National Day in Support of Immigration Reform

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Patrese
It puzzles me a lot to see that things are so different in the USA, even more than in Europe, because Americans are mostly immigrants anyway, just like here in Brazil... OK, USA is a lot richer and attracts a lot more people, but wasn't this richness built by immigrants or immigrant descendents?:Q Come on, there must be a better way to handle with immigrants than "get the hell out of my country, you're all criminals"... 🙁

America welcomes immigrants with open arms. As long as they've legally applied to come into our country. Giving "amnesty" to these illegal aliens would be an affront to the millions of people that have spent an untold amount of time and effort to come into this country legally.

Start cracking down on the businesses that employ illegal aliens. Once the jobs dry up, they'll go back home.

 

[zanieladie]

Originally posted by: Ronstang
If this is a rally in support of ILLEGAL aliens then you can go straight to he....I mean Mexico. If it is against illegal immigration I will be there. I will call the local US Immigration office on monday and ask them why they are not at this rally rounding up the offenders considering they always claim they don't know where these people are.

FTW!

 

[FrustratedUser]

I went through tons and tons of documents and a lot of waiting to come here legally on a visa.... I should've just jumped the boat and swim to the closest beach. It would have been easier. 🙁

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: Patrese
I live in Brazil, I am a Brazilian, but my grandparents are Italian. They got here escaping from Mussolini's army, and I couldn't be any more proud or grateful about the way they were received in Brazil. Today, Brazil still receives its immigrants peacefully, and I'm really proud of it as well, since we're all immigrants anyway, there are only a few indians around the country... Generally, everyone in Brazil thinks just like that: we're really proud about the fact that we receive immigrants well, our culture only gets richer and richer with their presence.

It puzzles me a lot to see that things are so different in the USA, even more than in Europe, because Americans are mostly immigrants anyway, just like here in Brazil... OK, USA is a lot richer and attracts a lot more people, but wasn't this richness built by immigrants or immigrant descendents?:Q Come on, there must be a better way to handle with immigrants than "get the hell out of my country, you're all criminals"... 🙁

Did your parents sneak into brazil? Did they steal social security numbers to get government services and credit?

Things are not different in America. We gladly accept immigrants. Most do not have a problem with the immigrants that come legally, get a green card, pay taxes for the services they use, etc. You are confused between the word illegal and legal.

 

[Patrese]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Patrese
I live in Brazil, I am a Brazilian, but my grandparents are Italian. They got here escaping from Mussolini's army, and I couldn't be any more proud or grateful about the way they were received in Brazil. Today, Brazil still receives its immigrants peacefully, and I'm really proud of it as well, since we're all immigrants anyway, there are only a few indians around the country... Generally, everyone in Brazil thinks just like that: we're really proud about the fact that we receive immigrants well, our culture only gets richer and richer with their presence.

It puzzles me a lot to see that things are so different in the USA, even more than in Europe, because Americans are mostly immigrants anyway, just like here in Brazil... OK, USA is a lot richer and attracts a lot more people, but wasn't this richness built by immigrants or immigrant descendents?:Q Come on, there must be a better way to handle with immigrants than "get the hell out of my country, you're all criminals"... 🙁

Did your family apply for asylum or some other method of legal immigration?

The problem many of us have is with illegal immigrants, not legal immigrants.

No, they escaped from Italy during a period Brazil was also kinda facist (Vargas government, on the 30's), so there could be no way they entered here legally. They were "legalized" some years after, when Brazil entered WW2 with the allies... (long story, Brazilian history is kinda tricky).
Do you have an idea on how hard it is to enter legally on the USA? Even if you're a tourist, it is pretty hard, and it's not only after 9/11: I've been to USA in 1998, legally, and it took about 3 months to get all the papers, and I had to travel 200 miles to go to the US Coulsulate in Sao Paulo, although my town (Belo Horizonte) has 2,5 million people... If it was a little easier, I'm sure there would be a lot less illegals on USA, and a lot less people trying to enter illegaly anyway...

 

[Patrese]

Did your parents sneak into brazil? Did they steal social security numbers to get government services and credit?

Things are not different in America. We gladly accept immigrants. Most do not have a problem with the immigrants that come legally, get a green card, pay taxes for the services they use, etc. You are confused between the word illegal and legal.

No, I'm not: if an immigrant does anything illegal they deserve to be deported. I know a lot of people who would be really happy to pay taxes just like any other American, but they had their visa denied because they're too poor and not educated enough... even if they declare that thay want to be maids, cookers, gardeners and so on... I understand your point about the illegals, but trust me: it is not easy for an immigrant to be legal, even if he wants it a lot and does everything he can to try to get an opportunity of a green card... I respect you all, guys, and maybe I was too harsh on my first post on this thread, but things don't need to be as strict as thay are today... The more restictive the legislation is, the more trouble you're gonna have with illegals...

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Patrese
It puzzles me a lot to see that things are so different in the USA, even more than in Europe, because Americans are mostly immigrants anyway, just like here in Brazil... OK, USA is a lot richer and attracts a lot more people, but wasn't this richness built by immigrants or immigrant descendents?:Q Come on, there must be a better way to handle with immigrants than "get the hell out of my country, you're all criminals"... 🙁

immigrants who were here legally and had to go through far more scrutiny than current ones do.

the tests on display at ellis island would probably be unconscionable today

 

[CPA]

Oh great, seeing as I work in downtown Houston and the meeting place is close to downtown looks like I won't be able to get much done in the afternoon from all of the blaring and yelling and crap.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: Patrese

Did your parents sneak into brazil? Did they steal social security numbers to get government services and credit?

Things are not different in America. We gladly accept immigrants. Most do not have a problem with the immigrants that come legally, get a green card, pay taxes for the services they use, etc. You are confused between the word illegal and legal.

No, I'm not: if an immigrant does anything illegal they deserve to be deported. I know a lot of people who would be really happy to pay taxes just like any other American, but they had their visa denied because they're too poor and not educated enough... even if they declare that thay want to be maids, cookers, gardeners and so on... I understand your point about the illegals, but trust me: it is not easy for an immigrant to be legal, even if he wants it a lot and does everything he can to try to get an opportunity of a green card... I respect you all, guys, and maybe I was too harsh on my first post on this thread, but things don't need to be as strict as thay are today... The more restictive the legislation is, the more trouble you're gonna have with illegals...

Maybe instead of blaming the US and the legal citizen's rights to complain about a legitimate problems that plagues us, your energy would better be spent on figuring out ways that Mexico and South American countries can fix their mass corruption, drug trade and developing stable economies that would encourage their citizens to stay. America isn't the problem here, it's practically every country South of it.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: CPA
Maybe instead of blaming the US and the legal citizen's rights to complain about a legitimate problems that plagues us, your energy would better be spent on figuring out ways that Mexico and South American countries can fix their mass corruption, drug trade and developing stable economies that would encourage their citizens to stay. America isn't the problem here, it's practically every country South of it.

Well said.

However, since I don't live in those countries, all I can do is bitch about illegal aliens in the US and the way the US government handles the situation.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: Patrese

Did your parents sneak into brazil? Did they steal social security numbers to get government services and credit?

Things are not different in America. We gladly accept immigrants. Most do not have a problem with the immigrants that come legally, get a green card, pay taxes for the services they use, etc. You are confused between the word illegal and legal.

No, I'm not: if an immigrant does anything illegal they deserve to be deported. I know a lot of people who would be really happy to pay taxes just like any other American, but they had their visa denied because they're too poor and not educated enough... even if they declare that thay want to be maids, cookers, gardeners and so on... I understand your point about the illegals, but trust me: it is not easy for an immigrant to be legal, even if he wants it a lot and does everything he can to try to get an opportunity of a green card... I respect you all, guys, and maybe I was too harsh on my first post on this thread, but things don't need to be as strict as thay are today... The more restictive the legislation is, the more trouble you're gonna have with illegals...

Maybe instead of blaming the US and the legal citizen's rights to complain about a legitimate problems that plagues us, your energy would better be spent on figuring out ways that Mexico and South American countries can fix their mass corruption, drug trade and developing stable economies that would encourage their citizens to stay. America isn't the problem here, it's practically every country South of it.

:thumbsup:

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Patrese

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Patrese
I live in Brazil, I am a Brazilian, but my grandparents are Italian. They got here escaping from Mussolini's army, and I couldn't be any more proud or grateful about the way they were received in Brazil. Today, Brazil still receives its immigrants peacefully, and I'm really proud of it as well, since we're all immigrants anyway, there are only a few indians around the country... Generally, everyone in Brazil thinks just like that: we're really proud about the fact that we receive immigrants well, our culture only gets richer and richer with their presence.

It puzzles me a lot to see that things are so different in the USA, even more than in Europe, because Americans are mostly immigrants anyway, just like here in Brazil... OK, USA is a lot richer and attracts a lot more people, but wasn't this richness built by immigrants or immigrant descendents?:Q Come on, there must be a better way to handle with immigrants than "get the hell out of my country, you're all criminals"... 🙁

Did your family apply for asylum or some other method of legal immigration?

The problem many of us have is with illegal immigrants, not legal immigrants.

No, they escaped from Italy during a period Brazil was also kinda facist (Vargas government, on the 30's), so there could be no way they entered here legally. They were "legalized" some years after, when Brazil entered WW2 with the allies... (long story, Brazilian history is kinda tricky).
Do you have an idea on how hard it is to enter legally on the USA? Even if you're a tourist, it is pretty hard, and it's not only after 7/11: I've been to USA in 1998, legally, and it took about 3 months to get all the papers, and I had to travel 200 miles to go to the US Coulsulate in Sao Paulo, although my town (Belo Horizonte) has 2,5 million people... If it was a little easier, I'm sure there would be a lot less illegals on USA, and a lot less people trying to enter illegaly anyway...

And tell us why we should listen to anything you say? I pretty much stopped reading after you mentioned the tragic incident of 7/11.

 

[Patrese]

Maybe instead of blaming the US and the legal citizen's rights to complain about a legitimate problems that plagues us, your energy would better be spent on figuring out ways that Mexico and South American countries can fix their mass corruption, drug trade and developing stable economies that would encourage their citizens to stay. America isn't the problem here, it's practically every country South of it.

You're right on this one, there is a lot of corruption here in Brazil, and poverty as well. Our economy is pretty stable though, it's been 12 years since we got stabillity, and 22 years of ininterruped democracy. Our president came from the poorest part of the country, and worked on a factory most of his life. We're getting better, slowly, but steadly.
The truth is that things got a lot better when the CIA stopped training people to torture the ones who fought for the things tou asked above, like our president did in the past, by the way. We get real p***** off when lobbists from Europe and the USA companies get together with some Brazilians to do everything thay can to prevent the salaries to raise, to cut workers rights and so on... but, you know, they need a place to hire cheap workforce, to buy drugs. There is no one getting rich with drugs here, mate, they exchange it for firearms. AR-15s specially. Where are these manufectured anyway? I can't remenber! :frown:
I've already realized it's pointless to argue anyway, but I was really sad to see your comment: you want us to solve Brazil's and Latin America's problems? Ask your senator to make the US government and companies stop messing with us, to stop trying to make us swallow ALCA in a way that would only benefit the US. I'm not saying that all our problems are caused by that, but it'd be a lot easier to solve them without this intromission.

 

[Patrese]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Patrese

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Patrese
I live in Brazil, I am a Brazilian, but my grandparents are Italian. They got here escaping from Mussolini's army, and I couldn't be any more proud or grateful about the way they were received in Brazil. Today, Brazil still receives its immigrants peacefully, and I'm really proud of it as well, since we're all immigrants anyway, there are only a few indians around the country... Generally, everyone in Brazil thinks just like that: we're really proud about the fact that we receive immigrants well, our culture only gets richer and richer with their presence.

It puzzles me a lot to see that things are so different in the USA, even more than in Europe, because Americans are mostly immigrants anyway, just like here in Brazil... OK, USA is a lot richer and attracts a lot more people, but wasn't this richness built by immigrants or immigrant descendents?:Q Come on, there must be a better way to handle with immigrants than "get the hell out of my country, you're all criminals"... 🙁

Did your family apply for asylum or some other method of legal immigration?

The problem many of us have is with illegal immigrants, not legal immigrants.

No, they escaped from Italy during a period Brazil was also kinda facist (Vargas government, on the 30's), so there could be no way they entered here legally. They were "legalized" some years after, when Brazil entered WW2 with the allies... (long story, Brazilian history is kinda tricky).
Do you have an idea on how hard it is to enter legally on the USA? Even if you're a tourist, it is pretty hard, and it's not only after 7/11: I've been to USA in 1998, legally, and it took about 3 months to get all the papers, and I had to travel 200 miles to go to the US Coulsulate in Sao Paulo, although my town (Belo Horizonte) has 2,5 million people... If it was a little easier, I'm sure there would be a lot less illegals on USA, and a lot less people trying to enter illegaly anyway...

And tell us why we should listen to anything you say? I pretty much stopped reading after you mentioned the tragic incident of 7/11.

Thanks for pointing that typo, already edited. :thumbsup: You don't need to listen to me, and even if I tiped it right, you wouldn't listen anyway... 🙁

 

[Colt45]

Originally posted by: CPA

Maybe instead of blaming the US and the legal citizen's rights to complain about a legitimate problems that plagues us, your energy would better be spent on figuring out ways that Mexico and South American countries can fix their mass corruption, drug trade and developing stable economies that would encourage their citizens to stay. America isn't the problem here, it's practically every country South of it.

A lot of the countries being screwed up south of the US are due to US actions over the years...

 

[PowerMacG5]

Originally posted by: Patrese

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Patrese
I live in Brazil, I am a Brazilian, but my grandparents are Italian. They got here escaping from Mussolini's army, and I couldn't be any more proud or grateful about the way they were received in Brazil. Today, Brazil still receives its immigrants peacefully, and I'm really proud of it as well, since we're all immigrants anyway, there are only a few indians around the country... Generally, everyone in Brazil thinks just like that: we're really proud about the fact that we receive immigrants well, our culture only gets richer and richer with their presence.

It puzzles me a lot to see that things are so different in the USA, even more than in Europe, because Americans are mostly immigrants anyway, just like here in Brazil... OK, USA is a lot richer and attracts a lot more people, but wasn't this richness built by immigrants or immigrant descendents?:Q Come on, there must be a better way to handle with immigrants than "get the hell out of my country, you're all criminals"... 🙁

Did your family apply for asylum or some other method of legal immigration?

The problem many of us have is with illegal immigrants, not legal immigrants.

No, they escaped from Italy during a period Brazil was also kinda facist (Vargas government, on the 30's), so there could be no way they entered here legally. They were "legalized" some years after, when Brazil entered WW2 with the allies... (long story, Brazilian history is kinda tricky).
Do you have an idea on how hard it is to enter legally on the USA? Even if you're a tourist, it is pretty hard, and it's not only after 9/11: I've been to USA in 1998, legally, and it took about 3 months to get all the papers, and I had to travel 200 miles to go to the US Coulsulate in Sao Paulo, although my town (Belo Horizonte) has 2,5 million people... If it was a little easier, I'm sure there would be a lot less illegals on USA, and a lot less people trying to enter illegaly anyway...

How the hell did it take you 3 months to come as a tourist? It's a simple process here, as long as you aren't from an unrecognized country, or a country on our black list, show your passport at customs at the airport, and you're in.

 

[Tom]

Is anyone interested in reality ? The truth is, no one in this thread who wants to deport all illegal aliens, and build secure borders..

is willing to pay taxes to get it done.

None of the 12 million that are here, are going to leave. So the only choice you can make is, have a bigger underground economy, with all that means for security, or have a smaller underground economy.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: Tom
Is anyone interested in reality ? The truth is, no one in this thread who wants to deport all illegal aliens, and build secure borders..

is willing to pay taxes to get it done.

None of the 12 million that are here, are going to leave. So the only choice you can make is, have a bigger underground economy, with all that means for security, or have a smaller underground economy.

I am willing to pay taxes to deport all of the illegal aliens and secure our borders.
Wait, if we just quit attacking countries in the middle east, we could easily afford to build a wall and deport all of the illegals.
We must extend the tax cuts, so obviously revenue is not a concern.
Just build the wall, secure the border, and let our children and grandchildren pay for it all.
Mission accomplished.

 

[imported_artemis]

Originally posted by: BriGy86
so all these people marching are in support of letting illegal immigrants stay here and welcome more in?

do i have that right?

No, the rally is in support of immigration reform. Their are different laws being tossed around in the House and Senate as a solution to the immigration problem. On one side of the spectrum is the building a giant wall and shipping every illegal out of the country. On the other side, is a Bush supported Work Visa Program. I support the latter.

I work as an immigration student attorney at the Law Center here in Houston. Now, I have to be clear on my views that I am not pro letting everyone come into the border. Otherwise, what is the point of even having a border or a distinct national identity. However, we should realize that if there are this many illegals in the country, and they seem to be finding jobs to support themselves, that there is clearly a need for cheap labor, that Americans citizens are not willing to supply. I would like to see what would happen if the illegal immigrants in this country refused to work for one day. Everything would come to a halt. The fact is that we depend on cheap labor. Many business, such as restaurants would go out of business if it wasn't for cheap immigrant labor.

Rather than continuing a state of denial of this need, I say we legalize the process so we can tax these people and keep track of them. Before immigration laws became so strict these people would come and go after they made some money. Many didn't want to stay in this country, but now they have to because the cost of coming in so high. They can't afford to pay the coyote the cost of transport again.

I am the child of two immigrant parents. My father came to the US from Poland and was granted aslyum because of his political beliefs. My mom came from Peru. So, as a child if immigrant parents, I definitely see the value that these people bring to the country. Now, I do believe that we should take care of our own people before we start taking care of others. It is just not possible to allow everyone that wants to become a US citizen to immigrate.

Most people that do immigrate though are very hard working. Those that are illegal tend to stay under the radar, because they don't want to get caught. They also become part of an underclass. They are taken advantage of because they are afraid to resort to the legal system for help.

 

[imported_artemis]

I forgot to mention also that another one of the laws they are trying to pass would criminalize any assistance given to an illegal immigrant. Thus, any work done my charities, religious organizations, or even the work I do at the my law school, would be considered criminal activity. I think that is just plain crazy to criminalize helping a human being. That means if you give an illegal immigrant a glass a water because he is thirsty, you are a criminal! Talk about the inhumanity of that law.

 

[RCN]

Originally posted by: artemis
and they seem to be finding jobs to support themselves, that there is clearly a need for cheap labor, that Americans citizens are not willing to supply.

I hear this crap all the time. They aren't finding low paying jobs. They are creating them. They are widening the gap between the rich and poor by devaluing the wage.....

Everytime I see a report on illegals they show a few picking beans or what the fvck ever. Why don't they show them framing, roofing or putting up drywall?

I saw a report the other day on the news and one of the host said that some outrageous percentage of drywall installers are illegals because a "white person wouldn't do the job".
BS! A white person won't do it for $6/hour. He can't.

Well now you say "why can't he"? Take a look at the property my wife manages and you will see why. Houses with 10-? illegals in them. When you have 15-? illegals paying for on e house making $6/ hour each isn't that bad. Plenty of money left over for lowered 90's Suburbans and gang wear for there kids. Then I get to see the welfare lady come around soliciting to give my money away to people that don't need it. The corporation that runs the property says look the other way.....

You want reform? Start reforming illegals. This is not Mexico. Tell them to assimilate or go home. Tell them not to accept minimum wage for hard work. Tell them that whether anybody has the balls to say it or not English needs to be spoken. Tell them there is no reason my daughter should have a retarded speed of education because 1st gens could care less whether they learn and speak english at home or not. Tell them that welfare isn't just a bonus the white lady comes around to sign them up for. Fvck it.....I could go on forever......

 

[Ronstang]

I completely agree with you RCN.

 

[Mo0o]

Illegal immigrants complaining they're not being treated fairly by the country they snuck into. The fact that they have the balls to protest amazes me.

I say this again, deportation by catapult.

 

[RCN]

Originally posted by: Mo0o
Illegal immigrants complaining they're not being treated fairly by the country they snuck into. The fact that they have the balls to protest amazes me.

I say this again, deportation by catapult.

I'm not quite at that point yet. These are people and as such I believe they have rights under our system whether they are "illegal" or not including assembly. I just want them to catch on to aspects of being Americans other than touting their rights.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: Patrese

Did your parents sneak into brazil? Did they steal social security numbers to get government services and credit?

Things are not different in America. We gladly accept immigrants. Most do not have a problem with the immigrants that come legally, get a green card, pay taxes for the services they use, etc. You are confused between the word illegal and legal.

No, I'm not: if an immigrant does anything illegal they deserve to be deported. I know a lot of people who would be really happy to pay taxes just like any other American, but they had their visa denied because they're too poor and not educated enough... even if they declare that thay want to be maids, cookers, gardeners and so on... I understand your point about the illegals, but trust me: it is not easy for an immigrant to be legal, even if he wants it a lot and does everything he can to try to get an opportunity of a green card... I respect you all, guys, and maybe I was too harsh on my first post on this thread, but things don't need to be as strict as thay are today... The more restictive the legislation is, the more trouble you're gonna have with illegals...

Maybe instead of blaming the US and the legal citizen's rights to complain about a legitimate problems that plagues us, your energy would better be spent on figuring out ways that Mexico and South American countries can fix their mass corruption, drug trade and developing stable economies that would encourage their citizens to stay. America isn't the problem here, it's practically every country South of it.

That doesn't make any sense.

Because America is the cause of most of problems to the South. Our 'intervention' has been VERY negative in those regions.

But regardless, illegal immigrants are a huge problem. They don't pay taxes and don't do any of the normal things that legal immigrants and citizens do. This has to be taken care of or it will become a huge problem.


As for this thread - a lawnchair and beer would be in order.


I really think its karma, we continue to vote for horrendous leaders and this is the future we created for ourselves. Outclassed by Asian powers like India and China while the problems we fermented decades ago come back to bite us in the ass.