Nader Says a Run Would Benefit Democrats

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busmaster11

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2000
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Originally posted by: Genesys
Originally posted by: busmaster11
Wow... As if singlehandedly giftwrapping the presidency to the neocons 3 years ago and with it down the drain go the hope of the free world... once... isn't enough for one man. :)

you seem to have a flair for drama.

perhaps you should get into theatre?

You like that huh? :D
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,744
6,761
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Thanks gentlemen for the most interesting discussion I've read in some time. I find this conversation to be on the horns of the dilemma, and I personally think some form of representational voting is required to revitalize our democracy. Millions of people have nobody for whom to vote but the lesser of two evils and one who looks for all the world like one that will insure the greater evil wins, but without which important ideas are not heard. I don't know the answer here except that I want change. I wanted to vote for Nader and not Gore but above all else I didn't want Bush to win. I believe that Bush is a menace to humanity because his decisions are reached completely superficially with out great inner struggle. He is snap superficial and wields great power, a most dangerous of combinations. I believe also that millions of people who similarly have not struggled to comprehend life for themselves are completely blind to this. As LunarRay said, the findings are limited by the scope of the search.
 

Nietzscheusw

Senior member
Dec 28, 2003
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Defeating Bush does not mean putting an end to the two-jobs moms and dads, that is: a crime against families. Neither does it mean stopping the destruction of your jobs.
Only getting Nader elected, or a revolution, could put an end to the destruction of the USA. Not an electronic vote hostage of Diebold and co.
Anyway, if the US economy is about to go under like in 1929 and/or a new terrorist act is about to be engineered by those who master-minded 9-11, you had better arm yourselves to save your Constitution, your freedom, your life.
Time has come for you to stand up and unite to get your life back.
Corporations and bankers have stolen it from you but you have yet to fully realize it.
 

busmaster11

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2000
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Originally posted by: NietzscheuswCorporations and bankers have stolen it from you but you have yet to fully realize it.

Oh no.. not the illuminati again.
rolleye.gif
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,744
6,761
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Originally posted by: busmaster11
Originally posted by: NietzscheuswCorporations and bankers have stolen it from you but you have yet to fully realize it.

Oh no.. not the illuminati again.
rolleye.gif

Is that a deflection of his argument or a reference to some real past post. I ask because I would have been interested in your answer to his case. I can see the hyperbolic reaction as an extreme, but the facts look right to me.
 

busmaster11

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2000
2,875
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: busmaster11
Originally posted by: NietzscheuswCorporations and bankers have stolen it from you but you have yet to fully realize it.

Oh no.. not the illuminati again.
rolleye.gif

Is that a deflection of his argument or a reference to some real past post. I ask because I would have been interested in your answer to his case. I can see the hyperbolic reaction as an extreme, but the facts look right to me.


It was actually a reference to an off the wall post someone made just a couple days ago in P&N or OT... Suspiciously I can't seem to find it anymore...

As for Nader... I agree completely... But he can't win. Therefore he would only take votes away from the dems, just as he did 3 years ago. No thanks.
 

Nietzscheusw

Senior member
Dec 28, 2003
308
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busmaster11 has just tried to discredit me while refusing to confront reality, to debate.
It must be much more reassuring for you.
Let me guess your thoughts: "there are no banks. There are no corporations. People have the power. Those who say banks and corporations have the power are conspiracy theorists. They should be straightjackted and sent to Guantanamo. Let me watch my commercials in peace! I buy what I want! I am free!" Or: "Corporations and politicians work hand in hand to help us have a better life. I am happy! Viva los corporacions! Viva los politicians!"
Happy new year in the WTO paradise...or is it gulag?
 

Nietzscheusw

Senior member
Dec 28, 2003
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busmaster11, Nader steal votes away from the corporations's political puppets, whether you call them republicans or democrats.
 

busmaster11

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2000
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Originally posted by: Nietzscheusw
busmaster11, Nader steal votes away from the corporations's political puppets, whether you call them republicans or democrats.

dude! I'm not disagreeing with you! read my post!

All I'm saying is its a pipe dream to think he's got a shot.

 

Nietzscheusw

Senior member
Dec 28, 2003
308
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Corporate media want you to believe he cannot win from the start of the campaign.
But if you chose not to base your vote on corporate polls but instead to campaign for Nader and convince people to campaign for him, if you moved your arse and went door-to-door to explain to people that democratic candidates care much more about corporations than about them, then maybe Nader could go higher in the polls, get more votes than any independant candidate ever, and in four years he or another candidate with the same ideas would be taken far more seriously by the voters, and a new party could replace the corporations' democratic party.
It all starts with you!
But you have to be ready to let the republican party win the elections once, or twice in a row.
It is like in chess: the sacrifice of a pawn to get a more important piece later in the game.
The political game is not a four-year game. It is a battle that spans over centuries.
You have to play long term if you really want to win; because you want real, deep change. And the democratic party doesn't push for real deep changes in favour of the people. Remember NAFTA ? Or you prefer not to face this huge deed of the democratic party against the people?
And even if Kucinich were the candidate of the democratic party, then what? Democratic congressmen, senators are sold to the corporations. He would have little power. He could not change much.
The democratic party must be abandoned by the people. You must stop unrealisticaly believing this corrupt party is on your side. Keeping on hoping this party cares for you is like loving a girl who doesn't love you and refusing to love anyone else.
It is time for democratic voters to become adults and cut all links with this party.
Nader spent his whole life fighting. What are you going to do with your life? Praying the democratic party really loves you deep inside?
 

busmaster11

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2000
2,875
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Originally posted by: Nietzscheusw
Corporate media want you to believe he cannot win from the start of the campaign.
But if you chose not to base your vote on corporate polls but instead to campaign for Nader and convince people to campaign for him, if you moved your arse and went door-to-door to explain to people that democratic candidates care much more about corporations than about them, then maybe Nader could go higher in the polls, get more votes than any independant candidate ever, and in four years he or another candidate with the same ideas would be taken far more seriously by the voters, and a new party could replace the corporations' democratic party.
It all starts with you!
But you have to be ready to let the republican party win the elections once, or twice in a row.
It is like in chess: the sacrifice of a pawn to get a more important piece later in the game.
The political game is not a four-year game. It is a battle that spans over centuries.
You have to play long term if you really want to win; because you want real, deep change. And the democratic party doesn't push for real deep changes in favour of the people. Remember NAFTA ? Or you prefer not to face this huge deed of the democratic party against the people?
And even if Kucinich were the candidate of the democratic party, then what? Democratic congressmen, senators are sold to the corporations. He would have little power. He could not change much.
The democratic party must be abandoned by the people. You must stop unrealisticaly believing this corrupt party is on your side. Keeping on hoping this party cares for you is like loving a girl who doesn't love you and refusing to love anyone else.
It is time for democratic voters to become adults and cut all links with this party.
Nader spent his whole life fighting. What are you going to do with your life? Praying the democratic party really loves you deep inside?

There's no way to win the war from the outside. The only hope we have of decreasing the influence of coprorations is by further restricting soft monies...

I for one will not risk another four years of republican rule.
 

Nietzscheusw

Senior member
Dec 28, 2003
308
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Restricting the flow of money could work. We shall see. Do you have good infos about how this is going. I read an article about it and it seemed to work well in one place. But on the whole?

As of now, corporations rule. Not republicans neither democrats.

Diebold and co helped the republicans fraudulously win in 2002. How about 2004 and later on?

How are the two fundamental fights against electronic fraud and corporations money going?
 

chowderhead

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 1999
2,633
263
126
Originally posted by: Nietzscheusw
Corporate media want you to believe he cannot win from the start of the campaign.

It is like in chess: the sacrifice of a pawn to get a more important piece later in the game.
The political game is not a four-year game. It is a battle that spans over centuries.
You have to play long term if you really want to win; because you want real, deep change.
It is time for democratic voters to become adults and cut all links with this party.
Nader spent his whole life fighting. What are you going to do with your life? Praying the democratic party really loves you deep inside?
This is nonsense. Do you read what you are writing? Nader cannot win because he represents the far left of the political spectrum. Corporate media ... ok. If the right complains about a liberal media and the left complains about a corporate media then I think everyone is being represented fine. Politics should not be a game. It has real consequences or have you not noticed what has happened these last three years under GWB? It's not about winnning or losing, it is about helping elect people that most represent your ideas, values and beliefs. I say <b>most</b> represent because the only person that represents you completely is you.
Nader has spent the last three years being largely silent on everything that has gone on. What can he say, well GWB is no different than the Democrats on issues like the environment, judicial nominations, abortion rights? Do you really think that Gore would have gone into Iraq or appointed Ashcroft? Again, it's the corporate media's fault right? Let's blame some nebular, amorphic boogey man like the corporate media instead of Nader. Nader and his group are an interest group ... just like corporations and unions and the NRA. If they want to throw a hissy fit and take their "chess" pieces and go home, then fine. You can vote for a hundred years and Nader will still not have done anything except act as a spoiler. History will reflect that he, Ralph Nader, supposedly champion of the common man, help elect GWB. Nice going.
 

Nietzscheusw

Senior member
Dec 28, 2003
308
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Jeb helped elect G.W.
As for corporate media...go on edonkey, type Michael Parenti, or Noam Chomsky, and listen to their conferences! They have very intelligent things to say. It is more complex than you seem to think, which can be summed up this way: "people complain so that's cool!". Beavis could have said that!
Clinton (with the support of Gore who did not resign) started granting more power to the feds (=less freedom), signed NAFTA (a major attack on american people), killed more Iraqis than both Bush combined (embargo full force),...
Wake up! You do not see!
What you see is not reality. It is merely a theater play.
You must educate yourself and see much deeper.
As Wittgenstein wrote, your brain must become a laser. That is, if you want to become a genius.
But maybe you prefer to remain in the cavern. Did you read Plato's allegory?
 

Nietzscheusw

Senior member
Dec 28, 2003
308
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I advise you to download and listen to this enlightening speech by the brilliant professor of political science Michael Parenti:
ed2k://|file|Michael.Parenti.-.The.2.Party.Monopoly.mp3|8161523|06B32D0369272051F1549FE249C3586D|/
It is on edonkey / emule