My respect for AROD (other than his baseball ability) is just about at zero.

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: cliftonite
What's the big deal about the ALCS fiasco?

It wasnt a fiasco, I havent heard anyone cry about it besides you.

a) He never apologized, in fact said he'd do it again if given the chance

So would everyone else.
--How about, no? They asked Jeter for his thoughts on it, and if he would have done what AROD did. "No comment". Again, explain why he didn't stick up for ARod nor advocate his actions? How come Bernie and Posada also wouldn't comment? Please, you don't know sht about how baseball is supposed to be played the right way if you think what he did was right.

b) It sets a bad example of how baseball is to be played, if my son ever did that he would be reprimanded by me and most other baseball purists would do the same for their kids

Hitting people with your catchers mask is a good example?
--Are there rules for a brawl? Um, no. Varitek would have pimp slapped him w/ or w/out the mask, it's irrelevant, and what does a bench clearing have to do with AROD's cheating? Nothing.

c) Nobody on the Yankees defended his actions, gee I wonder why? When did Jeter come out and say that he would have done the same thing? Class act.

There was nothing to be defended, he did nothing wrong.
--Jeter, if he felt the same way, would have had no problem saying that publically.

He's not a team player, it's been stated by old Texas teammates. Ask Texas fans what they thought of him. Hell, my best friends are diehard Yankee fans and they hate him. When a team's fans are repeatedly telling you that they wish he was never picked up, that says something. Especially when he was talking out of his azz this past Spring Training.

I dont see any Yankee fans saying that.
--PM me and I'll give you the email of my friend in NYC. You can ask him. Even he knows how baseball is supposed to be played.

Yes, he is a financial leech. He's overpaid, and if you don't think so then you don't know baseball. Jeter should be making more than him for what he does for the team.

Hicks is paying 50 to 60 million of the contract. Yankees are paying him less than Giambi and Jeter. I am a huge Yankee fan and a huge DJ fan, however I am not a idiot who thinks that Jeter is better than Arod. Just look at their career numbers.
--Jeter may not put up numbers, but he's better overall. How championships has he brought to NY? How many has Arod brought to NY? I rest my case. I'll go with the proven leader and winner ANYDAY over a cheater.

If he was on the Red Sox I would hate him too, nobody cares that he went to the Yankees. We're too busy polishing our new rings, and framing pics of the Boston Globe and Herald.
Congrats on the championship. Preserving those articles for the next 80 some odd years?
--I'm betting you're pretty pissed that your team suffered the greatest choke in sports history at the hands of the Bosox. No hard feelings, but NY's 26 rings don't mean sht for what they'll always be remembered for now.

I never said he didn't put up good numbers. But he's not clutch, and is a choker. Look at his stats during the most famous collapse in sports history. You're right, the Yankees would suck even worse than they already do this year w/out him. Somehow Boston is in first w/out a #1 starting pitcher, that should tell you something.

Hes not clutch? How do you define clutch? Avg with RISP? If so please take a look at his avg with RISP and compare them to Jeter's.

This year:
HR RBI BB SO OBP AVG
RISP 4 45 21 24 .476 .301
RISP W/TWO OUT 3 22 11 11 .453 .310
BASES LOADED 1 12 2 1 .636 .500


Jeter

RISP 2 27 13 17 .341 .217
RISP W/TWO OUT 1 13 8 11 .319 .179
BASES LOADED 1 9 3 1 .500 .286


So much for being clutch huh?
--Arod and Sheffield didn't do sht last year to prevent the collapse. They SUCKED. Jeter has been clutch in bringing many championships to NY. Your comparison of this season's stats are laughable at best, I bet last year you were posting the same stats for Rolen, Pujols, and Edmonds. What happened in the World Series?? Regular season means nothing, let alone a half season.

First off, you should hit preview first, I almost missed your response, it was in the wrong quote area. My responses are after yours above.

 

[cliftonite]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: cliftonite
What's the big deal about the ALCS fiasco?




--Jeter may not put up numbers, but he's better overall. How championships has he brought to NY? How many has Arod brought to NY? I rest my case. I'll go with the proven leader and winner ANYDAY over a cheater.


Your telling me that if Arod was at short all those years instead of Jeter the Yankees wouldnt have won those championships? Please go loko at what DJ hit last year in the playoffs and compare them to what AROD hit. Also look at Arods playoff statistics for his career.



--I'm betting you're pretty pissed that your team suffered the greatest choke in sports history at the hands of the Bosox. No hard feelings, but NY's 26 rings don't mean sht for what they'll always be remembered for now.

They lost one year, big deal it happens. I am not bitter over the loss and I dont understand the animosity of the Sox fans toward the Yanks. You would think the yanks have raped and pillaged over the level of hatred that they face.




So much for being clutch huh?
--Arod and Sheffield didn't do sht last year to prevent the collapse. They SUCKED. Jeter has been clutch in bringing many championships to NY. Your comparison of this season's stats are laughable at best, I bet last year you were posting the same stats for Rolen, Pujols, and Edmonds. What happened in the World Series?? Regular season means nothing, let alone a half season.

If you look at the stats after game 3, no one hit. To place the blame on Sheff and Arod is a bit excessive. The whole team stopped hitting and the relief pitching sucked.


Again I feel no bitterness over last years loss and I look forward to the next 4 games. Despite what you say Arod is still a top 5 player in the MLB and will be one of the greatest players of all time (as long as he does not get injured). 10 years from now, no one will remember his "cheating" incident.

 

[baoytl]

Originally posted by: Tiamat

Originally posted by: baoytl
I don't really have a problem with it. At least he's playing.Sheffield won't play in 'something that's made up' It's not as if the US needs him. This should balance out the teams somewhat. I guess it also depends on the country. If he was Chinese and decided to play for China, then I would have a problem.. although not if he played for Taiwan.

What!!?
Thats an awfully odd arguement...

If he was chinese and decided to play for China, that should be fine.
If he was born in Taiwan, then thats different...

I was talking about "American Born Chinese". I didn't state that clearly. Hypothetically, if there were two American born Koreans, one wanting to play for the North and the other South, I would have a problem with the American playing for North Korea. Just like I would have a (small) problem with the one playing for China. Basically, it boils down to how the relationship is between the US and the other country. And as far as I know, everything is more or less fine with the Dominican Republic and the US. Just my opinion.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: cliftonite

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: cliftonite
What's the big deal about the ALCS fiasco?




--Jeter may not put up numbers, but he's better overall. How championships has he brought to NY? How many has Arod brought to NY? I rest my case. I'll go with the proven leader and winner ANYDAY over a cheater.


Your telling me that if Arod was at short all those years instead of Jeter the Yankees wouldnt have won those championships? Please go loko at what DJ hit last year in the playoffs and compare them to what AROD hit. Also look at Arods playoff statistics for his career.



--I'm betting you're pretty pissed that your team suffered the greatest choke in sports history at the hands of the Bosox. No hard feelings, but NY's 26 rings don't mean sht for what they'll always be remembered for now.

They lost one year, big deal it happens. I am not bitter over the loss and I dont understand the animosity of the Sox fans toward the Yanks. You would think the yanks have raped and pillaged over the level of hatred that they face.




So much for being clutch huh?
--Arod and Sheffield didn't do sht last year to prevent the collapse. They SUCKED. Jeter has been clutch in bringing many championships to NY. Your comparison of this season's stats are laughable at best, I bet last year you were posting the same stats for Rolen, Pujols, and Edmonds. What happened in the World Series?? Regular season means nothing, let alone a half season.

If you look at the stats after game 3, no one hit. To place the blame on Sheff and Arod is a bit excessive. The whole team stopped hitting and the relief pitching sucked.


Again I feel no bitterness over last years loss and I look forward to the next 4 games. Despite what you say Arod is still a top 5 player in the MLB and will be one of the greatest players of all time (as long as he does not get injured). 10 years from now, no one will remember his "cheating" incident.

It's hard to compare the two postseasons because ARod still has 6 World Series to play in

You can't say that ARod on those Yankee teams would have guaranteed a victory. Jeter made many heads up plays and clutch hits, you can't say that ARod would have done the same thing (Jeter has a .306 BA in 22 total postseason series, ARod .330 in 6). Jeter has batted over .400 in 7 of those 22 series, and over .300 in 14 of them.

ARod may have tried to cheat and slap the ball out of someone's hands, who knows? You can't say that NY would have automatically won by losing a great #1 or #2 speed guy in the lineup and replaced their cleanup hitter with ARod, that changes the whole dynamic of the team. The point is that DJ is a proven winner, ARod has proven nothing except he can hit homeruns and cheat. You're right, in 10 years noone will remember him for cheating, they'll remember him as the guy who could never win the big one for the Yanks!

Yeah, it'll be a fun series. Hopefully Arroyo will pitch, so there will be a good chance for another brawl. j/k!

 

[Al Neri]

home from work....

i see argo hasn't responded:roll:

 

[cliftonite]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: cliftonite

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: cliftonite
What's the big deal about the ALCS fiasco?




--Jeter may not put up numbers, but he's better overall. How championships has he brought to NY? How many has Arod brought to NY? I rest my case. I'll go with the proven leader and winner ANYDAY over a cheater.


Your telling me that if Arod was at short all those years instead of Jeter the Yankees wouldnt have won those championships? Please go loko at what DJ hit last year in the playoffs and compare them to what AROD hit. Also look at Arods playoff statistics for his career.



--I'm betting you're pretty pissed that your team suffered the greatest choke in sports history at the hands of the Bosox. No hard feelings, but NY's 26 rings don't mean sht for what they'll always be remembered for now.

They lost one year, big deal it happens. I am not bitter over the loss and I dont understand the animosity of the Sox fans toward the Yanks. You would think the yanks have raped and pillaged over the level of hatred that they face.




So much for being clutch huh?
--Arod and Sheffield didn't do sht last year to prevent the collapse. They SUCKED. Jeter has been clutch in bringing many championships to NY. Your comparison of this season's stats are laughable at best, I bet last year you were posting the same stats for Rolen, Pujols, and Edmonds. What happened in the World Series?? Regular season means nothing, let alone a half season.

If you look at the stats after game 3, no one hit. To place the blame on Sheff and Arod is a bit excessive. The whole team stopped hitting and the relief pitching sucked.


Again I feel no bitterness over last years loss and I look forward to the next 4 games. Despite what you say Arod is still a top 5 player in the MLB and will be one of the greatest players of all time (as long as he does not get injured). 10 years from now, no one will remember his "cheating" incident.

It's hard to compare the two postseasons because ARod still has 6 World Series to play in

You can't say that ARod on those Yankee teams would have guaranteed a victory. Jeter made many heads up plays and clutch hits, you can't say that ARod would have done the same thing (Jeter has a .306 BA in 22 total postseason series, ARod .330 in 6). Jeter has batted over .400 in 7 of those 22 series, and over .300 in 14 of them.

ARod may have tried to cheat and slap the ball out of someone's hands, who knows? You can't say that NY would have automatically won by losing a great #1 or #2 speed guy in the lineup and replaced their cleanup hitter with ARod, that changes the whole dynamic of the team. The point is that DJ is a proven winner, ARod has proven nothing except he can hit homeruns and cheat. You're right, in 10 years noone will remember him for cheating, they'll remember him as the guy who could never win the big one for the Yanks!

Yeah, it'll be a fun series. Hopefully Arroyo will pitch, so there will be a good chance for another brawl. j/k!

So did you hate Arod before the play in last years playoffs? How did you feel about the trade that was agreed by the Red Sox and the Rangers? Did you want Arod then? Or have you always hated him? And what do you think about Manny? Did you want someone to claim him when he was placed on waivers? Is he not a "financial leach" making 20 million+ ? Also did you always feel Jeter was better than arod/not overrated?

 

[cliftonite]

Originally posted by: cliftonite

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: cliftonite

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: cliftonite
What's the big deal about the ALCS fiasco?




--Jeter may not put up numbers, but he's better overall. How championships has he brought to NY? How many has Arod brought to NY? I rest my case. I'll go with the proven leader and winner ANYDAY over a cheater.


Your telling me that if Arod was at short all those years instead of Jeter the Yankees wouldnt have won those championships? Please go loko at what DJ hit last year in the playoffs and compare them to what AROD hit. Also look at Arods playoff statistics for his career.



--I'm betting you're pretty pissed that your team suffered the greatest choke in sports history at the hands of the Bosox. No hard feelings, but NY's 26 rings don't mean sht for what they'll always be remembered for now.

They lost one year, big deal it happens. I am not bitter over the loss and I dont understand the animosity of the Sox fans toward the Yanks. You would think the yanks have raped and pillaged over the level of hatred that they face.




So much for being clutch huh?
--Arod and Sheffield didn't do sht last year to prevent the collapse. They SUCKED. Jeter has been clutch in bringing many championships to NY. Your comparison of this season's stats are laughable at best, I bet last year you were posting the same stats for Rolen, Pujols, and Edmonds. What happened in the World Series?? Regular season means nothing, let alone a half season.

If you look at the stats after game 3, no one hit. To place the blame on Sheff and Arod is a bit excessive. The whole team stopped hitting and the relief pitching sucked.


Again I feel no bitterness over last years loss and I look forward to the next 4 games. Despite what you say Arod is still a top 5 player in the MLB and will be one of the greatest players of all time (as long as he does not get injured). 10 years from now, no one will remember his "cheating" incident.

It's hard to compare the two postseasons because ARod still has 6 World Series to play in

You can't say that ARod on those Yankee teams would have guaranteed a victory. Jeter made many heads up plays and clutch hits, you can't say that ARod would have done the same thing (Jeter has a .306 BA in 22 total postseason series, ARod .330 in 6). Jeter has batted over .400 in 7 of those 22 series, and over .300 in 14 of them.

ARod may have tried to cheat and slap the ball out of someone's hands, who knows? You can't say that NY would have automatically won by losing a great #1 or #2 speed guy in the lineup and replaced their cleanup hitter with ARod, that changes the whole dynamic of the team. The point is that DJ is a proven winner, ARod has proven nothing except he can hit homeruns and cheat. You're right, in 10 years noone will remember him for cheating, they'll remember him as the guy who could never win the big one for the Yanks!

Yeah, it'll be a fun series. Hopefully Arroyo will pitch, so there will be a good chance for another brawl. j/k!

So did you hate Arod before the play in last years playoffs? How did you feel about the trade that was agreed by the Red Sox and the Rangers? Did you want Arod then? Or have you always hated him? And what do you think about Manny? Did you want someone to claim him when he was placed on waivers? Is he not a "financial leach" making 20 million+ ? Also did you always feel Jeter was better than arod/not overrated?

well?

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: cliftonite
So did you hate Arod before the play in last years playoffs? How did you feel about the trade that was agreed by the Red Sox and the Rangers? Did you want Arod then? Or have you always hated him? And what do you think about Manny? Did you want someone to claim him when he was placed on waivers? Is he not a "financial leach" making 20 million+ ? Also did you always feel Jeter was better than arod/not overrated?

I didn't follow ARod much when he was w/ Texas, and would have been excited for ARod to come to Boston only because Boston would have gotten Magglio from the White Sox for Nomar (and replace Manny). For as much money Boston offered ARod, they could have bought 2 #1 starters AND a #1 closer. At the time, ARod would have been a slight upgrade from Nomar whereas getting more big name pitchers to help Pedro was what they NEEDED. Boston didn't NEED ARod, Nomar was a great SS. They needed Schilling, they needed Foulke, they needed pitching. Manny had a bad attitude that year (he was at a bar when he was allegedly sick and couldn't play in the lineup) and I was all for Magglio to replace him. Notice how when he rearranged his attitude (mainly b/c he wanted more fame) everything fell into place for Boston.

Boston WOULD have had ARod had the player's union not stepped in and told him he couldn't sign for less money (he was going to take a paycut to come to Boston). Then of course Henry said fck it, I'm not dishing out 3 mil more, so then Texas got desperate and made an offer to NY that they couldn't refuse. Then the Nomar for Magglio deal fell through, and Boston had to kiss Nomar's ass b/c he felt slighted (and he screwed himself by turning down the 4 year 60 mil offer because of it).

Only after that did I really start to despise ARod, because he could have turned his back on the union and signed with Boston had he really wanted to (and he claimed he wanted to). When it was all said and done, he used it as a crutch to get out of Texas (because his teammates didn't like him) and still continue to maintain his overinflated salary. All the while he was saying how awesome it would be to play in Boston, blah blah blah. Anyone can talk the talk, but if you're not willing to take a paycut then you were lying all along. And that's another reason Boston fans hate him, he planned to do this all along.

Manny is way overpaid, he makes more than Bonds. That's almost 4X the salary of Ortiz. 2.5 more than Ordonez. For the $$, Boston would have been better with Magglio, but things worked themselves out in the end. I think Ortiz's acquisition helped spark a change in attitude in Manny, and he now cares what the fans think (he has a spiffy website) and seems to be having fun now.

Jeter has the rings, ARod doesn't. ARod has always hit for more power, and overall would be a slight upgrade in a pure offensive statistical standpoint. But make no mistake, Jeter is a leader and ARod isn't. Jeter was the guy who led those Yankee teams to their rings at a young age. He's the captain who will rally the troops with a great defensively play, or get on base when they need him to, or steal a base. You can't say the same for ARod except he hits slightly better, but he doesn't do the little things. If I was a manager, I would want Jeter over ARod going to war with me. He may not be as good a shot as your best snipers, but his leadership qualities are worth more.

I used to think Nomar was better b/c he would almost always beat out Jeter in HR's and BA. Then one day I noticed the little things Jeter does to help his team, and realized why he's the captain and he gets so much respect. He pulls the team together and comes through when they need him to, something Nomar could never accomplish.

 

[Al Neri]

hey argo, no reponse still

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: cliftonite
So did you hate Arod before the play in last years playoffs? How did you feel about the trade that was agreed by the Red Sox and the Rangers? Did you want Arod then? Or have you always hated him? And what do you think about Manny? Did you want someone to claim him when he was placed on waivers? Is he not a "financial leach" making 20 million+ ? Also did you always feel Jeter was better than arod/not overrated?

I didn't follow ARod much when he was w/ Texas, and would have been excited for ARod to come to Boston only because Boston would have gotten Magglio from the White Sox for Nomar (and replace Manny). For as much money Boston offered ARod, they could have bought 2 #1 starters AND a #1 closer. At the time, ARod would have been a slight upgrade from Nomar whereas getting more big name pitchers to help Pedro was what they NEEDED. Boston didn't NEED ARod, Nomar was a great SS. They needed Schilling, they needed Foulke, they needed pitching. Manny had a bad attitude that year (he was at a bar when he was allegedly sick and couldn't play in the lineup) and I was all for Magglio to replace him. Notice how when he rearranged his attitude (mainly b/c he wanted more fame) everything fell into place for Boston.

Boston WOULD have had ARod had the player's union not stepped in and told him he couldn't sign for less money (he was going to take a paycut to come to Boston). Then of course Henry said fck it, I'm not dishing out 3 mil more, so then Texas got desperate and made an offer to NY that they couldn't refuse. Then the Nomar for Magglio deal fell through, and Boston had to kiss Nomar's ass b/c he felt slighted (and he screwed himself by turning down the 4 year 60 mil offer because of it).

Only after that did I really start to despise ARod, because he could have turned his back on the union and signed with Boston had he really wanted to (and he claimed he wanted to). When it was all said and done, he used it as a crutch to get out of Texas (because his teammates didn't like him) and still continue to maintain his overinflated salary. All the while he was saying how awesome it would be to play in Boston, blah blah blah. Anyone can talk the talk, but if you're not willing to take a paycut then you were lying all along. And that's another reason Boston fans hate him, he planned to do this all along.

Manny is way overpaid, he makes more than Bonds. That's almost 4X the salary of Ortiz. 2.5 more than Ordonez. For the $$, Boston would have been better with Magglio, but things worked themselves out in the end. I think Ortiz's acquisition helped spark a change in attitude in Manny, and he now cares what the fans think (he has a spiffy website) and seems to be having fun now.

Jeter has the rings, ARod doesn't. ARod has always hit for more power, and overall would be a slight upgrade in a pure offensive statistical standpoint. But make no mistake, Jeter is a leader and ARod isn't. Jeter was the guy who led those Yankee teams to their rings at a young age. He's the captain who will rally the troops with a great defensively play, or get on base when they need him to, or steal a base. You can't say the same for ARod except he hits slightly better, but he doesn't do the little things. If I was a manager, I would want Jeter over ARod going to war with me. He may not be as good a shot as your best snipers, but his leadership qualities are worth more.

I used to think Nomar was better b/c he would almost always beat out Jeter in HR's and BA. Then one day I noticed the little things Jeter does to help his team, and realized why he's the captain and he gets so much respect. He pulls the team together and comes through when they need him to, something Nomar could never accomplish.

That's not fair, really. Arod was not going to defy the union and you can't expect him to. He would've signed with Boston if the union allowed him to take less money, and you know it. I may not be the biggest Arod fan, but the guy is a great player and has been coming through in big spots lately. You know you'd love him if he was on your team.