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Navy Intercepts Russian Bombers

N

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Navy Intercepts Russian Bombers

WASHINGTON (AP) ? U.S. fighter planes intercepted two Russian bombers, including one that buzzed an American aircraft carrier in the western Pacific during the weekend, The Associated Press has learned.

A U.S. military official says that one Russian Tupolev 95 flew directly over the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz twice, at a low altitude of about 2,000 feet, while another bomber circled about 58 miles out. The official was speaking on condition of anonymity because the reports on the flights were classified as secret.
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Looks like other nations are starting to get cocky with us. Or could this just be another attempt at gaining some sort of military objective by the bush administration? The reason I say this is the "official speaking on anonymity because the report is secret". Obviously its not THAT secret.
 
When your military is stretched so thin in nations where there is very little threat to the domestic population; you will get the other militarized nations playing games to help determine the capability and response time of the equipment knowing little backlash will come of it.
 
Yeah, nations like do this as some sort of dick waving or something. I remember a few years ago China was doing naval maneuvers and the USA sent a carrier task force over just to fuck with their heads.
 
The paranoia of the Paul supporters is scary.

What exactly is the secret military objective of Bush created by this story? Is he upset at this secret plans to invade Iran have been leaked by truthout.org and is thus coming up with plans to invade Russia instead?


BTW if you think this is something you should read the stories about what our subs and their subs did to each other.
 
They're in international waters and they're not really in any danger. This is just Putin saying "Putin e-peen=e-peen++," not much else.
 
Originally posted by: Stunt
When your military is stretched so thin in nations where there is very little threat to the domestic population; you will get the other militarized nations playing games to help determine the capability and response time of the equipment knowing little backlash will come of it.
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Oh please... the Soviets did this type of stuff for 50+ years during the cold war. It has nothing to do with our military being stretched thin.

In the 80s we tapped soviet communications lines and then ran fleet exercises to see how the Soviets would respond.
 
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The paranoia of the Paul supporters is scary.

What exactly is the secret military objective of Bush created by this story? Is he upset at this secret plans to invade Iran have been leaked by truthout.org and is thus coming up with plans to invade Russia instead?


BTW if you think this is something you should read the stories about what our subs and their subs did to each other.
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Nope its not paranoia. Although from a bush supporter I expect it to be portrayed as such.

It's called being critical. With past experiences with said government, we have a right to be.
 
Military streched thin? lol riiight. They scrambled jets and intercepted the bombers 50 miles from the carrier, they could've shot them down if they wanted/needed to.
 
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Navy Intercepts Russian Bombers

WASHINGTON (AP) ? U.S. fighter planes intercepted two Russian bombers, including one that buzzed an American aircraft carrier in the western Pacific during the weekend, The Associated Press has learned.

A U.S. military official says that one Russian Tupolev 95 flew directly over the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz twice, at a low altitude of about 2,000 feet, while another bomber circled about 58 miles out. The official was speaking on condition of anonymity because the reports on the flights were classified as secret.
Click to expand...

Looks like other nations are starting to get cocky with us. Or could this just be another attempt at gaining some sort of military objective by the bush administration? The reason I say this is the "official speaking on anonymity because the report is secret". Obviously its not THAT secret.
Click to expand...

Didn't we already learn a lesson about taunting Tigers? 🙂

 
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The paranoia of the Paul supporters is scary.

What exactly is the secret military objective of Bush created by this story? Is he upset at this secret plans to invade Iran have been leaked by truthout.org and is thus coming up with plans to invade Russia instead?


BTW if you think this is something you should read the stories about what our subs and their subs did to each other.
Click to expand...
Nope its not paranoia. Although from a bush supporter I expect it to be portrayed as such.

It's called being critical. With past experiences with said government, we have a right to be.
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So what is Bush's objective? Why would he 'create' this incident since you imply that it might not have actually happened?

Instead of just throwing out a charge why not give us a reason to believe it might be true.
 
I think they know we are stretched to the limit right now with Afghanistan and Iraq so they can be real brave and taunt us the freaking cowards.

I think we should warn them that if they come near and US ship, base, or US mainland is would be construed as an act of aggression against us and would be met with equal aggression i.e shot down no questions.
 
Jesus fucking christ. Bigwigs and their 1@#% agendas. What reasons do we have to war with russia or china? NONE.
 
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The paranoia of the Paul supporters is scary.

What exactly is the secret military objective of Bush created by this story? Is he upset at this secret plans to invade Iran have been leaked by truthout.org and is thus coming up with plans to invade Russia instead?


BTW if you think this is something you should read the stories about what our subs and their subs did to each other.
Click to expand...
Nope its not paranoia. Although from a bush supporter I expect it to be portrayed as such.

It's called being critical. With past experiences with said government, we have a right to be.
Click to expand...
So what is Bush's objective? Why would he 'create' this incident since you imply that it might not have actually happened?

Instead of just throwing out a charge why not give us a reason to believe it might be true.
Click to expand...

Again, critical thinking is not bad, its actually a lot more healthy than believing everything you are told. Especially from the current administration.

What would his objective be? Why would he create (Iraq-Al Qaeda?) this incident? Good questions. What have you come up with? I don't know personally.
 
I like how threads like this really bring out the crazies. You guys realize that things like this happen all the time, right? I remember when the Constellation battle group that my ship was a part of went by India, we found out we were being trailed and poked at by Indian diesel subs as we went by. Countries like to see what they can get away with, and while I certainly think we shouldn't just lay down in front of them and let them, saying that we should shoot them down is insanity. You would provoke an international incident for nothing else then your foolish pride. That's shameful.

Also good to see that people want to hang our military officers for letting this Super Secret out. Not that I'm saying people should disregard classifications, but do you guys have any idea what sort of things get classified secret? Not only is this not a big deal, but I've seen an awful lot of other stupid and obvious data stamped secret in my time.
 
Originally posted by: eskimospy
I like how threads like this really bring out the crazies. You guys realize that things like this happen all the time, right? I remember when the Constellation battle group that my ship was a part of went by India, we found out we were being trailed and poked at by Indian diesel subs as we went by. Countries like to see what they can get away with, and while I certainly think we shouldn't just lay down in front of them and let them, saying that we should shoot them down is insanity. You would provoke an international incident for nothing else then your foolish pride. That's shameful.

Also good to see that people want to hang our military officers for letting this Super Secret out. Not that I'm saying people should disregard classifications, but do you guys have any idea what sort of things get classified secret? Not only is this not a big deal, but I've seen an awful lot of other stupid and obvious data stamped secret in my time.
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Slippery slope. You let out small secrets the next somewhat bigger secret doesn't seem as bad. If you let out any classified secrets you should be charged with treason, too much of that crap the last 10-20 years.
 
Originally posted by: RichardE

Slippery slope. You let out small secrets the next somewhat bigger secret doesn't seem as bad. If you let out any classified secrets you should be charged with treason, too much of that crap the last 10-20 years.
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It is a slippery slope, I agree. I still think if you knew the extent of what the military deems classified you would realize that charging every person who lets something out with treason would depopulate the military very quickly. In fact, I'd be you'd be amazed at how much 'classified' information you already know yourself. Hell, I used to see the message traffic with AP news and sports scores stamped 'confidential'. Hahahaha.
 
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: RichardE

Slippery slope. You let out small secrets the next somewhat bigger secret doesn't seem as bad. If you let out any classified secrets you should be charged with treason, too much of that crap the last 10-20 years.
Click to expand...

It is a slippery slope, I agree. I still think if you knew the extent of what the military deems classified you would realize that charging every person who lets something out with treason would depopulate the military very quickly. In fact, I'd be you'd be amazed at how much 'classified' information you already know yourself. Hell, I used to see the message traffic with AP news and sports scores stamped 'confidential'. Hahahaha.
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I think a pretty stern punishment of leaking classified information would quickly take care of the lenient attitude you take towards it. I'm not sure if I find it more pathetic that people are taking it amongst themselves to release what they think is useless classified data or the fact that people think that is ok.
 
Originally posted by: eskimospy
I like how threads like this really bring out the crazies. You guys realize that things like this happen all the time, right? I remember when the Constellation battle group that my ship was a part of went by India, we found out we were being trailed and poked at by Indian diesel subs as we went by. Countries like to see what they can get away with, and while I certainly think we shouldn't just lay down in front of them and let them, saying that we should shoot them down is insanity. You would provoke an international incident for nothing else then your foolish pride. That's shameful.
Click to expand...

It is no different than the bully down the street, you let him pick on you, he will pick more, then punch you, take your money, your watch and just keep pushing that envelope more and more.

Would it not be better just to punch the fool in the nose early on letting him know he will get the same every time he tries something with you?

At least that philosophy has worked for me in the past I can tell you that much.


 
Originally posted by: RichardE

I think a pretty stern punishment of leaking classified information would quickly take care of the lenient attitude you take towards it. I'm not sure if I find it more pathetic that people are taking it amongst themselves to release what they think is useless classified data or the fact that people think that is ok.
Click to expand...

The punishments are already stern, there's just no way to control it. Simply put, there's so many things classified 'secret' that so many people see it would be impossible to track down a leak. There is a general attempt to limit the spread of this information, but everyone in the military knows that there's no real way to do it. The requirements for people to have that information are too broad... you will never keep a secret that 1000 people know.

If you check to see how the military handles things that are actually important, you'll see it is much different then the way they handle things like bombers flying near the carrier. There are all sorts of controls and compartmentalization to stop the leaks of actually valuable material. The military itself takes a lenient attitude towards leaks of this sort (ie. it would never take the time to investigate who did this) because it knows it can't stop them, and that they don't matter.

I guess I am just trying to say that I don't think you know how much material is classified in the military, the reasons for which it is classified, and how they control it. If you did I believe you would understand why this isn't a big deal.
 
Originally posted by: Socio

It is no different than the bully down the street, you let him pick on you, he will pick more, then punch you, take your money, your watch and just keep pushing that envelope more and more.

Would it not be better just to punch the fool in the nose early on letting him know he will get the same every time he tries something with you?

At least that philosophy has worked for me in the past I can tell you that much.
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No, not at all. You are assuming that when we don't shoot down Russia's planes that we have set in motion some sort of unavoidable escalation that will lead to something bad for us. There is no reason to believe this is true, in fact historical precedent between our two countries would prove the exact opposite.

Shooting down another country's military aircraft is an act of war. How do you think we would respond if they did the same to us? If nothing else it would create a diplomatic crisis for no particularly good reason, and no gain for us. It would be an exceptionally foolish policy for us to embark upon because we have nothing to gain, and a lot to lose.
 
Russia is rolling them sleeves up and down, cocky is the word. I am not surprised they did the same thing over Japanese (previously Russian) islands few days ago. Mr Putin announced that Russia was forced into another arms race and they will have all hot new high tech weaponry. Russia now is like KGB without Soviet Union. This very powerful and very capable military industrial complex does not need foreign oil and does not answer to Palitburo or anyone for that matter. No need to get paranoid, I mean Putin did not go Kruschev on us capitalists yet.
 
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: RichardE

I think a pretty stern punishment of leaking classified information would quickly take care of the lenient attitude you take towards it. I'm not sure if I find it more pathetic that people are taking it amongst themselves to release what they think is useless classified data or the fact that people think that is ok.
Click to expand...

The punishments are already stern, there's just no way to control it. Simply put, there's so many things classified 'secret' that so many people see it would be impossible to track down a leak. There is a general attempt to limit the spread of this information, but everyone in the military knows that there's no real way to do it. The requirements for people to have that information are too broad... you will never keep a secret that 1000 people know.

If you check to see how the military handles things that are actually important, you'll see it is much different then the way they handle things like bombers flying near the carrier. There are all sorts of controls and compartmentalization to stop the leaks of actually valuable material. The military itself takes a lenient attitude towards leaks of this sort (ie. it would never take the time to investigate who did this) because it knows it can't stop them, and that they don't matter.

I guess I am just trying to say that I don't think you know how much material is classified in the military, the reasons for which it is classified, and how they control it. If you did I believe you would understand why this isn't a big deal.
Click to expand...

I understand where you are coming from. I'm saying that the effort should be made to stop the attitude that because "well it isn't top secret, and isn't compartmentalized, and more than 50 people know about it, it must be perfectly ok to release it to the press." There should be a effort to change that attitude. You yourself exhibited it with an idea that it should be up to you to listen to your superiors or not with why something is classified. Where does it say "Classified, unless you think its a stupid reason than you can forget about it being classified and tell everyone."

 
Originally posted by: RichardE

I understand where you are coming from. I'm saying that the effort should be made to stop the attitude that because "well it isn't top secret, and isn't compartmentalized, and more than 50 people know about it, it must be perfectly ok to release it to the press." There should be a effort to change that attitude. You yourself exhibited it with an idea that it should be up to you to listen to your superiors or not with why something is classified. Where does it say "Classified, unless you think its a stupid reason than you can forget about it being classified and tell everyone."
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I think I would disagree. What I believe they are truly going for with the classification process is more of a general attitude towards not releasing information. They figure if they can impress upon you the idea of not revealing more pedestrian information that even if you do tell people little things, the idea of keeping things secret is ingrained enough in you to keep the really important things secret. That's just my take on it though.

If we take your impression of things though, then I think the answer is just to render far fewer things classified then we currently do. We make the most absolutely obvious and stupid things classified material these days, such as say... the fact that some bombers flew near our carrier. (something that I guarantee you half the ship, ie. 2500 people, knew in about an hour.) Attempting to make things secret that you can't possibly keep secret in that way would cause people to lose respect for the system of classification.

So, I think the answer is either that the current system is functional and has a built in expectation of certain things being leaked, or we need to radically scale back what we consider classified material.
 
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