nagging elbow tendonitis from lifting

[Special K]

I've had a very slight tendonitis in my left elbow that's been nagging me for a few months now. The pain is slight and doesn't stop me from working out, but it would be nice to get rid of it for good. I notice the pain on my first couple warmup sets of bench, and then it temporarily goes away. I also sometimes notice it during some arm movements as I go about my day to day activities.

The tendonitis seems to have improved slightly over the months, but is there anything I can do to improve the rate of healing other than stop working out?

A couple weeks ago I started doing tricep and forearm stretches 3 times per day. The stretches are held for 30s each. From the following link:

http://www.handhealthresources.com/Solutions Pages/Exercises.htm

I've been doing the "Forearm Extensor Stretch" and "Forearm Flexor Stretch with Pronation". Here is the tricep stretch I have been doing:

http://www.exrx.net/Stretches/Triceps/Overhead.html

Will this be effective? Is there anything else I can do?

 

[MacLeod1592]

It might be a good idea to switch from free weights to machines for a while.

First take a week off. Maybe do some cardio but don't do any lifting. Then do a 6 week run where all your pressing movements are done on the Smith machine. This takes all the stabilizer muscles out which usually is the problem. Start off with incline bench on the Smith. You wont be able to do as much weight as flat bench so it'll be easier on your elbow and joints but will still give you a good pec workout.

Do the same with triceps work. During this 6 weeks, do only triceps exercise on machines and do light weight and high reps.

I believe you can rehab and still lift. I blew out my shoulder pretty good a while back showing off on bench and wasn't able to do any bench for months. After getting sick of it not healing, I figured out a rehab type workout and a year later it was 99% healed and I lost no real strenght or size. It can be done and I believe if its done right you'll heal not only faster but overall better if you rehab thru lifting as opposed to not doing nothing. Now of course it'll depend on the injury. You ain't rehabbing a torn muscle with weightlifting.

 

[coreyb]

first, macleod doesnt know what the fuck he's talking about so ignore him.

i got rid of my elbow pain from doing curls and lots of chins. plus stretching the shoulders out a lot. but I had it from squatting and having weight on my wrists and elbows that shouldnt have been.

but ya dont listen to a word macleod just said, take a week off...use only machines...LOL

 

[the DRIZZLE]

You might want to look at your program and see if particular exercises are making it worse. Skull crushers often cause elbow issues. I would also look at your total volume including assistance work and consider reducing it.

 

[Sixguns]

first, macleod doesnt know what the fuck he's talking about so ignore him.

i got rid of my elbow pain from doing curls and lots of chins. plus stretching the shoulders out a lot. but I had it from squatting and having weight on my wrists and elbows that shouldnt have been.

but ya dont listen to a word macleod just said, take a week off...use only machines...LOL

I was told to do that from a PT when I messed my elbow up. Take a week off and than use machines because they are easier on your joints. So thats what I did and within a month everything was back to normal.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Wear elbow sleeves.

 

[Exodist]

I was told to do that from a PT when I messed my elbow up. Take a week off and than use machines because they are easier on your joints. So thats what I did and within a month everything was back to normal.

I have heard the same from many physical trainers. And makes good sense since machines are easier on joints.

 

[coreyb]

ya and personal trainers will also tell you not to do full squats and that doing bosu ball lunges is the most effective way to get in shape.

its obvious if you take time off things will get better, but the better option is to keep training and work through the "injury".

Like I said, I had bad tennis elbow and it's all gone now. If I had listened to a PT then I wouldn't have raised my squat 60lbs in the last month....I could go on. There's a big difference between injuries that make you unable to train, and ones that you can train through!

 

[coreyb]

This could also be a form issue with his bench.

I recommend lots of chins, presses, and curls. Also shoulder dislocations. worked for me!

machines are for pussies also.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

I'm skeptical on the "machines are easier on your joints" theory. IMO the majority of machines are actually harder on your joints than free weights.

 

[Exodist]

ya and personal trainers will also tell you not to do full squats and that doing bosu ball lunges is the most effective way to get in shape.

its obvious if you take time off things will get better, but the better option is to keep training and work through the "injury".

Like I said, I had bad tennis elbow and it's all gone now. If I had listened to a PT then I wouldn't have raised my squat 60lbs in the last month....I could go on. There's a big difference between injuries that make you unable to train, and ones that you can train through!

Not Personal Trainers, where talking about Physical Therapist, ya know DOCTORS.

Also when it comes joint injuries, "Working through them" can actually make the injury worse because you could wear the joints out grinding bone against bone or the gel padding out. Common Sense..

Corey Bro, its one thing to work through muscle pain. But joint issues can be a whole new ball park and you should not give bad advice that could cause someone more pain due to lack of understanding.

 

[Exodist]

I'm skeptical on the "machines are easier on your joints" theory. IMO the majority of machines are actually harder on your joints than free weights.

If your pressing heavy weights, nothing is going to be gentle on any joint. But the reason they are recommend is due to their fixed movement. Though I have seen some machines of bad design.

 

[MacLeod1592]

first, macleod doesnt know what the fuck he's talking about so ignore him.

i got rid of my elbow pain from doing curls and lots of chins. plus stretching the shoulders out a lot. but I had it from squatting and having weight on my wrists and elbows that shouldnt have been.

but ya dont listen to a word macleod just said, take a week off...use only machines...LOL

And who the fuck are you besides some troll? Ive got over 20 years lifting and training both recreationally and competitively. Ill stack what I know and what Ive accomplished up against most anybody bitch.

Dude says his elbow hurts but the pain goes away after a few warm up sets of bench. That means nothing is seriously injured or torn. He also said its healing on its on despite continuing doing bench press and other exercises. So rather than "work thru" the injury like a lot of wanna be tough guys like you say to do, you work around the injury so the muscles and tendons around whats hurt can be strengthened while taking the stress off the injured muscle, tendon or whatever. Smith machines and Hammer Strength machines are about the best for this as they have the same form as free weight exercises but without the stress of stabilization.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

first, macleod doesnt know what the fuck he's talking about so ignore him.

i got rid of my elbow pain from doing curls and lots of chins. plus stretching the shoulders out a lot. but I had it from squatting and having weight on my wrists and elbows that shouldnt have been.

but ya dont listen to a word macleod just said, take a week off...use only machines...LOL

You're an idiot. You don't even have proper reasons to retort his suggestion. I don't agree with his suggestion either, but unlike you, I'm going to provide scientific background as to why.

I was told to do that from a PT when I messed my elbow up. Take a week off and than use machines because they are easier on your joints. So thats what I did and within a month everything was back to normal.

Well, your PT doesn't have the best of reasoning. Considering we're dealing with elbow tendonitis and not a joint disorder (like osteoarthritis, cartilage damage from trauma, etc), the statement about the machines being easier on the joints is irrelevant. In addition to that, machines are very rarely the best choice. Using therabands, light free weights, etc are typically much more functional than machines.

To the OP: you should feel the whole back of your arm. Are there any points that are tender or knotted? How well does the muscle as a whole move from side to side? If so, you may want to do some self-massage or foam rolling to reduce the amount of knots in it so as to reduce baseline tension within the muscle.

On top of this, you will want to slowly begin tricep-specific exercises. A good example of this is the typical - "skullcrusher" exercise with a light dumbbell. You should do anywhere from 10-20 reps, enough to feel fatigue and then go 2-3 reps more. If you get any symptoms during the exercise, you need to stop and reduce the weight.

Just for your information, it can be more than just your triceps. Do you have any numbness, coldness, or tingling in your hand or fingers? How about in your forearm? Do you have a history of neck pain? There are several things that can refer pain to the back of the elbow that are actually caused by other sources.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Wear elbow sleeves.

This only masks the symptoms - it doesn't do anything to actually address the issue.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I have heard the same from many physical trainers. And makes good sense since machines are easier on joints.

PTs = physical therapists. They require graduate degrees nowadays and are much more qualified than personal trainers who only require taking a certification test, no education required.

Also, it is a false belief that machines are easier on your joints. Machines frequently create just as much, if not more, pressure on joint surfaces due to the inflexible positioning or tracking of the device. If you wanted to minimize forces on your joints, then you should just not exercise. Compression and release of that compression is essential to maintain cartilage health and actually promotes wellness of the joints. Sure, if you're working 12h a day in conditions with high joint stress, then that's too much. You need to have optimal body mechanics while systematically and healthily exposing the joint to stress. This is one of the reasons why runners actually have a decreased risk of arthritis in the long run.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

And who the fuck are you besides some troll? Ive got over 20 years lifting and training both recreationally and competitively. Ill stack what I know and what Ive accomplished up against most anybody bitch.

Dude says his elbow hurts but the pain goes away after a few warm up sets of bench. That means nothing is seriously injured or torn. He also said its healing on its on despite continuing doing bench press and other exercises. So rather than "work thru" the injury like a lot of wanna be tough guys like you say to do, you work around the injury so the muscles and tendons around whats hurt can be strengthened while taking the stress off the injured muscle, tendon or whatever. Smith machines and Hammer Strength machines are about the best for this as they have the same form as free weight exercises but without the stress of stabilization.

I understand why you're upset. However, what you said isn't the best solution. I imagine the problem is the amount of load he's using. He's using a weight that is too heavy for his damaged tissue. Honestly, he could start benching with the bar, doing light weight for more reps and slowly start increasing the weight while decreasing the reps over a period of a few weeks. That would probably be the most functional since he will actually gain neural coordination for that movement still and he will systematically stress the tissue to promote alignment of collagen fibers as it's deposited in the tissue.

 

[Special K]

To the OP: you should feel the whole back of your arm. Are there any points that are tender or knotted? How well does the muscle as a whole move from side to side? If so, you may want to do some self-massage or foam rolling to reduce the amount of knots in it so as to reduce baseline tension within the muscle.

There are no tender or knotted spots on the back of my arm. It seems to move pretty well from side to side, but I'll start foam rolling it after my lifting.

On top of this, you will want to slowly begin tricep-specific exercises. A good example of this is the typical - "skullcrusher" exercise with a light dumbbell. You should do anywhere from 10-20 reps, enough to feel fatigue and then go 2-3 reps more. If you get any symptoms during the exercise, you need to stop and reduce the weight.

TBH, I quit doing curl bar skull crushers quite awhile back because they were actually causing elbow pain. I switched them to close grip benches and haven't had a problem since. Would close grip benches be a suitable substitute? Should I do them in addition to the 1-armed DB skull crushers? FWIW, those don't irritate my elbow at all, although I'm not really sure why as tricep cable pressdowns do sometimes irritate it. Maybe light 1 armed DB skulls wouldn't be a problem despite the fact that curl bar skull crushers were a problem.

Just for your information, it can be more than just your triceps. Do you have any numbness, coldness, or tingling in your hand or fingers? How about in your forearm? Do you have a history of neck pain? There are several things that can refer pain to the back of the elbow that are actually caused by other sources.

No to all of the things you listed.

For more info., I've been doing the Bill Starr 5x5 workout, with some changes to the rep ranges. Here's a quick summary of what my workouts look like, if it makes any difference:

Monday (sets x reps)

Squat - 5x10 (sets across)
Bench - 5x5
Row - 5x5
Cable Crunches - 2x12
DB Leg Lifts - 2x15

Wednesday

Deadlift - 4x5
Military Press - 4x5
Lighter Squat - 4x10 (sets across)
Pullups - 2 sets
Calf Raises - 2 sets

Friday

Squat - 5x10 (sets across)
Bench - 5x5 (last set is a triple at a heavier weight than Monday if possible)
Rows - 5x5 (last set is a triple at a heavier weight than Monday if possible)
Curls - 3 sets
Close Grip Bench - 3 sets

Honestly, he could start benching with the bar, doing light weight for more reps and slowly start increasing the weight while decreasing the reps over a period of a few weeks. That would probably be the most functional since he will actually gain neural coordination for that movement still and he will systematically stress the tissue to promote alignment of collagen fibers as it's deposited in the tissue.

Right now I'm benching, rowing, and pressing heavy. Should I do the above and switch to a higher rep, lower weight workout instead?

Also should I keep doing the stretches? Do you think they help?

Man, working out requires a lot of maintenance work to really make it safe and effective.

 

[MacLeod1592]

I understand why you're upset. However, what you said isn't the best solution. I imagine the problem is the amount of load he's using. He's using a weight that is too heavy for his damaged tissue. Honestly, he could start benching with the bar, doing light weight for more reps and slowly start increasing the weight while decreasing the reps over a period of a few weeks. That would probably be the most functional since he will actually gain neural coordination for that movement still and he will systematically stress the tissue to promote alignment of collagen fibers as it's deposited in the tissue.

That could work too. I was just giving a suggetion based on ways I've rehabbed my own injuries over the years and heard from other people at the gym doing so. But he should still try each and see how his body reacts. If Smith machine bench hurts his elbow then obviously my suggestion ain't gonna work. But if it doesn't, its worth giving it a try because it'll take stress off the injury allowing it to heal but he'll still be able to work the surrounding muscles and tendons with a good amount of weight. Judging by the fact the the OP said its healing on it's own despite constant lifting, it doesn't sound like its a serious enough energy to drop the workouts to a level that wont really be productive.

To the OP: you could also try working each bodypart once a week instead of twice. I hit my biggest lifts by doing this. Modany hit legs. Wednesday hit chest, shoulders and triceps. Friday hit back and biceps. This will give you the maximum amount of rest for each bodypart.

 

[coreyb]

You're an idiot. You don't even have proper reasons to retort his suggestion. I don't agree with his suggestion either, but unlike you, I'm going to provide scientific background as to why.



Well, your PT doesn't have the best of reasoning. Considering we're dealing with elbow tendonitis and not a joint disorder (like osteoarthritis, cartilage damage from trauma, etc), the statement about the machines being easier on the joints is irrelevant. In addition to that, machines are very rarely the best choice. Using therabands, light free weights, etc are typically much more functional than machines.

To the OP: you should feel the whole back of your arm. Are there any points that are tender or knotted? How well does the muscle as a whole move from side to side? If so, you may want to do some self-massage or foam rolling to reduce the amount of knots in it so as to reduce baseline tension within the muscle.

On top of this, you will want to slowly begin tricep-specific exercises. A good example of this is the typical - "skullcrusher" exercise with a light dumbbell. You should do anywhere from 10-20 reps, enough to feel fatigue and then go 2-3 reps more. If you get any symptoms during the exercise, you need to stop and reduce the weight.

Just for your information, it can be more than just your triceps. Do you have any numbness, coldness, or tingling in your hand or fingers? How about in your forearm? Do you have a history of neck pain? There are several things that can refer pain to the back of the elbow that are actually caused by other sources.

ya im an idiot yet you agree with me that he doesnt know what hes talking about. i dont give a shit about your scientific answer. im just repeating what everyone says on the SS boards to fix elbow tendonitis. it worked for me, it worked for a lot of other people. sometimes empirical advice trumps what you've read in a book or learned in school. or at least matches it.

 

[coreyb]

OP, are you low bar squatting?

 

[Special K]

OP, are you low bar squatting?

No.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

ya im an idiot yet you agree with me that he doesnt know what hes talking about. i dont give a shit about your scientific answer. im just repeating what everyone says on the SS boards to fix elbow tendonitis. it worked for me, it worked for a lot of other people. sometimes empirical advice trumps what you've read in a book or learned in school. or at least matches it.

Your advice was less than empirical. Empirical = providing evidence. You just said do this. If you've got numbers on reps, weight used, progression, number of people who have done it, that's empirical. If you don't, it's called anecdotal and coming from someone on the internet who doesn't have any sort of degree in the profession, it doesn't mean anything. And to be perfectly honest, I've been an athlete all my life. I've got the experience plus the education plus the research. That against anecdote... well, that's just not even a comparison. Also, SS is rarely right regarding rehab as well. A lot of the time, they just say, reduce workload and work back up. The problem was caused by something, rarely does it ever occur just from overuse. That something has to be addressed before going back to activity if you cherish any type of longevity with activity.

 

[Special K]

Hey SC, based on my workout above, do you have any specific recommendations or changes to suggest other than adding in the light weight DB skull crushers? Should I change the weight and/or rep ranges on any of the other lifts?

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Hey SC, based on my workout above, do you have any specific recommendations or changes to suggest other than adding in the light weight DB skull crushers? Should I change the weight and/or rep ranges on any of the other lifts?

I would suggest reducing the weight you're using for anything that involves your triceps - so that's all pressing exercises (bench, military, shoulder, push press). I would suggest dropping it down pretty significantly - by at least half, and upping the reps to 10ish. If you're not feeling any pain, then that's a great sign. You can increase the weight once per week by about 5lbs. Sure, that's slow, but it's systematic and will increase tension rhythmically. As you start to get the weight back up and find you can challenge yourself, you can decrease the reps and increase the weight a bit more.

Keep foam rolling and start doing some general tricep stretches (shoulder flexed, then elbow flexed). Don't stretch if it's uncomfortable - it should just feel like a light stretch - about 3 on a scale of 10 on the scale of discomfort.