don't compare healthcare to school system.
the school system since the '50s in the US has been more of a baby sitting service than anything else, before WWII it was more about education because the mothers stayed home and it wasn't necessary, but after during WWII when all the mothers had to go to work and since (evolution of 2 income families) the role of the school system changed to primarily baby sitting vs education. i'm not saying anyone said "let's change school system to baby sitting service" but what i'm saying is, the baby sitting function of the school system became more important than the education.
hence the focus on hours, school bus systems etc.
agreed, i paid over $7k in property taxes last year. and for that our district reduced class sizes for 1st graders to 15 each and are planning on doing that all the way up to 3rd grade.
i'm very happy because the public school my son attends is VERY VERY good.
One of my teachers stuck the Special Ed kids in groups with the smarter kids so that they could "help them keep up." I had three kids in my group that I had to explain everything too. I guess that's why I always assume I am the smartest when I do group projects. See school system, you made me arrogant. **shakes fist**
- Feb 8, 2001
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There was another article on the Durham Herald Sun would convenientlt got deleted..
Thanks Google cache:
School Board cuts advanced classes at middle schools
BY CAROLYN NORTON : The Herald-Sun
cnorton@heraldsun.com
Jan 17, 2004 : 9:43 pm ET
CHAPEL HILL -- Culbreth and Phillips middle schools won't have seventh-grade advanced language arts classes starting in the 2005-06 school year, the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City School Board decided Thursday in a move that riled parents and some board members.
"The trend of dismantling advanced courses is very disturbing -- and it is unfair," parent Ed Holub said.
The change is part of an overall push by the district to move away from offering advanced level courses before high school.
Last year, the school board controversially voted to get rid of sixth-grade advanced language arts classes at Culbreth and Phillips, the only schools that offered them. Officials planned to phase out the whole program, eliminating the seventh-grade classes for the upcoming school year and the eighth-grade classes for the next.
Instead, the district decided it needed more time to study its academically gifted program before eliminating the seventh-grade course.
"I think the staff felt we were along the right path, only delayed," said Superintendent Neil Pedersen. "We don't want to send a signal that we are changing direction."
Since the mid-1990s, the district has emphasized "differentiation," the practice of clustering students by ability within a classroom.
Pedersen said the district will study whether differentiation is working this spring. After that, officials will evaluate the sixth-grade changes.
If research shows that getting rid of the sixth-grade classes didn't work, the board could change its mind about getting rid of the seventh-grade classes, Pedersen said.
But Ava Nackman, who has a child in sixth grade at Culbreth, said she already knows differentiation is not working.
The assignments, she said, are too easy for her child.
"We were assured that every child would be challenged," Nackman told the school board Thursday night. "Those promises have not been met with my child."
Board members Jamezetta Bedford and Michael Kelley voted against eliminating the course at Culbreth and Phillips.
"It would seem illogical to me for the board to make a decision tonight without having the data for the current year" said Kelley.
Other board members said although they voted to get rid of the class, they want more information about whether the overall plan is working.
"I don't mind having mud in my face and then being told, look, it didn't work," said board Chairwoman Elizabeth Carter.
Several people, including former board member Gloria Faley, also addressed the board Thursday night to support eliminating the language arts courses for gifted students.
Michelle Laws, an official in the local NAACP and an adjunct professor at North Carolina Central University, said the classes create educational systems "based on superiority."
Intelligence, she said, includes more than just academic aptitude.
"The system that we currently have does not address those other variables," Laws said.
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
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Mothers didn't start entering the work force in the numbers we see today until the 70s-80s. It wasn't after WWII.
no i don't. i was just making the general comment that a national healthcare system would be about healthcare (and political pandering) whereas educational system does really serve a dual function. so IF there were to be a national healthcare system it wouldn't have the excuses that the educational system would.
i'm claiming that the educational system as is has it's functions and it's place.
it's my personal opinion that we already have national healthcare in place. the average doctors office derives aproximately 50 to 60% of his revenue from Medicare/Medicaid.
the ONLY people that AREN'T covered are hardworking middle class people that don't work for a large company. it's amazing how much time some of these people spend to stay enrolled in medicaid (they have to go back every month). the amound of time spent by people to receive their "entitlements" could be spent attempting to acquire a new job. it's amazing.
when i first returned from S. Korea (no job very few prospects but some money put aside) i delivered NEWSPAPERS for pete's sake to keep food on the table.
but that's all a story for another day.
women entered the work force in large numbers in WWII because a lot of the men had gone to fight the war. it started the trend.
This kinda reminded me of my 5th grade math class. The teacher didn't have a normal class. For the first chapter of the math book, we were all given a form. She called it a contract. The way it worked: we would work each section on our own. We were required to do X amount of problems per section. Once we got to the end, we could take the chapter exam. If we passed, we were allowed to move to the next chapter. If we failed, we worked more problems, went to her for guidance, and retook the test. I thought it was a nifty idea.
For that school year, I (and 2 other guys) ended up burning through the 5th and 6th grade math book and half of the 8th grade algebra book. The teacher was having a problem keeping up with us.
....ok so it's totally unrelated. I just thought it'd be a good time to mention it
[edit] i forgot to mention that I made an "A" on every chapter test
For that school year, I (and 2 other guys) ended up burning through the 5th and 6th grade math book and half of the 8th grade algebra book. The teacher was having a problem keeping up with us.
....ok so it's totally unrelated. I just thought it'd be a good time to mention it
[edit] i forgot to mention that I made an "A" on every chapter test
When the NAACP gets smart enough to figure out that Minorities doesnt equal just their black and hispanic selves we'll see. Idiots. There are tons of Asians and people from other countries that come to the US and do perfectly fine in the advanced class. Maybe advanced classes are unfair to minorities that do not speak proper english?
ViRGE
Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
- Oct 9, 1999
- 31,516
- 167
- 106
That is exactly the wrong thing to do there. When I was in elementary school so many years ago, I was indentified under their TAG program(Talanted and Gifted), and in the end, they ended up hiring a special math/science teacher for the TAG students, and have her teach them advanced math/science ~hour/day. Then they cut her(results of property tax reform, or so they claim), and it was downhill ever since. At the elementary level, no one even bothered with me until my 5th grade year, when by chance I ended up in the Math director's class(and this was literally by chance, they had to cut my original 5th grade class because they had too many 2nd graders, and needed another teacher). He did what he could(had me work from the 7th grade math book), but still, it wasn't much.
Middle school wasn't any better - they droped me from reading entirely my 6th grade year(what's the point? I was reading at the 6th grade level years ago), and put me on the advanced math track(more or less class = grade + 2), and that's it; no advanced reading, science, social studies, or anything else. It wasn't until high school that I had full access to advanced courses, and by that time, it's too late to fully shape that kind of gift.
Schools need to offer advanced courses at every step, diversity be damned. There are so many great things that can be done with the gifted children; their minds are like putty just waiting for somebody to mold them, but these days there isn't anyone to do so, so the kids just sit there, stupified. These days, at least where I'm from, pre-HS advanced education is a joke, the TAG budget when I left was 1/20 what it was when I started, and the district woud scrap it entirely if they could get away with it. What a waste...
PS Amused, Platinum; OT may be the wrong place for this discussion, but it's definately the wrong place to argue about socialized health care(more so in a thread about education) - please take it to P&N
GTaudiophile
Lifer
- Oct 24, 2000
- 29,767
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Actually, I think when you do the numbers, the US Gov't spends like $10-20K per child per year on education, MUCH more than any other country. I was lucky enough to have attended private school, and my parents certainly spent less than that per year.
So instead of being in different classrooms doing different work, everyone is in one classroom doing different work.
Yay progress!
If my work is 3x as difficult as Johnny's then I had best be graded on a completely different scale. In fact I would say that the best grade Johnny should be able to get is a C, since he is only doing 1/3rd the work I am. Afterall, we are in the same class and it isn't fair to let him slide by doing less work.
Yay progress!
If my work is 3x as difficult as Johnny's then I had best be graded on a completely different scale. In fact I would say that the best grade Johnny should be able to get is a C, since he is only doing 1/3rd the work I am. Afterall, we are in the same class and it isn't fair to let him slide by doing less work.
SarcasticDwarf
Diamond Member
- Jun 8, 2001
- 9,574
- 2
- 76
A similar thing happened to me. I was reading at a college level in 4th or 5th grade. The schools did absolutely nothing. In fact, the library was divided into two sections on elementary school. The kiddie picture books and the other books. The librarians wouldn't let me out of the picture book area until fifth grade! Gee, I wonder if that had anything to do with why I was such a pain in the ass during class.
- Feb 8, 2001
- 35,461
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They paid for your education in tax dollars for the public school in addition. I congratulate your parents on not submitting you to the horrors of a public education
<---victim of public education. Slept and did not pay attention in classes, even the accelerated ones. They were not intensive enough.
GTaudiophile
Lifer
- Oct 24, 2000
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Yep, my parents were fully aware of that: paid taxes to fund a system that their son didn't use.
I'm increasingly considering starting a fund to put my kid through private school. I used to be opposed to vouchers, but I'm starting to see their potential benefit. This is truly to continued dumbing down of America as we know it.
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