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My new air filter...

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Gillbot said:
No, my testing was for internal use only.

Nah, I'll let him claim victory by default. IDC enough to really worry about it. If people are pro-K&N, I say go for it. You'll find out on your own soon enough.
Click to expand...

so since I got the car with about 60k on it and the filter was due for a cleaning, and have gone another 60k since yet still have 175psi compression...what have I learned?

I rev the hell out of this car, 19-20mph the most I get MPG...should be around 24.

I'd like an Apexi filter, but it's about 2x the price for the one that matches and I still have to buy a separate coupler for 76mm/3 inch piping.

I know a lot of people running K&N's or similar from monster trucks to power boats. I have not ran into a K&N problem, but we have brought this same debate up and hence why I was asking this thread not to turn into one. Some even had vehicles with those 'K&N' TSB's yet didn't have issues.

Most of the crowd are at Moroso about every week or out on the water every week or mudding every week.
 
You won't run into a "problem" because you're just gradually wearing out the engine. The next owner will pay the price. You know you can run 87 octane without "problems" right? But would you do that?
 
Pulsar said:
Nope. Wrong.

3% is 3% of total horsepower. So if you car is only making 10 horsepower, then your above numbers are correct.

If you're making 300 horsepower, then a 3% margin of error means you may read 291, you may read 309.

The only way to confirm those readings is to do a number of consective tests and average them. However, there is also potential offset in dyno numbers: when is the last time they mastered them or certified them? (We do it between each run).
Click to expand...

What kind of dyno are you running and how many runs have you done?

We've done thousands now. The margin is far, far less than 3%. If you're seeing 3% precision error, you have a crappy dyno, or crappy dyno operator.
 
Throckmorton said:
You won't run into a "problem" because you're just gradually wearing out the engine. The next owner will pay the price. You know you can run 87 octane without "problems" right? But would you do that?
Click to expand...

I am at 113k on 1998 car. What price is the next owner paying?
 
alkemyst said:
so since I got the car with about 60k on it and the filter was due for a cleaning, and have gone another 60k since yet still have 175psi compression...what have I learned?

I rev the hell out of this car, 19-20mph the most I get MPG...should be around 24.

I'd like an Apexi filter, but it's about 2x the price for the one that matches and I still have to buy a separate coupler for 76mm/3 inch piping.

I know a lot of people running K&N's or similar from monster trucks to power boats. I have not ran into a K&N problem, but we have brought this same debate up and hence why I was asking this thread not to turn into one. Some even had vehicles with those 'K&N' TSB's yet didn't have issues.

Most of the crowd are at Moroso about every week or out on the water every week or mudding every week.
Click to expand...

Run a normal OCI with testing using the K&N vs regular paper. You'll see the difference right away.

Otherwise, there's a reason most (if not all) major manufacturers have a TSB out to dealers for service on vehicles running a K&N or other "oil soaked media" filter.
 
Gillbot said:
Run a normal OCI with testing using the K&N vs regular paper. You'll see the difference right away.

Otherwise, there's a reason most (if not all) major manufacturers have a TSB out to dealers for service on vehicles running a K&N or other "oil soaked media" filter.
Click to expand...

there are TSB's on everything.
 
alkemyst said:
there are TSB's on everything.
Click to expand...

Believe what you want then.

But if you choose to believe the maker of the product you are buying over a 3rd party or manufacturer, prepare for disappointment when the only thing left is a depleted wallet.
 
Apex said:
What kind of dyno are you running and how many runs have you done?

We've done thousands now. The margin is far, far less than 3%. If you're seeing 3% precision error, you have a crappy dyno, or crappy dyno operator.
Click to expand...

I was using the 3% error number just as an example (someone above me had mentioned it). We run 8 dynos at our facility and another twice that at another just across the river. I work at the Ford plant where we build 4.6L 3V / Shelbys / 6.2L's. Ours are much much tighter than 3%, and are cross correlated with the ones across the river to much closer than 3% as well, though I can't go into specifics for obvious reasons.
 
alkemyst said:
there are TSB's on everything.
Click to expand...

Um... no. No there aren't. There are only TSB's out on things that have been returned so many times that engineers decided it's time to write a general procedure for fixing. AKA - the oil soaked media paper causes that many issues. Hell, I've been involved in writing a couple myself.
 
Pulsar said:
Um... no. No there aren't. There are only TSB's out on things that have been returned so many times that engineers decided it's time to write a general procedure for fixing. AKA - the oil soaked media paper causes that many issues. Hell, I've been involved in writing a couple myself.
Click to expand...

And alot of the general populous doesn't understand the research and testing that goes in to those TSB's either. They don't just take rumor and run with it, they do testing and back it up with lab results. Well, at least we did.
 
K&N has a statement on this very issue.

None of the claims have been made by any 'well known' enthusiasts.

It's user error trickling down to the 'everyone gets a second chance' mentality.
 
Pulsar said:
I was using the 3% error number just as an example (someone above me had mentioned it). We run 8 dynos at our facility and another twice that at another just across the river. I work at the Ford plant where we build 4.6L 3V / Shelbys / 6.2L's. Ours are much much tighter than 3%, and are cross correlated with the ones across the river to much closer than 3% as well, though I can't go into specifics for obvious reasons.
Click to expand...

Like how they get a Cobra to come out with less horsepower and recall?

just saying...
 
alkemyst said:
K&N has a statement on this very issue.

None of the claims have been made by any 'well known' enthusiasts.

It's user error trickling down to the 'everyone gets a second chance' mentality.
Click to expand...

Because K&N's word can be taken as gold? Of course they will try to dispute the claims, it will hurt their sales!
 
naw dawg, their statements have been backed up.

what's wrong with the filter tests I posted above that included a K&N?
 
alkemyst said:
naw dawg, their statements have been backed up.

what's wrong with the filter tests I posted above that included a K&N?
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:

As I said before chief:
Gillbot said:
Nah, I'll let him claim victory by default. IDC enough to really worry about it. If people are pro-K&N, I say go for it. You'll find out on your own soon enough.
Click to expand...

Gillbot said:
Believe what you want then.

But if you choose to believe the maker of the product you are buying over a 3rd party or manufacturer, prepare for disappointment when the only thing left is a depleted wallet.
Click to expand...
 
my tests posted were by third parties. I have had a K&N installed for almost 100k miles now. How long does it take to find out the problem?
 
I guess I missed these posts. What tests are you talking about?


How long does it take to find out the problem? Maybe never if you don't notice the extra engine wear from the dirt.
 
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