If you really are interested I would suggest popping down to your local library and borrowing a few books. As helpful as we try to be, trying to explain Buddhism over the web requires a lot of wordage. And if you haven't picked it up, most here don't know very much about Buddhism.
you're avoiding the religious aspect of Buddism. Buddism can be taken philosophically but it hints religious aspects (reincarnation) and certainly has a full range of religious properties. It has realms of hell, parallel budda universe, etc...
No, I specifically said Zen for a reason. Zen can be quite different from traditional Japanese Buddhism, especially in those part that you named.
I actually rather see it the other way around.
It is a unique characteristic of Judeo-Christian-Islamic monotheism to believe in exclusive faith and practice in a single strand of a religious tradition. Many people in the world were relatively more accomodating to what we now identify as different "religions."
Being a Zen and Daoist Christian sounds kinda weird but I can sort of picture how that would work out.
I'm with you on the idea that Zen is the other way around, but I still know the people regardless.
What is your definition of a religion?
Also, you should really narrow down to a particular geographic region. Are you interested in Chinese Buddhism? Maybe Korean? Or how about Indian?
Try to find this book in your local library:
Robert E. Buswell, Zen Monastic Experience: Buddhist Practice in Contemporary Korea
It is an academic work but it should be an interesting read to you since you are of Korean background.
I thought that even Zen has quite a few religious characteristics.
Now we are running into another problem. Why are we trying so hard to separate "philosophy" and "religion"? Such terms did not exist in East Asia until the 20th century. We are debating on issues that were more or less absent to practitioners of Buddhism for centuries.
I suggest that for Buddhism to be studied in a fair manner, many existing presumptions of what a religion should be (i.e. Christianity-like) should be dropped. Pretend you know nothing and try to look at the world from a Buddhist point of view. But that'd be tough since you have no materials to work with.
I'll ask my friend and post a couple of books you might be interested in.
Originally posted by: joohang
I thought that even Zen has quite a few religious characteristics.
Now we are running into another problem. Why are we trying so hard to separate "philosophy" and "religion"? Such terms did not exist in East Asia until the 20th century. We are debating on issues that were more or less absent to practitioners of Buddhism for centuries.
I suggest that for Buddhism to be studied in a fair manner, many existing presumptions of what a religion should be (i.e. Christianity-like) should be dropped. Pretend you know nothing and try to look at the world from a Buddhist point of view. But that'd be tough since you have no materials to work with.
I'll ask my friend and post a couple of books you might be interested in.
thank you very much.
you sexy korean you.haha
But he's not online right now so I'll post it up in a couple of days. I think we will have another philosophy/religion talk this weekend so I'll ask them then. Hopefully I'll get some good answers to your reincarnation question while I'm at it.
But he's not online right now so I'll post it up in a couple of days. I think we will have another philosophy/religion talk this weekend so I'll ask them then. Hopefully I'll get some good answers to your reincarnation question while I'm at it.
A lot less so than the more traditional Buddhisms, at least that's what I've been able to deduce.Originally posted by: joohang
I thought that even Zen has quite a few religious characteristics.
Originally posted by: tweakmm
A lot less so than the more traditional Buddhisms, at least that's what I've been able to deduce.Originally posted by: joohang
I thought that even Zen has quite a few religious characteristics.
"Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe."
Not a creator of the universe, but denies the existence of the universe itself, including the denial itself.
"A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship."
Several key patriarchs. Several schools within it. Monastic lives. Definitely institutionalized.
"The life or condition of a person in a religious order."
Not too sure what to make out of this definition.
"A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader."
Yes, except that one should not rely upon the words of leader himself, including the words of Sakyamuni.
"A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion."
Meditation, except that Zen monks would be devoted without conscientious devotion, not even the devotion to avoid coscientious devotion.
So I am right and you are right. And we can also be both wrong.
I think it's because we are trying to judge Zen with a category that is based on the Christian tradition.
Compared to other schools of Buddhism, I agree that it has fewer elements of what one may identified as "religious."
Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
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Maybe because he basically wrote that Buddhism does not offer an explanation because it questions stuff, and that Christianity offers a full explanation of stuff because it doesn't explain it at all and just says 'because it is like that'.
So rather than wondering why someone tells you to jump in front of a train you'd ignore any counter argument and just do it.
So that answers the question "where did God come from?" with a profound "*shrug*I dunno"
You could say that reincarnation is similar to modern laws of physics. According to the laws of physics, energy is not lost, it merely changes form. Same thing applies to reincarnation. Energy (in this case, persons life-force) is not lost, it merely changes (reincarnates).
Now, I'm not a Buddhist, so normal disclaimers apply.
oh.
i equated the word "buddhists" with "monks" even though you don't need to be a monk to be a buddhist.... just realized that error lol.
i equated the word "buddhists" with "monks" even though you don't need to be a monk to be a buddhist.... just realized that error lol.
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