NBA MVP.

[tfinch2]

Originally posted by: Azndude2190
All i'm saying is basically if anyone other than Kobe wins MVP...he got robbed...it was his season.Nash already won one last year.

So what if LeBron James wins MVP? His team has won more games than the Lakers, and except for points per game, his important statistics are better than Kobe's. More assists, rebounds, blocks, steals, better FG and 3 PT FG percentage.

Will Kobe still be robbed?

 

[Ophir]

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: Azndude2190
I rarely watch BSPN...I've watched every single Laker game up till now.Even though Kobe is playing like God right now he can only do so much when most of his teamates shouldnt even be in this league right now or are rookies.Also the Lakers have suffered from injuries to one of their key guys in Mihm and Profit went out with a injury early in the season.

Azndude, you have no concept of the "role player". Just because a player does not score 20 a game does not mean they should not be in the league. I mean, look at the Bulls from the 90's. They had Jordan and Pippen (about the same talent level as Bryant and Odom), and the rest of the team was role players. They didn't even have someone like Parker who can pick up the slack even more. I'm sorry to let you know that the Laker roster actually has pretty good talent, it's just that Kobe is too selfish to exploit it like Jordan was able to with the role players on the Bulls.

What talent? Are you seriously going to say that Smush Parker is a solid player (pre-laker ave 6 PPG)? Chris Mihm? Kwame Brown? Luke Walton? Look at the list I posted and point to another player that would start for any of the elite teams.

C'mon. It's one thing to dislike a guy, it's another to ignore what he's done.

 

[Azndude2190]

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: Azndude2190
All i'm saying is basically if anyone other than Kobe wins MVP...he got robbed...it was his season.Nash already won one last year.

So what if LeBron James wins MVP? His team has won more games than the Lakers, and except for points per game, his important statistics are better than Kobe's. More assists, rebounds, blocks, steals, better FG and 3 PT FG percentage.

Will Kobe still be robbed?

Yes.Yes Kobe Bryant will be robbed of the MVP.Its just not fair.I feel for Kobe...all the things he had to go through in the past 2-3 years...and have the media still hate on him...its disgusting.

 

[tfinch2]

Originally posted by: Azndude2190

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: Azndude2190
All i'm saying is basically if anyone other than Kobe wins MVP...he got robbed...it was his season.Nash already won one last year.

So what if LeBron James wins MVP? His team has won more games than the Lakers, and except for points per game, his important statistics are better than Kobe's. More assists, rebounds, blocks, steals, better FG and 3 PT FG percentage.

Will Kobe still be robbed?

Yes.Yes Kobe Bryant will be robbed of the MVP.Its just not fair.I feel for Kobe...all the things he had to go through in the past 2-3 years.

LOL that shows how much of a fanboy you are. This isn't about if he raped the white girl or not, drama with his wife, whatever, this is about performance on the court.

 

[ntdz]

Easy pick for me, Lebron. 3rd player in NBA history to average 30 points, 7 rebounds, 7 assists in a season (he's actually averaging 33 points, 8 rebounds, 7 assists -- absolutely incredible, and he's 21!). Very impressive, he does it all.

 

[Ophir]

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: Azndude2190
All i'm saying is basically if anyone other than Kobe wins MVP...he got robbed...it was his season.Nash already won one last year.

So what if LeBron James wins MVP? His team has won more games than the Lakers, and except for points per game, his important statistics are better than Kobe's. More assists, rebounds, blocks, steals, better FG and 3 PT FG percentage.

Will Kobe still be robbed?

I would say it's a toss up between Kobe and Lebron. Lebron is more impressive in those stats, but Kobe has the highest 4th quarter scoring average (9.8 PPG) since they starting measuring in 1996 -- and he's sat out multiple 4th quarters. The next closest this year is AI with 8.1. He is also a far superior defender and clutch player. Lebron is getting better at the end, but Kobe is king in that department.

All in all I say it's a wash between Kobe and Lebron and Nash ends up winning it.

 

[Azndude2190]

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: Azndude2190

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: Azndude2190
All i'm saying is basically if anyone other than Kobe wins MVP...he got robbed...it was his season.Nash already won one last year.

So what if LeBron James wins MVP? His team has won more games than the Lakers, and except for points per game, his important statistics are better than Kobe's. More assists, rebounds, blocks, steals, better FG and 3 PT FG percentage.

Will Kobe still be robbed?

Yes.Yes Kobe Bryant will be robbed of the MVP.Its just not fair.I feel for Kobe...all the things he had to go through in the past 2-3 years.

LOL that shows how much of a fanboy you are. This isn't about if he raped the white girl or not, drama with his wife, whatever, this is about performance on the court.

I've never said anything about the trial or his wife did I?I was specifically referring to the breakup of the Laker dynasty and the departure of Oneal and how Kobe single handly has to carry this team.So what if i'm a fanboy?Whats your point?

 

[drum]

Nash. but guarantee you kobe wins

 

[Stojakapimp]

Kobe is probably the most skillfull player in the NBA right now, but MVP's should generally make their team good. Ending up in the 7th spot isn't all that great, but we'll have to wait and see how they do in the playoffs.

 

[drum]

Originally posted by: Stojakapimp
Kobe is probably the most skillfull player in the NBA right now, but MVP's should generally make their team good. Ending up in the 7th spot isn't all that great, but we'll have to wait and see how they do in the playoffs.

exactly, but its going to be a popularity contest as usual

 

[Azndude2190]

Originally posted by: Stojakapimp
Kobe is probably the most skillfull player in the NBA right now, but MVP's should generally make their team good. Ending up in the 7th spot isn't all that great, but we'll have to wait and see how they do in the playoffs.

But you have to look at where the Lakers were prior to this season...I mean they werent dead last in the NBA but they were pretty bad to get a lotto pick

 

[DanTMWTMP]

Can't believe people are voting for Nash. Yes, he's a phenominal player, but I don't think he's still as good as Kidd when Kidd was going crazy. Nash is faster though.

I think Nowitzki's and Lebron's efforts outweigh what Nash has done, therefore I think Kobe, Nowitzki, and Lebron should be the 3 front runners to win the award.

If non of those three win, then i'd be pretty surprised.

 

[maddogchen]

kobe one ups Lebron because of his defense. But thats it. Lebron involves his teamates more and gets triple doubles. In the end if its close between the two, it will come down to who likes who more, and Lebron will win.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: DanTMWTMP
Can't believe people are voting for Nash. Yes, he's a phenominal player, but I don't think he's still as good as Kidd when Kidd was going crazy. Nash is faster though.

I think Nowitzki's and Lebron's efforts outweigh what Nash has done, therefore I think Kobe, Nowitzki, and Lebron should be the 3 front runners to win the award.

If non of those three win, then i'd be pretty surprised.

Although Dirk and Lebron are having career years, it should be Nash. He won MVP last year when his team won 60+ games, but this year all he has is Marion and won 53 w/out Amare. He is better this year than last.

Read: Text

I couldn't imagine how, even with Shawn Marion, Nash's team could finish even .500 with Raja Bell and Boris Diaw and Leandro Barbosa and Eddie House and James Jones playing significant minutes.

and

Think about this: The Phoenix Suns have made an NBA record 824 3s. And they lead the league in 3-point percentage at 39.8. So they're making 3s almost as well as a lot of teams make 2s. That's mostly because of Nash.

and


Book it: If Nash had played for the Lakers this season, and Kobe had played for the Suns, the Lakers would be the second seed and the Suns would have missed the playoffs.

Nash would turn Lamar Odom into Marion (if not more) and all of a sudden Smush Parker and Devean George and Luke Walton and Sasha Vujacic would start running and spotting up and draining 3s, and Kwame Brown and Brian Cook would outsprint other postmen for thundering dunks, and the Lakers would actually look like they were having fun playing basketball.

When you play with Nash, you know you're going to consistently get the ball exactly where you're best with it -- and when you're most open. Nash is a 12-man team. Kobe is a one-man show. Nash needs teammates. Kobe needs a stage.

 

[iamme]

if Nash, why not Billups?

Nash = offensive PG, liability on defense, 4th or 5th best team in the NBA, without him the Suns aren't nearly as good

Chauncey = well rounded PG, all-defensive 2nd team last season, best record in the NBA, without him the Pistons aren't nearly as good

honestly, i don't think either will win.....but if people are quick to throw out Nash's name, i think Chauncey deserves some love.

 

[Hammerhead]

Originally posted by: iamme
if Nash, why not Billups?

Nash = offensive PG, liability on defense, 4th or 5th best team in the NBA, without him the Suns aren't nearly as good

Chauncey = well rounded PG, all-defensive 2nd team last season, best record in the NBA, without him the Pistons aren't nearly as good

honestly, i don't think either will win.....but if people are quick to throw out Nash's name, i think Chauncey deserves some love.

then why not iverson

 

[iamme]

Originally posted by: Hammerhead

Originally posted by: iamme
if Nash, why not Billups?

Nash = offensive PG, liability on defense, 4th or 5th best team in the NBA, without him the Suns aren't nearly as good

Chauncey = well rounded PG, all-defensive 2nd team last season, best record in the NBA, without him the Pistons aren't nearly as good

honestly, i don't think either will win.....but if people are quick to throw out Nash's name, i think Chauncey deserves some love.

then why not iverson

using my simplistic formula:

Iverson = awesome offensive PG, average defense at best, lottery team, without him the Sixer suck

he's certainly valuable to the Sixers, but IMO, you just can't give the MVP to a lottery team.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Ron Artest. His acquisition turned a team's season completely around.

 

[NeoV]

For a change, there are actually some very good posts in here.

I think before you get into who should win the MVP this year, you have to define the award. If it's the best individual performance by a player this year, I think LeBron and Kobe are really the only 2 possible choices. If it's the best player on a team that might win a championship, you almost eliminate those 2 from the running.

I like Steve Nash, I really do, but to be frank I don't quite understand the obsession with him these past 2 seasons. The Suns play offense differently than the rest of the league - this is due to their coach and his offensive approach, and yes, Nash fits into this system very well, but I'm confident that the Suns would be similar to what they are today with Jason Kidd, Billups, or a few other players running the point. Nash doesn't turn James Jones into a solid player, this offense does. Boris Diow was playing guard in Atlanta - Steve Nash hasn't transformed him, playing the proper position has, and the fact that he's more athletic than just about every player guarding him.

To say that the Lakers would be the #2 seed if he and Kobe traded teams is just plain stupid, and to say that the Suns have made an NBA record number of 3's because of Nash is ignoring the style the Suns play altogether.

Was Steve Nash an MVP candidate with the Mavericks? Not really, and I don't think he's magically gotten any better. I think this is the equivalent of the spread offense in NCAA football making QB's look much better than they are. Again, I'm not knocking Nash, he's a very good player, I just don't think he's all of a sudden the NBA MVP, this year or last year. This is also a system that made people think Q. Richardson was a good player, and he can't get off the bench for the Knicks, the biggest joke of a team in the NBA.

LeBron has the Cavs as the East's #4 seed, and Larry Hughes missed the majority of the 2nd half of the season (agree with some earlied posters about the Cavs-Heat game, one of the best games I've seen in years), and the Cav's roster isn't exactly all-star stocked.

Head to head, stat-wise, (ppg, rbg, apg, spg, bpg)
Kobe is 35.4/5.3/4.5/1.82/.38
LBJ is 31.4/7.6.6/1.56/.84

Points and Steals to Kobe, rebounds, assists, blocks to LeBron

FG% - Kobe is .449, LeBron is .480, FT% Kobe .849, LeBron .738

3pt% - Kobe is .346, LeBron is .335

Also keep in mind that Kobe averages 32 shots per 48 minutes, LeBron averages 26 - so I think it's fair to say that LeBron would at least match Kobe's ppg if he was jacking up 5 or 6 more shots a night.

Thus, my MVP votes are in this order: LeBron, Kobe, Dirk

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: iamme
if Nash, why not Billups?

Nash = offensive PG, liability on defense, 4th or 5th best team in the NBA, without him the Suns aren't nearly as good

Chauncey = well rounded PG, all-defensive 2nd team last season, best record in the NBA, without him the Pistons aren't nearly as good

honestly, i don't think either will win.....but if people are quick to throw out Nash's name, i think Chauncey deserves some love.

The main reason is because Nash has led a team of no names to 53 wins, and Chauncey's team is chock full of all star caliber players. Could you honestly say that the Suns would have 53 wins if you replaced Chauncey with Nash?

Individually, Nash's stats are more impressive than Chauncey. He's avging a double double with more pts (.4) and assists (1.8), rebounds (1), and is shooting 9.2% higher FG% at 51% (big men like Gasol, Duncan, Dirk, and Carmelo don't even shoot this which shows that Nash is smart enough to only take high % shots).

Their last game head to head (which doesn't mean much but was recent to I'll use that as an example), Chauncey had a better game toe to toe, but look at the final box score. The All Star Pistons won by only 7, allowed the Suns to score 102 on their vaunted defense, were losing by 14 at the half, and the Suns shot only 6 of 21 from 3pt land (Nash only 1-5). The Suns are contending with the best team in the league with virtually 3 scrubs in their starting lineup.

 

[wyvrn]

Wow. Kobe isn't even in my top 5 list for MVP. Good thing nobody here actually gets a vote.

 

[iamme]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: iamme
if Nash, why not Billups?

Nash = offensive PG, liability on defense, 4th or 5th best team in the NBA, without him the Suns aren't nearly as good

Chauncey = well rounded PG, all-defensive 2nd team last season, best record in the NBA, without him the Pistons aren't nearly as good

honestly, i don't think either will win.....but if people are quick to throw out Nash's name, i think Chauncey deserves some love.

The main reason is because Nash has led a team of no names to 53 wins, and Chauncey's team is chock full of all star caliber players. Could you honestly say that the Suns would have 53 wins if you replaced Chauncey with Nash?

hell yeah, i think they could have just as good of a chance.

Individually, Nash's stats are more impressive than Chauncey. He's avging a double double with more pts (.4) and assists (1.8), rebounds (1), and is shooting 9.2% higher FG% at 51% (big men like Gasol, Duncan, Dirk, and Carmelo don't even shoot this which shows that Nash is smart enough to only take high % shots).

agreed that Nash puts up better offensive numbers. but like i said above, i think chauncey should get some credit for having good offensive numbers AND being a very good defender. whereas Nash doesn't play D.

Their last game head to head (which doesn't mean much but was recent to I'll use that as an example), Chauncey had a better game toe to toe, but look at the final box score. The All Star Pistons won by only 7, allowed the Suns to score 102 on their vaunted defense, were losing by 14 at the half, and the Suns shot only 6 of 21 from 3pt land (Nash only 1-5). The Suns are contending with the best team in the league with virtually 3 scrubs in their starting lineup.

eh, the Pistons won AND they held the Suns 6 points under their season average. plus, the held the Suns to 6-21 three point shooting....not sure how this is an example of how good Nash is.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: NeoV
For a change, there are actually some very good posts in here.

I think before you get into who should win the MVP this year, you have to define the award. If it's the best individual performance by a player this year, I think LeBron and Kobe are really the only 2 possible choices. If it's the best player on a team that might win a championship, you almost eliminate those 2 from the running.

I like Steve Nash, I really do, but to be frank I don't quite understand the obsession with him these past 2 seasons. The Suns play offense differently than the rest of the league - this is due to their coach and his offensive approach, and yes, Nash fits into this system very well, but I'm confident that the Suns would be similar to what they are today with Jason Kidd, Billups, or a few other players running the point. Nash doesn't turn James Jones into a solid player, this offense does. Boris Diow was playing guard in Atlanta - Steve Nash hasn't transformed him, playing the proper position has, and the fact that he's more athletic than just about every player guarding him.

To say that the Lakers would be the #2 seed if he and Kobe traded teams is just plain stupid, and to say that the Suns have made an NBA record number of 3's because of Nash is ignoring the style the Suns play altogether.

Was Steve Nash an MVP candidate with the Mavericks? Not really, and I don't think he's magically gotten any better. I think this is the equivalent of the spread offense in NCAA football making QB's look much better than they are. Again, I'm not knocking Nash, he's a very good player, I just don't think he's all of a sudden the NBA MVP, this year or last year. This is also a system that made people think Q. Richardson was a good player, and he can't get off the bench for the Knicks, the biggest joke of a team in the NBA.

LeBron has the Cavs as the East's #4 seed, and Larry Hughes missed the majority of the 2nd half of the season (agree with some earlied posters about the Cavs-Heat game, one of the best games I've seen in years), and the Cav's roster isn't exactly all-star stocked.

Head to head, stat-wise, (ppg, rbg, apg, spg, bpg)
Kobe is 35.4/5.3/4.5/1.82/.38
LBJ is 31.4/7.6.6/1.56/.84

Points and Steals to Kobe, rebounds, assists, blocks to LeBron

FG% - Kobe is .449, LeBron is .480, FT% Kobe .849, LeBron .738

3pt% - Kobe is .346, LeBron is .335

Also keep in mind that Kobe averages 32 shots per 48 minutes, LeBron averages 26 - so I think it's fair to say that LeBron would at least match Kobe's ppg if he was jacking up 5 or 6 more shots a night.

Thus, my MVP votes are in this order: LeBron, Kobe, Dirk

I don't agree that your argument for the system making the player, that's absurd. The Suns system doesn't find the open man on the arc, Nash does. The system doesn't make the 3pters, the Suns do. Your reasoning is absolutely absurd IMO. And to say that Chauncey or Kidd could even run a constant run and gun offense isn't factual either. I just saw an interview with Billups where he admitted that Nash is a better passer, and "plays with more energy". There is no guarantee that Billups could even play at such a high energy level in the Suns system and average 35.5 minutes like Nash. If anything, you could argue that the Suns get more looks in a faster offense (hence slightly inflated stats vice slower offenses who don't take as many shots per game), but that has nothing to do with who is finding the open man, let alone draining the shots. It makes it even more impressive that Nash is shooting 51% FG (that's a lot higher than Kobe last I checked) in a high powered offense that gets more shots than traditional half court teams.

You're right, Nash wasn't an MVP candidate with the Mavs but he was younger then and his stats better every year, MVP or not. With the same reasoning you could say: "well Kobe wasn't an MVP candidate when they won their titles". Players mature, and get better. A team's offensive system does nothing to make them "better". Why would you say that Nash wasn't any better than last year (in the same "system") when his stats clearly say otherwise? Last I checked: all time highs in FG%, FT%, reb, and ppg. lol

 

[Lorax]

don't really like kobe (nor hate him), but i also read sportsguy's article and completely agree. marc cuban has something on his blog (blogmaverick.com) about why dirk should be MVP, but all his criteria apply more to kobe.

 

[iamme]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
I don't agree that your argument for the system making the player, that's absurd. The Suns system doesn't find the open man on the arc, Nash does. The system doesn't make the 3pters, the Suns do. Your reasoning is absolutely absurd IMO. And to say that Chauncey or Kidd could even run a constant run and gun offense isn't factual either. I just saw an interview with Billups where he admitted that Nash is a better passer, and "plays with more energy". There is no guarantee that Billups could even play at such a high energy level in the Suns system and average 35.5 minutes like Nash. If anything, you could argue that the Suns get more looks in a faster offense (hence slightly inflated stats vice slower offenses who don't take as many shots per game), but that has nothing to do with who is finding the open man, let alone draining the shots. It makes it even more impressive that Nash is shooting 51% FG (that's a lot higher than Kobe last I checked) in a high powered offense that gets more shots than traditional half court teams.

on the same token, put Nash on the Pistons, where he'd be expected to play defense, and would the Pistons be a 64 win team? noooo way. therefore, it CAN be argued that Nash thrives because of the offensive system that the Suns implemented.

btw, check out rest of the Suns like Raja Bell and Boris Diaw who's assists jumped because of the Sun's system. more evidence of the system helping players