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NAACP wants Georgia's Stone Mountain carving removed

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Angry Irishman said:
Why don't you all just find a time machine and go back and fight in the civil war. Trying to boil the war down to just slavery is ridiculous....even for this stupid fucking forum.

The men who fought on both sides were veterans. They should be treated as such.

If you think the average Johnny Reb was a slave owner then you need to read a book. Get off the band wagon for Gods sake.
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Yeah, except they said so in their own words.

"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."

http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/cornerstone-speech/
 
Atomic Playboy said:
I don't want them torn down; I think that's whitewashing the past, and we need to remember that time in history. But it's a little ironic to talk about respecting the proud Americans who were actively rebelling against the United States at the time; if they'd won, they wouldn't have been "proud Americans" anymore (or at least "proud Confederate Americans" or whatever). They remained Americans by virtue of failing in their rebellion. It seems silly to drum up their American credentials as a reason to keeping monuments honoring them.
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That's not what whitewashing means: deliberately attempt to conceal unpleasant facts about (a person or organization).

The supporters of the Confederate flags/monuments/states right arguments are the ones whitewashing the past. The monument itself is an attempt to 'whitewash' the past.

Now, having said that, I don't support tearing the monument down but, rather, have a damn big museum there that tells folks exactly what those men were fighting to preserve and expand, the right to own black people as livestock. That is *not* something to be proud of.
 
Angry Irishman said:
What do you propose should be done with the memorial? Be specific.....

I never said it wasn't primarily about slavery.....keep assuming.
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Your own words: "Trying to boil the war down to just slavery is ridiculous....even for this stupid fucking forum."

A point that nobody has tried to make, btw, simply that it was the major reason.
 
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piasabird said:
How is this any different from a Militant Muslim group that wants to destroy a Buddha? It is a racist hateful act to deface a work of art.
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Another one who sees no difference between a murderous bunch of assholes who kill, rape and destroy and a group that *asks* that a monument that glorifies the Slaver's Rebellion in the be torn down. 🙄
 
Victorian Gray said:
Yeah, except they said so in their own words.

"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."

http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/cornerstone-speech/
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Yep, every single one of those rebs🙄 Different times, still part of history. Shouldn't be erased as many are advocating.
 
Angry Irishman said:
Yep, every single one of those rebs🙄 Different times, still part of history. Shouldn't be erased as many are advocating.
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We aren't talking about every single soldier who fought for the Confederacy. We're talking about the three Confederate leaders who are carved onto a giant rock in Georgia. The men who happened to be the people who helped draft the secession documents that included specific reference to slavery.
 
Many of us have this in our closet somewhere.

d8f014684dcbb3d7f634e0c76df9c0d4.jpg


gettysburg_cd_parts1.jpg


Probably my most favorite war game of all time. I'm not even remotely embarrassed about it's design. Does this make me a racist? Does it make me racist if I don't care?

Having some generals carved out of a mountain like a bad tattoo is just a terrible nonsensical statement. I'm not familiar with it, but I assumed that honored southern

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walker_Hancock

Want to know something ironic? One of the leading men behind the confederate mountain sculptures was one of the Monuments Men who was portrayed by John Goodman.

monumentsmen_2824135b.jpg



So...is John Goodman supposed to feel guilty now about what he did?

That's a whole lot of sarcasm for those who don't get it.

Get rid of idols and relics of white supremacy. The battle flag is not one of those things, although it is used by those idiots. You know what those idiots also use? The american flag.
 
zinfamous said:
Sorry, I was "dumbing things down for you" because that seems like your MO. So, I'm not going to do that. I'm going to show how fucking stupid you are. Here we go:

"Let me dumb this down for you," as you said earlier.

See, that is exactly the mode from which you began this stupid thread. The NAACP is exactly like ISIS because "they both destroy--or want to destroy--things that they don't like." You dumbed it down to a level where only idiots would agree with you. That is what happens when you "dumb things down." Especially things as complex as ISIS and the more than 400 year history of race relations in this country. "Dumbing down" is what happens when you ignore the relevant details of two complex issues and try to construct a pus-addled talking point that appeals only to simpletons.

You ignored the manner by which groups and individuals act which, in the case of ISIS, is exactly and exclusively why we dislike them, and distilled the entirely of their movement and their organization into a single one of the many ideas for which they claim to stand.

The NAACP has done nothing here, yet this press conference has made them exactly like ISIS because they mentioned that something needs to be removed. Not destroyed, exploded, shattered into bits, burned...raped, beheaded, murdered, beaten, tortured...oh I lost track--but removed. Exactly. ...like ISIS.

Further, when you try to make this analogy, when you try to say this group is the same as that group, you have to use a comparison for which you can't so easily say this about any group that is out there; and especially not the groups whose acknowledgement would be rather embarrassing to you:

Those hipsters that burned all of those Disco records are exactly like ISIS!
Those dumbshit WASP parents who destroyed all those Beatles records are exactly like ISIS!
Those GOP nutbags that want to destroy Planned Parenthood are exactly like ISIS!
etc.

So, you know why none of these groups, and certainly not the NAACP are anything like ISIS? It's because they aren't going out and murdering, raping, kidnapping, terrorizing, waiting for the apocalyptic war to destroy the earth (well, there indeed are some in the GOP tend that are giddy over that prospect--which is exactly why they want to go to war).

You say that actions are irrelevant, that ideas are always more important than the manner by which one pursues those ideas, and that your comparison is sound.

Sensible people know not only that you are wrong about this assessment, but that you present yourself as a fool when trying to defend your argument.

In short: you have, indeed, gone full retard.
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Thanks for taking the time. :thumbsup:
 
Atomic Playboy said:
I think the issue is that there's a difference between displaying shameful pieces of your past in a museum and celebrating them via theme parks. Germany accomplished some great things during the Nazi regime, but they don't have parks dedicated to the great men in Nazi uniform. I'm torn on the issue, because I agree with you that we shouldn't whitewash our past to avoid offending people, and I think there's real value in keeping the monument as is. But I could see how it could be a sore point given the history it represents.
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What people don't get (And it is usually the younger or sheltered people) is that nearly all museums contain things we should really be shameful about.

Think about how many museums are filled with Manifest Destiny material. We freaking murdered, robbed, and lied to the native Americans. We should be HORRIFIED of it.....but that is the whole point!! Go to the museum and say, "Damn, that looks terrible" And then read the script beneath it that describes how horrible we were. Then say, "Boy, I'm glad I saw that, I didn't know that. Next time I drive by that shopping mall I will remember it was built on top of an ancient society that will be lost forever."

Other countries have the same things. Coliseums, although beautiful and epic, are shameful relics of our past.

It's been so easy to just point the finger at the Nazi's and act like everyone else is perfect, when really nobody else is even close.

I hope this history removal push stops and we focus on the real problems that got us there in the first place.

In any event, the mountain carving is pretty damn tacky. 😀
 
mizzou said:
What people don't get (And it is usually the younger or sheltered people) is that nearly all museums contain things we should really be shameful about.

Think about how many museums are filled with Manifest Destiny material. We freaking murdered, robbed, and lied to the native Americans. We should be HORRIFIED of it.....but that is the whole point!! Go to the museum and say, "Damn, that looks terrible" And then read the script beneath it that describes how horrible we were. Then say, "Boy, I'm glad I saw that, I didn't know that. Next time I drive by that shopping mall I will remember it was built on top of an ancient society that will be lost forever."

Other countries have the same things. Coliseums, although beautiful and epic, are shameful relics of our past.

It's been so easy to just point the finger at the Nazi's and act like everyone else is perfect, when really nobody else is even close.

I hope this history removal push stops and we focus on the real problems that got us there in the first place.

In any event, the mountain carving is pretty damn tacky. 😀
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In Germany, they don't erect giant carvings of Hitler and talking about how its their heritage. They put that shit in museums and move on.

While in America people put up statues of KKK members on public land and then get upset when educated people say that its really stupid.
 
CitizenKain said:
In Germany, they don't erect giant carvings of Hitler and talking about how its their heritage. They put that shit in museums and move on.

While in America people put up statues of KKK members on public land and then get upset when educated people say that its really stupid.
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Sadly, it is part of their heritage. They shouldn't forget that or hide it. Hitler will forever be part of Germany. It sucks, but it's better then pretending it didn't happen.

Don't forget those same stupid people still living today actually voted for KKK members into public office. Are they the next ones getting "moved"?

People are overall, very dumb. We need to be reminded of how stupid we are from time to time.
 
Angry Irishman said:
Yep, every single one of those rebs🙄 Different times, still part of history. Shouldn't be erased as many are advocating.
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I still don't see people trying to erase anything. I see people trying to remove state support of past misdeeds. For the most part, these monuments exist in a museum. Especially when you look into why they are actually where they are, and when they were put there.

Again, for the millionth time--much of these fights over the last week are to remove symbols that were restored in the 50s and 60s explicitly as an open FUCK YOU to the Civil Rights movement.

You can't really claim history! tradition! freedom! when the express purpose of this flag being reintroduced, monuments being built--ONLY IN THE 50s--was to piss off blacks seeking equal treatment under the Constitution of the USA.

There is no valid argument that many of these symbols do not exist in their current place explicitly due to racist purposes. None. That is history.

At least, it's actual history--including the bits that you conveniently ignore and those that you pathetically don't understand.
 
FelixDeCat said:
The book burning and white washing continues. :|
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You would burn every book that isn't the Bible, dumbass.

Climb back into your hole where you can continue to entertain yourself with balls of string and your thumbs.

You evolved from an ape. Fucking deal with it.
 
FelixDeCat said:
The book burning and white washing continues. :|
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Hitler also burned books that were "not german enough", he wanted to eradicate the entire Jewish race and god knows what else, and then have a disgusting museums about what the non-germanic universe used to be like.

Doesn't sound a whole lot different to me then (It belongs nowhere else but in a museum, eradicate it's existence everywhere).

People always say "Oh that will never happen again, not here" but god damn, it turns its ugly head all the time!
 
zinfamous said:
You would burn every book that isn't the Bible, dumbass.

Climb back into your hole where you can continue to entertain yourself with balls of string and your thumbs.

You evolved from an ape. Fucking deal with it.
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If you have to resort to name calling to make a point, you have no point to make. Enjoy your white washed history. :|
 
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