I'm not sure I agree with this. It is true that the country would be united about fighting terrorism, but support for Bush would NOT increase. After 9/11 and his promises to bring the terrorists to justice and protect us, almost 4 years ago remember, further attacks in the US would indicate Bush is unable to meet his promise. Not saying that's a totally valid way to look at things, but the idea that people who don't support Bush would look favorably on further attacks after all the noise from Bush and Co...I just don't see it.
I'm not sure I agree with this. It is true that the country would be united about fighting terrorism, but support for Bush would NOT increase. After 9/11 and his promises to bring the terrorists to justice and protect us, almost 4 years ago remember, further attacks in the US would indicate Bush is unable to meet his promise. Not saying that's a totally valid way to look at things, but the idea that people who don't support Bush would look favorably on further attacks after all the noise from Bush and Co...I just don't see it.
I think that if there were a terrorist attack, any sensible person would compare the money we've dropped in Iraq -- clearly a diversion from the war on terror -- versus the money we've spent on Homeland Security.
I want to alter US policies because they are bad, independent of the terrorism they promote.
This is a false dillemma. We don't have to support Israel / Intervene in the middle east OR convert to Islam. There are many alternative routes, including not supporting israel blindly and not intervening in the middle east and also not converting. It's absurd to act like OBL is even close to being strong enough to dictate how westerners live.
That's not what Infohawk was saying as far as I can tell. He was simply pointing out that OBL just doesn't have the strength to force us to do anything, regardless of his wishes or beliefs.
You have to try and think further than 1 or 2 sentences back. My initial post was to the effect that altering US policy WILL NOT stop OBL from attacking the USA. Why would Infohawk bring up what OBL's reasoning, in criticism of US policy, if that wasnt what he was saying?
False. It is all about bringing back the Caliphat and dominating the world. This is Osamas message to his followers.
Its interesting that you falter enough to bring up the uncomfortable truth that conservative Christians and conservative Muslims have a lot in common. It was after all, the Right that created Al-Queda.
If al Qaeda is responsible for this attack, this will almost certainly prove to be a colossal strategic error. The British do not have a history of running away from a challenge. If anything, this will only serve to unite the British people, and silence the various anti-capitalists and terror apologists.
First of all, you have to distinguish between policy and mere rhetoric. OBL is not an idiot. He does have a policy. Just like George Bush says his goal is to spread freedom while ignoring Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, OBL talks about the world being compltely muslim. That's not the core of OBL's concern, as indicated by his 1998 fatwah which he repeatedly repeated. Again, Israel, foreign meddling in the US. This is not even much of a muslim idea. Nobody likes people that help their enemies and mess around in their business.
You have to look at the history of terror too. Declaring war on terror has never helped. It hasn't helped the Israelis or the various European countries that have dealt with the problems. The political solutiosn were always what really undermined terror activity. With the current situation, its doubly easy. The US doesn't need to give up territory or any national security. It simply has to stop supporting Israel in its attempt to take over all of Palestine and it needs to stop putting troops on muslim soil. Very simple and actually in our interest regardless of what OBL wants.
Anyway, if OBL only wanted a muslim world and was completely unreasonable, he'd be lashing out at South America, Africa, Asia (and no attacking westerners in these places is not the same thing) as much as he is lashing out against the US and its cohorts in Iraq. He's more focused with real threats, like the USA and Europe (the Europe that is in leaugue with the USA).
Also, I have no problem going after OBL. 99.9 percent of what we are doing is not that. Even if OBL wanted the whole world to be muslim, he would have a lot harder time recruiting people if the US weeren't consistenly fighting muslim interests at every corner.
Britain has a very bad history in Iraq and Afghanistan. They fought long a bloody wars in both nations. Which is very ironic considering the current situation America is in. Its as if we have taken their place. There was even a song/poem by the British Indian poet Rudyard Kipling about Britains unfortunate escapade in Afghanistan:
"When you're wounded and left,
On Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out,
To cut up your remains,
Just roll on your rifle,
And blow out your brains,
And go to your Gawd,
Like a soldier."
I love these silly national stereotypes. Like France and Spain are wusses, and Great Britain is a proud stud that never backs down. BS. First of all, the channel saved the Brits from Hitler, not their willpower. The British ran away from their colonial territories when the going got tough, just like the French and other European colonialists. And don't talk about the British, talk about the government. The British people are against the Iraq war. The government is just not listening to them.
Britain is a proud stud because they are on our side. I'm sure the Right would have collected a massive array of insults to use against them if they did not aid us in the Iraq War.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
- 16,852
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Actually, it was Saddam's invasion of Kuwait that prompted OBL to create al Qaeda.
OBL met twice with the Saudi misiter of defense when Saddam invaded Kuwait and offered his services - and that of the Muj from Afghanistan since they were just kind of bumming around and didn't have much to do - to remove Saddam from Kuwait. The Saudi MoD turned him down and permited the US on Saudi soil to do the job instead. That absolutely infuriated OBL, not mention it was a blow to his ego which had been pumped up in his own mind after his "heroic" effort in Afghanistan against the Ruskies, and that's precisely when he acquired his case of the ass about the US and the west in general.
Edit: If you don' beleive me, there's a Frontline (iirc) docu on OBL in which the Saudi MoD that met with OBL states this precisely what transpired.
Well they say "even a liar tells many truths". Based on most of this I'd like to send a missile with a middle finger spray painted on it right up OBL's ass. However, many of his accusations are true or somewhat true. In fact, some of the things he accuses us of being guilty of are actually intrinsically linked to the many freedoms that we enjoy; and that I'm actually proud to be in a nation that permits, a nation of tolerance. It's important that in the process of fighting against his ideologies, that we don't lose those things. Interesting, I've never read this before. Where did you find this?
In the real world that we live in cultures clash on a regular basis... Humanity is too diverse for these conflicts to be avoided... If the response to this inevitable conflict is for the offended culture (islam) to lash out by delibrately targeting innocent people and killing them, well than that culture simply cannot exist in the world with everyone else. Thats simply reality. At this point I ponder whether it might be wise for us to use the same tactics. I promise we could kill their innocent people a hell of alot easier and more efficiently than they can. I'm not saying do it... but at what point to we say we are more important than them
-Max
If you used your brain a bit you would see that we say we are more important all the time, sadly it does not end at say, we act by this same philosophy. Just look at the coverage when a Westerner dies compared to the hundreds of Iraqis dying weekly. Many historians and intellectuals say that American foreign policy is to this day somewhat dictated by Manifest Destiny.
If you really honestly think that America and Britain have never slaughtered civilians in humongous numbers, I don't know what to say. But, that doesn't give Arabs the right to do the same. Given human nature though, I would say that their greivances can be easily supported by historical evidence.
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