Then NA vs turbo. FWD vs AWD. Foreign vs domestic. Boy racer vs dependable daily driver.

 

[SandEagle]

As mentioned in the OP I test drove the Speed 3 a few years ago. I thought it was much more enjoyable of a car than the Si was from a "fun to drive" deal. From a quality perspective I thought the Si was a better built car and more "techy" car. That is purely my perception though.

A relative of mine just got a 2012 Civic (non-Si) and really likes it. I didn't drive it (automatic anyways) but from sitting in it and looking around it is a nice car and I think I would enjoy driving it for a few years.

the 2012 civic was a major letdown all around. thats why honda redesigned it for the 2013 model. should be hitting the dealerships soon. wait to see how that is

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

That's a pretty wide range. I mean I guess you have to narrow it down between large, mid-size, or small. Then sedan vs coupe. Then NA vs turbo. FWD vs AWD. Foreign vs domestic. Boy racer vs dependable daily driver.

This is early on in the search. To answer the questions you posed:
-Mid-size or small
-Sedan preferred, but coupe works too.
-NA is preferred, but turbo is fine too. As I understand it turbos can present more problems.
-Prefer AWD, but only the WRX is AWD that I'm aware of in that price range. FWD is not a problem.
-Foreign vs domestic is a pointless debate IMHO. Hell the Accord is one of the most domestically produced cars as is the Camry (http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story...ct=ami&story=amMade0712&referer=&aff=national). Moving past that, I care more about the quality of the car than where the parts were made and assembled with a few exceptions.
-Daily driver is paramount. A sporty/fun car would be nice but only if it works as a good DD

the 2012 civic was a major letdown all around. thats why honda redesigned it for the 2013 model. should be hitting the dealerships soon. wait to see how that is

I won't be buying in the next week, and have just put money into my current car to keep it going a bit longer. I'll look at the 2013 model Civic for sure though.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

Ford Focus Titanium (5spd manual is a no cost option)

Its 160HP and far more sporty than the Civic, Corolla, Elantra.

8" touch screen and 10 speaker audio is included in price with 17" wheels, 4whl disc brakes, keyless entry with push button start and sport tuned suspension. Leather, moonroof, heated seats, parking sensors are all options.

You will be able to get one for well under $25K loaded up and still achieve 33+mpg on regular gas.

Hatchback or sedan are available.

 

[JTsyo]

BRZ is around $25K. MPG should be close to 30 if you drive highway more.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Ford Focus Titanium (5spd manual is a no cost option)

Its 160HP and far more sporty than the Civic, Corolla, Elantra.

8" touch screen and 10 speaker audio is included in price with 17" wheels, 4whl disc brakes, keyless entry with push button start and sport tuned suspension. Leather, moonroof, heated seats, parking sensors are all options.

You will be able to get one for well under $25K loaded up and still achieve 33+mpg on regular gas.

Hatchback or sedan are available.

I really like that. A lot. Only problem is it's more money than the Civic Si or Speed3. But this interior looks very very nice:

 

[Dr. Detroit]

I really like that. A lot. Only problem is it's more money than the Civic Si or Speed3. But this interior looks very very nice:

HUGE Discounts can be had - especially on leftover 2012's. Should be able to get $4-5K off. but Titanium manual trans cars are hard to come by.

Dealer may let you special order and give you a nice $2K discount.

 

[QuantumPion]

Civic SI or v6 mustang

 

[nerp]

To be fair I didn't drive them back to back. I drove the CR-Z shortly after the tsunami, and the Sonic many months later after I'd already picked up the Viper (which probably didn't help my perspective).

Overall I think it's just a limitation of the segment - New cars in that price range are going to feel cheap and be woefully underpowered compared to the stuff I am driving today. I've accepted that I'm happier driving ~10 year high powered cars than anemic new ones.

That said, I enjoyed driving the CR-Z enough that I seriously considered buying one. The Sonic I regretted as soon as I left the parking lot on the test drive. The CR-Z just feels more sporty, even if it really isn't. The lower seating position probably helps. In the Sonic I felt like I was sitting on top of a pillar vs the more sports-car like seating in the CR-Z. I know the Sonic is more powerful (and really quite good for the segment) but it's not enough so to be a differentiating factor. It is still slow, & doesn't have enough else going for it to make up for it. With the CR-Z I liked enough other stuff about it that I was willing to overlook the slowness.

In the end I sold the Mustang GT and bought jlee's Forester. Close to ~300 awhp is much more like it, but still only barely enough.

Viper GTS

I got my wife a 2012 Forester last year. It's a great vehicle.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

DV - how important is MPG?

You are getting 33mpg combined on regular unleaded in the Neon with low repair costs. Are you OK with getting a 6spd manual trans Turbo Focus ST or Mazdaspeed 3 that will average 24mpg on premium fuel for $25- $27K?

The ST is rated at 23/32 and uses 87 octane.

 

[HopJokey]

I really like that. A lot. Only problem is it's more money than the Civic Si or Speed3. But this interior looks very very nice:

+1 for a Focus Ti. I've had mine for 9 months (dual clutch auto version) and still enjoy it.

 

[Atty]

Friends don't let friends get Volkswagens. I'll give that the Jettas are peppy but ugh, everything about them just feels cheap. Always had problems with them. Same goes with the Golf.

What kind of problems? Four of my co-workers have VWs, two with Golfs (one R32 and another MK6 GTI) and two others with the new GLI.

I've driven the 10-12 GTI's and found them enjoyable. Interior was nice and power was alright and I've driven the GLI too, with its Stage 2 and extra go-fast bits, it was a blast. I've been considering one.

 

[JCH13]

What kind of problems? Four of my co-workers have VWs, two with Golfs (one R32 and another MK6 GTI) and two others with the new GLI.

I've driven the 10-12 GTI's and found them enjoyable. Interior was nice and power was alright and I've driven the GLI too, with its Stage 2 and extra go-fast bits, it was a blast. I've been considering one.

Yay! People own VWs!

A friend of mine had a GTI, the inter-cooling piping blew apart on his (unmodified) and he had some sort of fueling issue.

 

[patrick409]

I have a 2012 vw GTI and I'm pretty happy with it so far. The interiors of the GTI are far superior to the regular Jettas. Soft touch materials everywhere and chrome accents in all the right places. There are no reliability issues to watch out for with the mk6 gtis that I know of.

Some data points for you (personal opinion/experience of course).

- decent gas mileage. (caveat, I have the DSG) I've been getting 25-27mpg this summer with AC on all the time. I also do lots of city driving and have a lead foot. Liberal usage of sport mode when I get the chance. 30+mpg is easily obtainable if you're on the highway a lot.

- I got the 4dr. Plenty of space in the back for adults. I'm about 6' and the person sitting behind me still has room. The hatchback is also super convenient if you ever need to move cargo. You can fit a suprising amount of crap back there with the seats down. Also super easy to park since the car is a bit short.

- I love the steering/handling. I especially love the steering wheel. LOVE. Seriously, go test drive one.

- seats are nice. Good amount of bolstering. Supposedly not that comfortable if you have thick thighs (or are a big dude), but i'm about normal sized and they're nice and comfy for me. Not everyone likes the plaid, but I think it looks nice.

- enough power. Probably the weakest of the hot hatch segment(ms3/st/wrx), but more than enough oomph for a bit of fun. I guess the benefit is better mileage and low torque steer. If you really need more power you can get a $500 stage 1 tune.

- sport suspension + low profile tires means it's a bit rough in the Chicago potholes, but I've taken a few long roadtrips and it's been perfectly comfortable. Plenty fine for a daily driver.

 

[Atty]

Yay! People own VWs!

What I meant by that was that they haven't had any problems with theirs. >_>

 

[JCH13]

What I meant by that was that they haven't had any problems with theirs. >_>

I know, I was just jerking your chain :sneaky:

 

[draknon]

I'd take a look at the Veloster and Veloster Turbo. They are excellent values and have tons of features and great fuel economy. I'd also take a look at the Elantra and the new Elantra Coupe/GT.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

I have a 2012 vw GTI and I'm pretty happy with it so far. The interiors of the GTI are far superior to the regular Jettas. Soft touch materials everywhere and chrome accents in all the right places. There are no reliability issues to watch out for with the mk6 gtis that I know of.

Some data points for you (personal opinion/experience of course).

- decent gas mileage. (caveat, I have the DSG) I've been getting 25-27mpg this summer with AC on all the time. I also do lots of city driving and have a lead foot. Liberal usage of sport mode when I get the chance. 30+mpg is easily obtainable if you're on the highway a lot.

- I got the 4dr. Plenty of space in the back for adults. I'm about 6' and the person sitting behind me still has room. The hatchback is also super convenient if you ever need to move cargo. You can fit a suprising amount of crap back there with the seats down. Also super easy to park since the car is a bit short.

- I love the steering/handling. I especially love the steering wheel. LOVE. Seriously, go test drive one.

- seats are nice. Good amount of bolstering. Supposedly not that comfortable if you have thick thighs (or are a big dude), but i'm about normal sized and they're nice and comfy for me. Not everyone likes the plaid, but I think it looks nice.

- enough power. Probably the weakest of the hot hatch segment(ms3/st/wrx), but more than enough oomph for a bit of fun. I guess the benefit is better mileage and low torque steer. If you really need more power you can get a $500 stage 1 tune.

- sport suspension + low profile tires means it's a bit rough in the Chicago potholes, but I've taken a few long roadtrips and it's been perfectly comfortable. Plenty fine for a daily driver.

Thanks for the input. I'll check them out but looking online the plaid is really ugly IMO. But if it drives well and is the right price I can overlook that