Navy Intercepts Russian Bombers

[ProfJohn]

Come on RichardE use your brain.

Within a week the sons and daughters and brothers/sister etc of everyone on that ship will have a picture of the bombers flying over head of being chased by their planes. There is nothing you can do to stop such a thing.

My dad had pictures of the same thing from the 1970s.

When the Cole was bombed I had close up pictures of the side of the hull e-mailed to me from friends in the Navy. Top secret stuff that the military didn?t want civilians and the media to see.

It?s no big deal really? oh someone?s at the door, gotta go.

 

[MadRat]

They should tag those old bombers that buzz carriers with large transponders (like scientists would that study a whale) so they beep all the way home. Now that would be embarrassing to the Bear crew...

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
The reason I say this is the "official speaking on anonymity because the report is secret". Obviously its not THAT secret.

Obviously!

I am getting sick and g'damn tired of government and military employees leaking classified information without a second thought.

If I knew the leakers, I'd personally volunteer to put a bullet in their skulls.

bah...

As for the alleged incident, tit-for-tat taunting amongst the powerful nations has been going on forever.

/thread

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: eskimospy
I like how threads like this really bring out the crazies. You guys realize that things like this happen all the time, right? I remember when the Constellation battle group that my ship was a part of went by India, we found out we were being trailed and poked at by Indian diesel subs as we went by. Countries like to see what they can get away with, and while I certainly think we shouldn't just lay down in front of them and let them, saying that we should shoot them down is insanity. You would provoke an international incident for nothing else then your foolish pride. That's shameful.

Also good to see that people want to hang our military officers for letting this Super Secret out. Not that I'm saying people should disregard classifications, but do you guys have any idea what sort of things get classified secret? Not only is this not a big deal, but I've seen an awful lot of other stupid and obvious data stamped secret in my time.

Slippery slope. You let out small secrets the next somewhat bigger secret doesn't seem as bad. If you let out any classified secrets you should be charged with treason, too much of that crap the last 10-20 years.

Well that's why there are classification levels...and one of them is supposed to be UNCLASSIFIED. The problem is that the slippery slope works both ways, it starts with things absolutely vital to national security and then ends with directions to the bathroom getting stamped TOP SECRET.

Not that leaking is a solution, but lost in these threads with everyone complaining about leaks seems to be the equally large problem of this secrecy fetish the government has. I have no problem with things being secret when they need to be, and I have no problem throwing the book at people who violate the agreement they signed when they received a clearance, but I think the system could maybe use a little revamping as well. Just a thought.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
The reason I say this is the "official speaking on anonymity because the report is secret". Obviously its not THAT secret.

Obviously!

I am getting sick and g'damn tired of government and military employees leaking classified information without a second thought.

If I knew the leakers, I'd personally volunteer to put a bullet in their skulls.
...

Yeah...I don't quite get it either. Of course the worst offenders by far are our esteemed elected representatives, who don't seem to know the meaning of the phrase "keep it to yourself". I'd bet the few hundred people on capitol hill leak way more classified information than everyone in the intelligence and military communities combined.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
The reason I say this is the "official speaking on anonymity because the report is secret". Obviously its not THAT secret.

Obviously!

I am getting sick and g'damn tired of government and military employees leaking classified information without a second thought.

If I knew the leakers, I'd personally volunteer to put a bullet in their skulls.
...

Yeah...I don't quite get it either. Of course the worst offenders by far are our esteemed elected representatives, who don't seem to know the meaning of the phrase "keep it to yourself". I'd bet the few hundred people on capitol hill leak way more classified information than everyone in the intelligence and military communities combined.

I really doubt a old prop driven russian bomber making a flyby is classified. IF anything the russians should be embarrassed for still flying this thing.

 

[HeXploiT]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Navy Intercepts Russian Bombers

WASHINGTON (AP) ? U.S. fighter planes intercepted two Russian bombers, including one that buzzed an American aircraft carrier in the western Pacific during the weekend, The Associated Press has learned.

A U.S. military official says that one Russian Tupolev 95 flew directly over the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz twice, at a low altitude of about 2,000 feet, while another bomber circled about 58 miles out. The official was speaking on condition of anonymity because the reports on the flights were classified as secret.

Looks like other nations are starting to get cocky with us. Or could this just be another attempt at gaining some sort of military objective by the bush administration? The reason I say this is the "official speaking on anonymity because the report is secret". Obviously its not THAT secret.

I live in Alaska. When I was a kid/teenager it was very common for our fighters from
Eelson & Elmendorf air force bases to intercept Russian fighters over U.S. air space. It probably happened once a week.
Basically the old Soviet Union is back under the old school leadership of Vladimir Putin.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
The reason I say this is the "official speaking on anonymity because the report is secret". Obviously its not THAT secret.

Obviously!

I am getting sick and g'damn tired of government and military employees leaking classified information without a second thought.

If I knew the leakers, I'd personally volunteer to put a bullet in their skulls.
...

Yeah...I don't quite get it either. Of course the worst offenders by far are our esteemed elected representatives, who don't seem to know the meaning of the phrase "keep it to yourself". I'd bet the few hundred people on capitol hill leak way more classified information than everyone in the intelligence and military communities combined.

I really doubt a old prop driven russian bomber making a flyby is classified. IF anything the russians should be embarrassed for still flying this thing.

Maybe, maybe not...I certainly wouldn't be surprised if it WAS classified.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Perry404

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Navy Intercepts Russian Bombers

WASHINGTON (AP) ? U.S. fighter planes intercepted two Russian bombers, including one that buzzed an American aircraft carrier in the western Pacific during the weekend, The Associated Press has learned.

A U.S. military official says that one Russian Tupolev 95 flew directly over the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz twice, at a low altitude of about 2,000 feet, while another bomber circled about 58 miles out. The official was speaking on condition of anonymity because the reports on the flights were classified as secret.

Looks like other nations are starting to get cocky with us. Or could this just be another attempt at gaining some sort of military objective by the bush administration? The reason I say this is the "official speaking on anonymity because the report is secret". Obviously its not THAT secret.

I live in Alaska. When I was a kid/teenager it was very common for our fighters from
Eelson & Elmendorf air force bases to intercept Russian fighters over U.S. air space. It probably happened once a week.
Basically the old Soviet Union is back under the old school leadership of Vladimir Putin.

Good, because that worked out really well for Russia the last time around :roll:

Seriously, it's like the Russians are just too dumb to figure out how to get a real government together. Maybe the problem is that they've never really HAD a free and non-crazy government, but honestly, I'm starting to think they like it.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
The reason I say this is the "official speaking on anonymity because the report is secret". Obviously its not THAT secret.

Obviously!

I am getting sick and g'damn tired of government and military employees leaking classified information without a second thought.

If I knew the leakers, I'd personally volunteer to put a bullet in their skulls.
...

Yeah...I don't quite get it either. Of course the worst offenders by far are our esteemed elected representatives, who don't seem to know the meaning of the phrase "keep it to yourself". I'd bet the few hundred people on capitol hill leak way more classified information than everyone in the intelligence and military communities combined.

true enough..

 

[HeXploiT]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Perry404

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Navy Intercepts Russian Bombers

WASHINGTON (AP) ? U.S. fighter planes intercepted two Russian bombers, including one that buzzed an American aircraft carrier in the western Pacific during the weekend, The Associated Press has learned.

A U.S. military official says that one Russian Tupolev 95 flew directly over the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz twice, at a low altitude of about 2,000 feet, while another bomber circled about 58 miles out. The official was speaking on condition of anonymity because the reports on the flights were classified as secret.

Looks like other nations are starting to get cocky with us. Or could this just be another attempt at gaining some sort of military objective by the bush administration? The reason I say this is the "official speaking on anonymity because the report is secret". Obviously its not THAT secret.

I live in Alaska. When I was a kid/teenager it was very common for our fighters from
Eelson & Elmendorf air force bases to intercept Russian fighters over U.S. air space. It probably happened once a week.
Basically the old Soviet Union is back under the old school leadership of Vladimir Putin.

Good, because that worked out really well for Russia the last time around :roll:

Seriously, it's like the Russians are just too dumb to figure out how to get a real government together. Maybe the problem is that they've never really HAD a free and non-crazy government, but honestly, I'm starting to think they like it.

You talk as if citizen have a say in the matter.
I don't know I suppose they could have a violent uprising but somehow I suspect it would resemble a bloodbath the likes of which hasn't been seen since the 1950's. There was a very short period of time where the Russian government didn't have a stranglehold on the populous and that time has come and gone. Putin has Proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that he will eliminate anyone and everyone who gets in his way. It matters not if you're a world renown journalist, a world champion chess player or a multi billion dollar oil barren who pays a quarter of the nations taxes.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: charrison
IF anything the russians should be embarrassed for still flying this thing.

Yeah, and the idiots keeping the B-52s going should be chastised too!

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: charrison
IF anything the russians should be embarrassed for still flying this thing.

Yeah, and the idiots keeping the B-52s going should be chastised too!

The b-52 is at least jet powered😉

 

[TallBill]

What's worse is a person leaking classified material, and then a news source publishing it. That worries me far more then any antics with the Ruskies. I'm willing to bet that the reports were higher then just "secret" as well.

Btw, I've personally seen much lower classified information appear in the news almost accidently and then disappear. To late on this because it's to big already.

 

[Nebor]

Letting a foreign plane get that close to a trillion dollar war machine is unacceptable. Should have shot them down.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: TallBill
What's worse is a person leaking classified material, and then a news source publishing it. That worries me far more then any antics with the Ruskies. I'm willing to bet that the reports were higher then just "secret" as well.

Btw, I've personally seen much lower classified information appear in the news almost accidently and then disappear. To late on this because it's to big already.

I don't know how much I blame the media. It's different for people with clearances, they signed up for it knowing exactly what they were getting into and promising to protect the classified information they learn. But the media simply can't be held to government secrecy standards if we're going to have a truly free press. Yeah, sometimes this produces unpleasant results, but what's the alternative?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Nebor
Letting a foreign plane get that close to a trillion dollar war machine is unacceptable. Should have shot them down.

What would we have gained?

I can tell you what we would have lost, massive political standing with the world, any remaining diplomatic capital with Russia, their aid in any one of dozens of areas of mutual interest, etc... etc.

Shooting down that plane would have been the absolute stupidest thing we could have done in that situation with the possible exception of the CBG radioing a ballistic missile sub to start nuking Russia's cities.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Nebor
Letting a foreign plane get that close to a trillion dollar war machine is unacceptable. Should have shot them down.

What would we have gained?

I can tell you what we would have lost, massive political standing with the world, any remaining diplomatic capital with Russia, their aid in any one of dozens of areas of mutual interest, etc... etc.

Shooting down that plane would have been the absolute stupidest thing we could have done in that situation with the possible exception of the CBG radioing a ballistic missile sub to start nuking Russia's cities.

The only thing bullies understand is force. You simply can't allow thousands of American servicemen, a trillion dollar air craft carrier, and a full 1/10th of America's ability to project power globally to be endangered like that.

If they had shot it down, the Russians would have said, oh well, we shouldn't have flown our 60's era bomber over their air craft carrier. Now we know the limits.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Nebor
Letting a foreign plane get that close to a trillion dollar war machine is unacceptable. Should have shot them down.

What would we have gained?

I can tell you what we would have lost, massive political standing with the world, any remaining diplomatic capital with Russia, their aid in any one of dozens of areas of mutual interest, etc... etc.

Shooting down that plane would have been the absolute stupidest thing we could have done in that situation with the possible exception of the CBG radioing a ballistic missile sub to start nuking Russia's cities.

The only thing bullies understand is force. You simply can't allow thousands of American servicemen, a trillion dollar air craft carrier, and a full 1/10th of America's ability to project power globally to be endangered like that.

If they had shot it down, the Russians would have said, oh well, we shouldn't have flown our 60's era bomber over their air craft carrier. Now we know the limits.

Nebor, I want you beside me when government tries to take our guns. But imagining you as a military general scares the living shit out of me!

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Nebor
Letting a foreign plane get that close to a trillion dollar war machine is unacceptable. Should have shot them down.

What would we have gained?

I can tell you what we would have lost, massive political standing with the world, any remaining diplomatic capital with Russia, their aid in any one of dozens of areas of mutual interest, etc... etc.

Shooting down that plane would have been the absolute stupidest thing we could have done in that situation with the possible exception of the CBG radioing a ballistic missile sub to start nuking Russia's cities.

The only thing bullies understand is force. You simply can't allow thousands of American servicemen, a trillion dollar air craft carrier, and a full 1/10th of America's ability to project power globally to be endangered like that.

If they had shot it down, the Russians would have said, oh well, we shouldn't have flown our 60's era bomber over their air craft carrier. Now we know the limits.

Yeah right.

First of all a carrier is worth nowhere near a trillion dollars. It runs about $6-10 billion. Add in the air wing, the personnel, everything else, you're probably still not even topping $20 billion. In addition while aircraft carriers are certainly the largest single power projection platforms that we have, a carrier is nowhere close to 1/10th of our ability to project power globally. Nowhere near.

Now, depending on where the Nimitz CBG really was, (ie. within range of significant Russian air assets), shooting down those planes could possibly have provoked a Russian response... one which would ACTUALLY endanger the carrier and its support ships. I don't think the Russians would have responded that way, but what if they had someone as crazy as you in charge over there? Wars have started over less.

If nothing else we would have caused a major diplomatic incident over nothing. Do you want to know what really protects our CBG in the western pacific? I'll give you a hint, it's not their unbeatable CAP; it's the goodwill of the nations that we deal with over there. You would endanger that for nothing more then to teach the Russians some sort of macho lesson.

You know its a dark day when the course of foreign policy action taken by the Bush administration is actually saner then one someone else is promoting. Thank god you aren't in charge because what you're suggesting isn't just stupid, it's dangerous and it threatens the lives of all those people actually on that ship.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: TallBill
What's worse is a person leaking classified material, and then a news source publishing it. That worries me far more then any antics with the Ruskies. I'm willing to bet that the reports were higher then just "secret" as well.

Btw, I've personally seen much lower classified information appear in the news almost accidently and then disappear. To late on this because it's to big already.

I don't know how much I blame the media. It's different for people with clearances, they signed up for it knowing exactly what they were getting into and promising to protect the classified information they learn. But the media simply can't be held to government secrecy standards if we're going to have a truly free press. Yeah, sometimes this produces unpleasant results, but what's the alternative?

No, I agree with you. The majority of the blame lies on the blabbermouth.

 

[Red Dawn]

Compared to the Cold War era when Soviet and US Navy Ships use to routinely collide with each other this is nothing.

 

[piasabird]

I am surprised they did not fire a cruise missle or something like that to take it out. I guess no guts, no glory. What would the commander have said if they opened the bomb bay doors?

Duhh. . . I didnt think they would acutally bomb us?

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: Socio
I think they know we are stretched to the limit right now with Afghanistan and Iraq so they can be real brave and taunt us the freaking cowards.

I think we should warn them that if they come near and US ship, base, or US mainland is would be construed as an act of aggression against us and would be met with equal aggression i.e shot down no questions.

This is why people like you arent in charge of the military

 

[Genx87]

They do this all the time. I wouldnt be surprised if these pilots know and email each other.