My transformation and how I did it

[z1ggy]

Blah blah blah Im better than you and so much more jacked and awesome.

Cool story bro. Guess I'm just not as gifted as you in the weight room.

Weighed myself the other day, 187.8lb, and the little hand grabbed body fat thing said I was 16.2% now. Those vary as much as 2%, in either direction so I could be anywhere from 18.2 to 14.2% depending on hydration levels, etc etc. 2 weeks ago after 5 weeks of doing fasting and heavier lifts, I was down to 15.5% according to the same machine. I took two weeks off from diet because I went on vacation and attended a wedding the next week.

Personally, I could honestly care less about my raw lifting numbers. I'm not here to measure my D up against forum members. I enjoy lifting weights and want to use that hobby to help myself look good, and feel good about myself. If I can obtain those two things while only benching 185lb, who are you to judge? Obviously, Im going to push myself and keep lifting as hard as I can, but I don't define my success or my self worth by my current lifts, or my future ones.

 

[Davidpaul007]

Cool story bro. Guess I'm just not as gifted as you in the weight room.

Weighed myself the other day, 187.8lb, and the little hand grabbed body fat thing said I was 16.2% now. Those vary as much as 2%, in either direction so I could be anywhere from 18.2 to 14.2% depending on hydration levels, etc etc. 2 weeks ago after 5 weeks of doing fasting and heavier lifts, I was down to 15.5% according to the same machine. I took two weeks off from diet because I went on vacation and attended a wedding the next week.

Personally, I could honestly care less about my raw lifting numbers. I'm not here to measure my D up against forum members. I enjoy lifting weights and want to use that hobby to help myself look good, and feel good about myself. If I can obtain those two things while only benching 185lb, who are you to judge? Obviously, Im going to push myself and keep lifting as hard as I can, but I don't define my success or my self worth by my current lifts, or my future ones.

There is so much variance on strength depending on muscle insertions and genetic predisposition.

It was definitely not my intent previously to make you feel bad about your numbers, merely to suggest you train a certain way given your current relative strength levels, ie, i think you could get more benefit out of hitting bodyparts at least twice a week vs. once.

Also, it's important to remember to pair your training with your diet and in turn your goals. My goals are to trim fat and maintain muscle so both my diet and training plans are tailored with this in mind.

For that reason, it's hard for me to comment on your specific macros because it depends on many factors...such as:
1. Your recovery ability
2. Whether you prioritize strength/size or leaness
3. You're metabolism
4. Your job (sedentary, office, etc)
5. Your activity level outside the gym and your job

That said, the best advice I can give is to clearly define your goals/strategy, pick a starting point, the above all be consistent for at least 3 weeks. Then look at all the data and adjust.

My recommendation for someone in your situation is to trim the fat first, then transition to a slow bulk.

 

[z1ggy]

There is so much variance on strength depending on muscle insertions and genetic predisposition.

It was definitely not my intent previously to make you feel bad about your numbers, merely to suggest you train a certain way given your current relative strength levels, ie, i think you could get more benefit out of hitting bodyparts at least twice a week vs. once.

Also, it's important to remember to pair your training with your diet and in turn your goals. My goals are to trim fat and maintain muscle so both my diet and training plans are tailored with this in mind.

For that reason, it's hard for me to comment on your specific macros because it depends on many factors...such as:
1. Your recovery ability
2. Whether you prioritize strength/size or leaness
3. You're metabolism
4. Your job (sedentary, office, etc)
5. Your activity level outside the gym and your job

That said, the best advice I can give is to clearly define your goals/strategy, pick a starting point, the above all be consistent for at least 3 weeks. Then look at all the data and adjust.

My recommendation for someone in your situation is to trim the fat first, then transition to a slow bulk.

My abovequote was directed at you, it was to somebody else.

Basically I'm doing what you just said, trim fat, then slow bulk. I read every single word over the past few days on the ripped body website, I think I got some good info from it. I think I am going to stick with the routine you laid out with the 3 day split, using RPT. I'll worry about what to do next once I meet my goals.

 

[alkemyst]

Cool story bro. Guess I'm just not as gifted as you in the weight room.

Weighed myself the other day, 187.8lb, and the little hand grabbed body fat thing said I was 16.2% now. Those vary as much as 2%, in either direction so I could be anywhere from 18.2 to 14.2% depending on hydration levels, etc etc. 2 weeks ago after 5 weeks of doing fasting and heavier lifts, I was down to 15.5% according to the same machine. I took two weeks off from diet because I went on vacation and attended a wedding the next week.

Personally, I could honestly care less about my raw lifting numbers. I'm not here to measure my D up against forum members. I enjoy lifting weights and want to use that hobby to help myself look good, and feel good about myself. If I can obtain those two things while only benching 185lb, who are you to judge? Obviously, Im going to push myself and keep lifting as hard as I can, but I don't define my success or my self worth by my current lifts, or my future ones.

I am just concerned since you have a ton of H&F posts here that I believe were all false.

 

[alkemyst]

My abovequote? wasn't directed at you, it was to somebody else.

Basically I'm doing what you just said, trim fat, then slow bulk. I read every single word over the past few days on the ripped body website, I think I got some good info from it. I think I am going to stick with the routine you laid out with the 3 day split, using RPT. I'll worry about what to do next once I meet my goals.

FTFY

If we are going to help you we need your pics of what you are dealing with because so many lifters over estimate their lean muscle mass like you.

You have posted on these forums for a long time to now come out with this.

Just do a search here on your own posts in H&F esp those you started. You should have it all figured out.

http://forums.anandtech.com/search.php?searchid=2129445

 

[z1ggy]

I've posted pics on here before. If you really want, I'll post them again, but not in here, this isn't my thread.

Not sure what else I can do to estimate my lean mass other than step on a scale, and then use that weight in conjunction with the hand held body fat % measuring device. That's the best I can do right now.

And I'm I don't think I've said a ton of things here that are false. I read a lot of things online including various studies, and take advice from more experienced lifters here like Koing, Zivic, & Speed. Additionally, my g/f is a DPT like sociallychallenged, and knows a lot about the anatomy aspect of the body and how we work. She shares a lot of stuff with me and I'll often ask her questions and try to learn a little bit.

Just because I wasn't on Test and all sorts of other crap to get my muscle/strength back like you, doesn't mean I can't try and help people on here looking for advice. A lot of what is involved in just getting in better shape and I'm proving your fitness is very simple.

 

[Zivic]

My abovequote was directed at you, it was to somebody else.

Basically I'm doing what you just said, trim fat, then slow bulk. I read every single word over the past few days on the ripped body website, I think I got some good info from it. I think I am going to stick with the routine you laid out with the 3 day split, using RPT. I'll worry about what to do next once I meet my goals.

as I see you continue to post I feel like lack of information is not what is holding you back. I am starting to think you have too much information. some conflicting, some good, some bad....

it isn't about how much you know, it's how much you can implement into action. Forget all the fancy fasting and keep it simple. Be consistent with your diet and train hard. If you are legitimately doing that, your body will change.

I worked out with a guy at the gym the other night. he wanted to train arms with me, so I said sure. our scheduled aligned and we met up. He did everything I did, heck, most at about the same weight I was moving...... he has 16" arms, I have 19" arms. along the way I kept asking him how do you feel? feeling full? have a pump? he just kept shrugging it off, saying, well I feel it. By the end of the workout, I could tell, he could have started right over again without issue. I was spent, had nothing left in me. What I am getting at is; Anyone can tell/show you what to do.... can even do the workout with you like in my story, but if your heart and mind aren't in it, you aren't going to get much out of it.

everyone thinks they train hard... nobody really says, yeah, I train like a sally.... but training hard is pretty subjective. in terms of diet, we all lie to ourselves about what we are eating, or how much. that's OK some of the time, but if the lies are what becomes the norm, you won't get to where you want to be

 

[Davidpaul007]

as I see you continue to post I feel like lack of information is not what is holding you back. I am starting to think you have too much information. some conflicting, some good, some bad....

it isn't about how much you know, it's how much you can implement into action. Forget all the fancy fasting and keep it simple. Be consistent with your diet and train hard. If you are legitimately doing that, your body will change.

I worked out with a guy at the gym the other night. he wanted to train arms with me, so I said sure. our scheduled aligned and we met up. He did everything I did, heck, most at about the same weight I was moving...... he has 16" arms, I have 19" arms. along the way I kept asking him how do you feel? feeling full? have a pump? he just kept shrugging it off, saying, well I feel it. By the end of the workout, I could tell, he could have started right over again without issue. I was spent, had nothing left in me. What I am getting at is; Anyone can tell/show you what to do.... can even do the workout with you like in my story, but if your heart and mind aren't in it, you aren't going to get much out of it.

everyone thinks they train hard... nobody really says, yeah, I train like a sally.... but training hard is pretty subjective. in terms of diet, we all lie to ourselves about what we are eating, or how much. that's OK some of the time, but if the lies are what becomes the norm, you won't get to where you want to be

I just want to chime in and say using IF it's the epitomy of "KISS". Figure out your macros (approx is fine) and eat 2-3 meals a day (more or less depending on personal preference). Done!

I agree 100% with what you said about consistency--without that one component nothing else matters. Unfortunately, it's also the most difficult!

 

[Davidpaul007]

I've posted pics on here before. If you really want, I'll post them again, but not in here, this isn't my thread.

Not sure what else I can do to estimate my lean mass other than step on a scale, and then use that weight in conjunction with the hand held body fat % measuring device. That's the best I can do right now.

And I'm I don't think I've said a ton of things here that are false. I read a lot of things online including various studies, and take advice from more experienced lifters here like Koing, Zivic, & Speed. Additionally, my g/f is a DPT like sociallychallenged, and knows a lot about the anatomy aspect of the body and how we work. She shares a lot of stuff with me and I'll often ask her questions and try to learn a little bit.

Just because I wasn't on Test and all sorts of other crap to get my muscle/strength back like you, doesn't mean I can't try and help people on here looking for advice. A lot of what is involved in just getting in better shape and I'm proving your fitness is very simple.

I think that you've done great job determining a starting point. There is absolutely no reason to spend additional effort on trying too determine LBM any closer than you already have.

 

[alkemyst]

I've posted pics on here before. If you really want, I'll post them again, but not in here, this isn't my thread.

Not sure what else I can do to estimate my lean mass other than step on a scale, and then use that weight in conjunction with the hand held body fat % measuring device. That's the best I can do right now.

And I'm I don't think I've said a ton of things here that are false. I read a lot of things online including various studies, and take advice from more experienced lifters here like Koing, Zivic, & Speed. Additionally, my g/f is a DPT like sociallychallenged, and knows a lot about the anatomy aspect of the body and how we work. She shares a lot of stuff with me and I'll often ask her questions and try to learn a little bit.

Just because I wasn't on Test and all sorts of other crap to get my muscle/strength back like you, doesn't mean I can't try and help people on here looking for advice. A lot of what is involved in just getting in better shape and I'm proving your fitness is very simple.

My results didn't change much from the last time I got back in shape because of TRT.

The point is you seem to be informationally overloaded and I think are focusing to much on reading and not doing.

 

[z1ggy]

as I see you continue to post I feel like lack of information is not what is holding you back. I am starting to think you have too much information. some conflicting, some good, some bad....

it isn't about how much you know, it's how much you can implement into action. Forget all the fancy fasting and keep it simple. Be consistent with your diet and train hard. If you are legitimately doing that, your body will change.

I worked out with a guy at the gym the other night. he wanted to train arms with me, so I said sure. our scheduled aligned and we met up. He did everything I did, heck, most at about the same weight I was moving...... he has 16" arms, I have 19" arms. along the way I kept asking him how do you feel? feeling full? have a pump? he just kept shrugging it off, saying, well I feel it. By the end of the workout, I could tell, he could have started right over again without issue. I was spent, had nothing left in me. What I am getting at is; Anyone can tell/show you what to do.... can even do the workout with you like in my story, but if your heart and mind aren't in it, you aren't going to get much out of it.

everyone thinks they train hard... nobody really says, yeah, I train like a sally.... but training hard is pretty subjective. in terms of diet, we all lie to ourselves about what we are eating, or how much. that's OK some of the time, but if the lies are what becomes the norm, you won't get to where you want to be

I just haven't found for me what "works", if you know what I mean. I've tried so many different diets, work out regiments.. Idk maybe I haven't stuck with things long enough to see it through.

All I k now is, I was strongest when I was in high school. I lifted 2x per week and did no accessories like bicep curls and all that. I stuck to Bench, Squat and OHP. When I was 16, I was able to squat 275 for reps, when I weighed like 170-175. I think I will go back to that approach, which is very similar to RPT.

Also, not that I think it makes a huge difference, but I do not have a spotter. I think that limits me some as I can't go 100% all out on certain lifts because I can't afford to drop heavy weight. I try to borrow a person at the gym who doesn't look busy, but often times I can't.

Thanks for the continuing help.

I think that you've done great job determining a starting point. There is absolutely no reason to spend additional effort on trying too determine LBM any closer than you already have.

Thanks. I'll be posting updates back in the IF thread every so often...

My results didn't change much from the last time I got back in shape because of TRT.

The point is you seem to be informationally overloaded and I think are focusing to much on reading and not doing.

You're right, I probably do read too many things. I used to be into the allure and hype of all the BS fitness mags. I've since ditched them.

The problem is, I am doing the "doing". I have gone to the gym 5 days a week for the past 6 weeks previous to this thread. Not that 6 weeks is a long time, but I had been going for months and months previous to that, but not lifting heavy. All my lifts went up over that 6 week time frame. It's just that they didn't start out all that high to begin with. When I stopped lifting, I didn't lose all that much LBM, but I lost incredible amounts of strength, that for whatever reason are just taking a while to get back. I'm not too concerned, if I work at it, much like OP and others here, I will get there.

 

[Zivic]

Ziggy, you just need to keep at it. Your food consumption is everything. You need to really dial that in. Forget the fasting, just take a general macro breakdown and start figuring out the right numbet of calories for you. I try to do a 40/30/30 breakdown.

As fat as lifting. It is so secondary to what you eat. Personally I don't care anymore about the weight I am moving. I don't care how strong I am, I only care how I feel and how I look. I know heavy lifting can feel good and is about the easiest way to overload your muscles so it is effective. At the end of the day it is all about consistency in what ever you do.

I am struggling this time of year. Work is crazy and I'm get 3-4 hrs of sleep a night and training 5-6 days a week. I have lost some definition, but I am staying very full. You just have to take things in stride and do the best you can.

This is a few days ago. Haven't been counting macros/calories for a few weeks now. Just making sure I'm getting enough protein. Bodyweight is 204-206

 

[Davidpaul007]

When i grow up, i want to have monster arms like Zivic....

 

[Zivic]

When i grow up, i want to have monster arms like Zivic....

I'm trying to figure out what I want when I grow up. In my mid 20's I wanted a 500+ bench... And 600+ squat... At 30, I didn't want to be fat and wanted my shoulders to feel good. At 35 I want 20"+ arms, 32 or smaller waist, and 30"+ legs.... Or to reach my full potential... Would like to be as lean as you op. That's definitely doable, just not with my current workload. This winter though I should have no issue.

 

[Davidpaul007]

I'm trying to figure out what I want when I grow up. In my mid 20's I wanted a 500+ bench... And 600+ squat... At 30, I didn't want to be fat and wanted my shoulders to feel good. At 35 I want 20"+ arms, 32 or smaller waist, and 30"+ legs.... Or to reach my full potential... Would like to be as lean as you op. That's definitely doable, just not with my current workload. This winter though I should have no issue.

Getting lean is much easier than building the amount of muscle you have.

Its none of my biz, but i will ask anyway: are you natural?

 

[Davidpaul007]

Ziggy, you just need to keep at it. Your food consumption is everything. You need to really dial that in. Forget the fasting, just take a general macro breakdown and start figuring out the right numbet of calories for you. I try to do a 40/30/30 breakdown.

As fat as lifting. It is so secondary to what you eat. Personally I don't care anymore about the weight I am moving. I don't care how strong I am, I only care how I feel and how I look. I know heavy lifting can feel good and is about the easiest way to overload your muscles so it is effective. At the end of the day it is all about consistency in what ever you do.

I am struggling this time of year. Work is crazy and I'm get 3-4 hrs of sleep a night and training 5-6 days a week. I have lost some definition, but I am staying very full. You just have to take things in stride and do the best you can.

This is a few days ago. Haven't been counting macros/calories for a few weeks now. Just making sure I'm getting enough protein. Bodyweight is 204-206

I agree with most of what he said, however, I think IF is worth the effort. I believe it was critical in allowing me to not only sustain my muscle but add strength [and probably muscle] while dieting down to very lean.

Also, some very interesting things happen with calorie partitioning when you train fasted and follow it up with food...

For macro breakdown %'s are not the optimal way to figure them out. In fact, the % of where your calories come from does not matter at all. What matters is having enough protein (esp while in a caloric deficit), enough fat to maintain sanity (ie, hormonal regulation), and carbs as filler to get you to the desired calorie level.

Zivic, clearly whatever you've been doing works great, but have you ever tried backing off the training frequency and see what happens? I ask because I to used to train nearly everyday and.since shifting my focus too primary movements and 3 day/wk training not only did i not lose any thing I've actually improved. Granted, the training volume a person uses is highly dependent on many factors...probably the biggest of which is overall calorie level.

 

[Zivic]

Getting lean is much easier than building the amount of muscle you have.

Its none of my biz, but i will ask anyway: are you natural?

I have been as lean as you at times.. Just would like to maintain it longer. Just don't like how I feel when I'm that lean.

Yes I'm all natural. I've thought about using. Didn't think it was worth it unless my lifestyle was 100% devoted to my build. I'll look forward to my doctor scripted test Ind 5-10 yrs..... Will I still my natty then?

My macro breakdown is the following:
200-300 protein
60-100 fat
Try to stay under 300 carbs.
For me, the carbs staying under 300 is most critical
I can play with the fat and protein a bit, but carbs I need to be strict on or my weight will go up fast.

I have decreased training volume, but I like to train everyday if I can. 4 days is minimum I can get by with.

My 7 day split
Deadlifts/legs
Chest/calves
Back
Arms
Squats/legs
Shoulders/calves (maybe a few chest fly movements)
Arms

I hit everything twice a week for the most part. If I need days off I'll skip an arm day or just push the split out.

I'm not training with the big weights anymore so this split may sound like a lot for someone really hammering squats/bench/deads. When I was training heavy, I couldn't even do squats and deads in the same week for more than one week without dropping dead the following. I have 20 yrs of gym time now. I finally know what I need to do

 

[Davidpaul007]

Zivic, I'm like you in that I don't workout because I HAVE to, I workout because I LOVE it. If I could train everyday and get away with it I would. When I tried a split like yours above it left me run down, hurting all over, and not making progress. I'm sure it had alot to do with my caloric intake not being high enough in combination with the volume.

When I switch gears to focus on adding some muscle I'm contemplating doing to a 4 day routine such as:
Monday: Heavy Legs
Tuesday: Heavy upper
Wed: OFF
THurs: Hypertrophy (lighter) legs
Fri: Hypertrophy upper

Then again, maybe I'll stick to my 3 day a week and see what happens when I throw more calories at my body

 

[Koing]

Ziggy, you just need to keep at it. Your food consumption is everything. You need to really dial that in. Forget the fasting, just take a general macro breakdown and start figuring out the right numbet of calories for you. I try to do a 40/30/30 breakdown.

As fat as lifting. It is so secondary to what you eat. Personally I don't care anymore about the weight I am moving. I don't care how strong I am, I only care how I feel and how I look. I know heavy lifting can feel good and is about the easiest way to overload your muscles so it is effective. At the end of the day it is all about consistency in what ever you do.

I am struggling this time of year. Work is crazy and I'm get 3-4 hrs of sleep a night and training 5-6 days a week. I have lost some definition, but I am staying very full. You just have to take things in stride and do the best you can.

This is a few days ago. Haven't been counting macros/calories for a few weeks now. Just making sure I'm getting enough protein. Bodyweight is 204-206

I'm in full agreement with Zivic.

Dieting down : FOOD FOOD FOOD

If you eat more than you need you will not lose weight no matter what you do, IIFYM, IF, WHATEVER you decide. You have to count and figure out what YOU need to lose weight.

It's about CONSISTENCY OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME. The longer the better. This is how to build muscle. Slow gains over 6months-3yrs+ is how you get gains.

Ziggy don't compare yourself to when you were 16. You were probably sleeping a lot, still going through puberty and could look at weights and get strong. Hence your 2x a week and get strong. Your body was probably in over drive and the first few years of training or whatever little training you did you would get gains. I didn't do any legs or back for 18months and got gains when I was 14. I went to the gym once a week for a year increased the weights when I could then 2x a week when I was 15-15.5 before I met my coach.

Get a good 6months+ of consistent training pushing the weights up and you will get gains. The diet needs to be dialled in as much as you can to get consistent fat loss.

Koing

 

[imaheadcase]

I could never do "I typically eat 2-4 meals/day. ~2200 cals on training days and ~1600 on rest days."

Myfitnesspal helped me go from 185 to 175. Been doing kettleball exercises. But i'm starving all the time at the 2400cal a day it gives me. I'm 5 10. I think its my job, i work retail and walk 8+ miles every day and also lift heavy loads each night constantly.

 

[Davidpaul007]

I could never do "I typically eat 2-4 meals/day. ~2200 cals on training days and ~1600 on rest days."

Myfitnesspal helped me go from 185 to 175. Been doing kettleball exercises. But i'm starving all the time at the 2400cal a day it gives me. I'm 5 10. I think its my job, i work retail and walk 8+ miles every day and also lift heavy loads each night constantly.

I'm only 5'6" and have a desk job...but even so I have started tho struggle more with hunger as I've gotten very lean. Initially i was at 2500cal training days and 1600cal on rest days.

Calories are definitely dependent on many factors....

 

[Zivic]

I'm only 5'6" and have a desk job...but even so I have started tho struggle more with hunger as I've gotten very lean. Initially i was at 2500cal training days and 1600cal on rest days.

Calories are definitely dependent on many factors....

my work kills me with with my food. today I have been up since 3:30....probably be up till midnight. how do you plan your meals when you are awake for 20 hrs? and then try to plan your training meals when you don't know when you will be training? I work everyday for about 150-200 days so I have my wife prepping food (at least chicken) so I mainly live off the eggs and rice I make myself in the morning and then:
chicken breasts and mustard
bananas
apples
quest bars
rice cakes
almonds
and recently now, some total zero FAGE

today momma did make me some sweet potatoes and I found that to be very tasty

I find noon to 2pm is the hardest of my day. I am hungry, and I am tired. I catch a second wind about 3 and a little preworkout gets me through the training, but meals are difficult to time.

I hit the gym last night and did arms and I felt good through the first half and half@ssed the second half. I was 204.6 this morning and not happy with how I am looking overall, so I fired up myfitnesspal and I am tracking again, it's been a few weeks now since I have been 'tight' on my diet. no more BS snacking or even excess portions, I am going to use my activity working to help lean out a bit. going to try to stay right around 200, don't want to go below 197-198. just plan to keep my carbs as low as I can through out the day. If I feel sh!tty, I'll add them back in around when I train -> some days I make it by 7 pm.... other days, not till 10:30 or so

 

[Davidpaul007]

What kind of job do you have zivic?

 

[Zivic]

What kind of job do you have zivic?

farmer.

 

[Davidpaul007]

farmer.

So physical labor all day?

Man, it's amazing that you have been able to make the progress you do with such a high demanding job. The rest of us don't have an excuse as to why we can't EASILY plan/prepare our food.

I know you've said in the past you feel keeping carbs below 300 or so is key to staying lean (or getting lean) but I would be very surprised if that's really the case--some people are more prone to getting fat on carbs than others, but at the end of the day it always comes down to calories for everyone.

In your shoes, I would drop the protein to 200-240g range and up the carbs. Afterall, that's what gives you the most easily accessible energy to burn during your super long days. Also, carbs are very anti-catabolic in nature.

I'm personally a huge fan of bush's baked beans--a big can of those is cheap, portable, tons of carbs/fiber and best of all, taste awesome (my favorite are the country style). I especially love to dump them over a baked potato. For me, it makes getting down chicken breast pretty fun