My new air filter...

[alkemyst]

Even if there is a 1hp increase, it's not worth wearing the engine out faster. The 240sx is a classic, not a throwaway. Leave K&N to the ricers in their DSMs... Oh wait there are no more DSMs on the road anymore because they got run into the ground with K&N filters, hot air intakes, wings, 30lb wheels, and stickers

it's a $500 engine.

 

[allanon1965]

I loathe the K&N, do you know they used to have oil based air filtration in the 50's and 60's, didnt work then, doesnt work now...I cant begin to count how many MAF sensors I have cleaned and ultimatley replaced due to them being damaged by the excess oil from the K&N crap...(ASE Master Tech for over 28 years)

 

[alkemyst]

I loathe the K&N, do you know they used to have oil based air filtration in the 50's and 60's, didnt work then, doesnt work now...I cant begin to count how many MAF sensors I have cleaned and ultimatley replaced due to them being damaged by the excess oil from the K&N crap...(ASE Master Tech for over 28 years)

lol, user error = major bucks.

It works in every field.

 

[allanon1965]

lol, user error = major bucks.

It works in every field.

yes it does, but even the properly oiled ones contaminate the sensors, just takes more time...it is just how things are...air moving thru an oil soaked element pickes up oil and deposits it on everything it touches....K&N has got to have some of the slickest marketing guys ever....right up there with slick 50 and dura-lube lol!

 

[JulesMaximus]

they are knockoffs? They are real FMS rims, bought new. It's in the link I posted to you.

The 240SX is a monster modified. I am still debated to go C5 Corvette, E36 M3 or change my car next year.

I needed a replacement filter. I wasn't looking to add power in it this time...just dual conical is better due to design.

So, they are Ford Motorsport Cobra R rims? It just struck me as kind of odd that you'd put Ford wheels on a Nissan...they look good though. :thumbsup:

BTW-K&N makes a filter for my bike but the general consensus is that it is not at all worth the money because the OEM paper filter actually works just as well...if not better.

 

[Throckmorton]

When I had a 240sx I wanted those wheels too. The styling matches the S14 perfectly

 

[alkemyst]

So, they are Ford Motorsport Cobra R rims? It just struck me as kind of odd that you'd put Ford wheels on a Nissan...they look good though. :thumbsup:

BTW-K&N makes a filter for my bike but the general consensus is that it is not at all worth the money because the OEM paper filter actually works just as well...if not better.

They are 98 Cobra, D178's those look like R54's above.

They are 17x8 and had the perfect offset based on other companies that sell wheels in Japan for these cars. They aren't the super flush or beyond the fender lip types many run.

They are light weight (not ultra light though) and clear my skyline brakes.

 

[alkemyst]

yes it does, but even the properly oiled ones contaminate the sensors, just takes more time...it is just how things are...air moving thru an oil soaked element pickes up oil and deposits it on everything it touches....K&N has got to have some of the slickest marketing guys ever....right up there with slick 50 and dura-lube lol!

well many of the tests are not done by any K&N people.

If one is worried about their air sensor / screen being contaminated a simple hit with MAF cleaner every 20k or so should eliminate that worry. I just had mine apart and it was clean.

 

[Gillbot]

well many of the tests are not done by any K&N people.

If one is worried about their air sensor / screen being contaminated a simple hit with MAF cleaner every 20k or so should eliminate that worry. I just had mine apart and it was clean.

It has been proven time and time again that the K&N filter, even when properly maintained, can contaminate the MAF sensor. There are also tech bulletins out from many manufacturers specifically for this problem.

You should not have to do any extra maintenance just to be able to run a filter.

 

[JulesMaximus]

It has been proven time and time again that the K&N filter, even when properly maintained, can contaminate the MAF sensor. There are also tech bulletins out from many manufacturers specifically for this problem.

You should not have to do any extra maintenance just to be able to run a filter.

I put a drop in K&N in my wife's BMW once. Instant CEL. I took it out and went back to paper filters.

 

[Greenman]

it's a $500 engine.

Then it makes even more sense to use window screen. All you're really trying to do is keep the rocks out.

 

[jlee]

I'd recommend the reverse conical then. Apexi is the best but expensive. It's a 1 HP gain which is a lot for just a filter. The standard K&N cone filter was 1 HP below it.

This K&N is nicer looking and better sounding though than the original standard cone. That's good enough for me.

A

Apexi FTW. Pricey, but I like 'em. I haven't heard much good about oiled filters either - I will stick to my non-oiled Apexi. 🙂

Even if there is a 1hp increase, it's not worth wearing the engine out faster. The 240sx is a classic, not a throwaway. Leave K&N to the ricers in their DSMs... Oh wait there are no more DSMs on the road anymore because they got run into the ground with K&N filters, hot air intakes, wings, 30lb wheels, and stickers

I thought all their transmissions blew up. 😕


😛

 

[dud]

After reading all the negativity towards K&N air filers within this thread I think I'll replace the one that came with my SC4 with a new paper filter.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I'm +1 in the anti-K&N group.

 

[ViviTheMage]

K&N = 45x as much dirt let in

That's what I think too...I stay away from K&N...I can see through it!

 

[BW86]

ever since i f'ed my maf sensor with the k&n's oily crap I only use dry filters now.

 

[alkemyst]

It has been proven time and time again that the K&N filter, even when properly maintained, can contaminate the MAF sensor. There are also tech bulletins out from many manufacturers specifically for this problem.

You should not have to do any extra maintenance just to be able to run a filter.

I would like to see one that actually stated K&N was the actual cause of anything.

It's more misinformation. As soon as a MAF was bad or they thought one was, many were fast to blame the filter.

Like I said, I have had mine in for 60k miles. Had 1 cleaning. When i just removed it my MAF was totally clean.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Boo!!!

Thread title misleading. I thought he was gonna show his new turbo or a supercharger.

 

[fbrdphreak]

I'd love to see back to back dyno tests showing a measurable performance improvement from a damn air filter on anything short of an extremely modified race engine. Unless you've got ridiculously awesome flowing heads, an intake manifold to match, the cams to make the most of that flow and either lots of displacement/big FI/high RPMs, your air filter & intake tubing are the absolute least of your worries for performance.

The original owner of my car has a K&N intake system on it and the only reason I haven't put the stock back on is because I have to relocate the HID ballasts to do so. 🙄 But I will be ditching it!

 

[Throckmorton]

I'd love to see back to back dyno tests showing a measurable performance improvement from a damn air filter on anything short of an extremely modified race engine. Unless you've got ridiculously awesome flowing heads, an intake manifold to match, the cams to make the most of that flow and either lots of displacement/big FI/high RPMs, your air filter & intake tubing are the absolute least of your worries for performance.

The original owner of my car has a K&N intake system on it and the only reason I haven't put the stock back on is because I have to relocate the HID ballasts to do so. 🙄 But I will be ditching it!

Just keep the K&N intake but use a good paper filter... Or even one of those fancy newfangled foam ones.

 

[Apex]

In other words, the K&N filters let significantly more dirt into your engine and clog up significantly faster.

Also, regarding hp gains, chassis dynos have margins of error in the 10 hp range. A "1 hp" gain is mythological. It's testing variance, not a legitimate gain.

ZV

Absolutely agree with you regarding the dirt. IMHO, it's important to change oil in normal intervals and keep an eye on the analysis to make sure it's not an issue.

In regards to the dyno though, this totally depends on the dyno make, model, and condition. There are plenty that do not have that big of a margin of error, even on high HP applications. I've run hundreds and hundreds of pulls on ours and it's extremely consistant, even down to the type of losses experienced due to heat from multiple back to back pulls. This is on a DynoDynamics 450DS.

I'd love to see back to back dyno tests showing a measurable performance improvement from a damn air filter on anything short of an extremely modified race engine. Unless you've got ridiculously awesome flowing heads, an intake manifold to match, the cams to make the most of that flow and either lots of displacement/big FI/high RPMs, your air filter & intake tubing are the absolute least of your worries for performance.

The original owner of my car has a K&N intake system on it and the only reason I haven't put the stock back on is because I have to relocate the HID ballasts to do so. 🙄 But I will be ditching it!

On most NA engines, I've seen only very small gains from a drop in filter change. With an actual change to the intake, I've seen much larger gains, even on an otherwise stock sedan engine on a closed-hood dyno.

Here's a dyno chart:

DynoDynamics 450DS eddy current dyno. Patterson High Velocity 30" 12k CFM fan on pedistal base, fixed distance and angle. Vehicle strapped down once and remained on dyno between install and runs (strapdown pressure can change readings).

Dark blue is a stock BMW E60 M5 5.0L V10.

Green is swapping the stock paper filter with a BMC oiled cotton filter, and removal of the charcoal filter (BMW M5 and M6 have a charcoal filter next to the stock air filter to catch any gas vapors that may escape up and out the intake tract after car is turned off).

Light blue is with BMC oiled cotton filter installed, charcoal filter removed, and intake scoop installed.

Average gains on the M5 for the scoop are 14-16hp to the wheels in this configuration. Gains on the M6 (identical engine) are up to 22hp to the wheels due to different front end, which allows for slightly larger scoop design.

Keep in mind, this is only with a 12,000 CFM fan. Real world gains are higher due to increased air pressure.

 

[Pacfanweb]

I would like to see one that actually stated K&N was the actual cause of anything.

It's more misinformation. As soon as a MAF was bad or they thought one was, many were fast to blame the filter.

Like I said, I have had mine in for 60k miles. Had 1 cleaning. When i just removed it my MAF was totally clean.

Shouldn't be too hard to find, every single manufacturer has had TSB's and SSM's out about oiled air filters for years now.

It's not misinformation....it's based on loads of results in the field.

And if your MAF and the inside of the intake tube was clean after 60k with an oiled air filter, then it wasn't oiled enough. I'd hate to see what the backs of the intake valves look like.

The bottom line is this: It's beyond argument that oiled air filters like the K&N do not filter as well as a paper filter. Not even debatable. You can find test after test that have positive results for K&N's, and nearly every one is either done by K&N or by some magazine that K&N advertises in, which means it's not credible.

It's also true that K&N's clog up quicker, which reduces any flow advantage they had when clean.

They just aren't worth the trouble.

 

[CraigRT]

They just aren't worth the trouble.

It's true

 

[Pantoot]

Light blue is with BMC oiled cotton filter installed, charcoal filter removed, and intake scoop installed.

Do you happen to know if they put the block off plates on too?

 

[alkemyst]

Shouldn't be too hard to find, every single manufacturer has had TSB's and SSM's out about oiled air filters for years now.

It's not misinformation....it's based on loads of results in the field.

And if your MAF and the inside of the intake tube was clean after 60k with an oiled air filter, then it wasn't oiled enough. I'd hate to see what the backs of the intake valves look like.

The bottom line is this: It's beyond argument that oiled air filters like the K&N do not filter as well as a paper filter. Not even debatable. You can find test after test that have positive results for K&N's, and nearly every one is either done by K&N or by some magazine that K&N advertises in, which means it's not credible.

It's also true that K&N's clog up quicker, which reduces any flow advantage they had when clean.

They just aren't worth the trouble.

There are air filter tests out there. Not by K&N.

I haven't seen one TSB proven that the filter was the cause though. These things get created out of minimizing warranty claims and such.

But like I said I really didn't want to get into the whole K&N crap...it's like apple vs pc. My car is still within perfect compression and runs well at 113k with a "K&N" style filter installed since 20k.