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My journey seeking to document dystopian NYC

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pauldun170 said:
NYC does have constraints due "land" that keeps its population in check.
There is only so much real estate to build housing.
Click to expand...
While this is a true statement, it isn't a true reason for NYC's housing crunch. That's more due to the recalcitrant NIMBYism that severely inhibits new construction for ::insert arbitrary reasons::.
 
Starbuck1975 said:
Burglary and robbery is down but violent assaults and homicides are on the rise. The city recorded over 200 shootings for the month of August compared to 90 last year.

You’re not going to find hellscape in the gentrified adult playgrounds along the water and main squares. The upper east side and parts of Brooklyn are currently witnessing a very deadly summer.

maps.nyc.gov/crime/
Click to expand...

If NYC, or parts of it, are an urban "hellscape" this year, then it was an apocalyptic nightmare every single year between 1970 and 2000.

Every time there's a year over year increase in murders in this city or that, the political right tries make a huge deal out of it. You might want to look at the historical murder rate in NYC. There were 8x the number of murders in 1990 as there have been so far this year. Similar for 1991, 1992, etc. 2245 murders in 1990 vs. 311 in 2019.

Crime in New York City - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Violent crime has plummeted these past 30 years across the country. I can guaranty you that by year's end total murder in NYC will be less than 80% of the years between 1990 and now. The idea that a single year over year spike is anything other than statistical noise is a lie of Trump and the political right meant to dupe people who are too lazy or dumb to look at historical data.

You are either an active supporter of this lie or a useful idiot.
 
woolfe9998 said:
If NYC, or parts of it, are an urban "hellscape" this year, then it was an apocalyptic nightmare every single year between 1970 and 2000.

Every time there's a year over year increase in murders in this city or that, the political right tries make a huge deal out of it. You might want to look at the historical murder rate in NYC. There were 8x the number of murders in 1990 as there have been so far this year. Similar for 1991, 1992, etc. 2245 murders in 1990 vs. 311 in 2019.

Crime in New York City - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Violent crime has plummeted these past 30 years across the country. I can guaranty you that by year's end total murder in NYC will be less than 80% of the years between 1990 and now. The idea that a single year over year spike is anything other than statistical noise is a lie of Trump and the political right meant to dupe people who are too lazy or dumb to look at historical data.

You are either an active supporter of this lie or a useful idiot.
Click to expand...


Complicating matters is that when you go back to historical data...some of its BS
It was a great idea that has been corrupted by human nature. The Compstat program that made NYPD commanders accountable for controlling crime has degenerated into a situation where the police leadership presses subordinates to keep numbers low by any means necessary. The department’s middle managers will do anything to avoid being dragged onto the carpet at the weekly Compstat meetings…
Click to expand...
 
pauldun170 said:
Complicating matters is that when you go back to historical data...some of its BS
Click to expand...

No time to read a massive PDF. If there is a conspiracy to promote fake, low murder numbers in NYC, then the same conspiracy is all over the country. The plummeting murder rate since 1990 isn't confined to NYC.
 
woolfe9998 said:
If NYC, or parts of it, are an urban "hellscape" this year, then it was an apocalyptic nightmare every single year between 1970 and 2000.

Every time there's a year over year increase in murders in this city or that, the political right tries make a huge deal out of it. You might want to look at the historical murder rate in NYC. There were 8x the number of murders in 1990 as there have been so far this year. Similar for 1991, 1992, etc. 2245 murders in 1990 vs. 311 in 2019.

Crime in New York City - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Violent crime has plummeted these past 30 years across the country. I can guaranty you that by year's end total murder in NYC will be less than 80% of the years between 1990 and now. The idea that a single year over year spike is anything other than statistical noise is a lie of Trump and the political right meant to dupe people who are too lazy or dumb to look at historical data.

You are either an active supporter of this lie or a useful idiot.
Click to expand...
I acknowledged the downward trend overall. The 90s was the last time we had a national conversation on race. There was a socio economic and crime spike correlation to those events as well.

There are of course more explanations than the two you listed.
 
Starbuck1975 said:
I acknowledged the downward trend overall. The 90s was the last time we had a national conversation on race. There was a socio economic and crime spike correlation to those events as well.

There are of course more explanations than the two you listed.
Click to expand...

If you're talking about the Rodney King riots, those occurred in 1992. Both nationally and in NYC, 1992 saw fewer murders than 1991, which in turn had fewer murders than 1990.

I see no historic correlation between murder rates and "national conversations on race." None whatsoever. If you want to make that argument, you need to dig into the numbers and show me. Right now it sounds an awful lot you have a race based theory and you are ignoring the actual data in order to keep promoting that theory.

Go look at the year over year murder stats I linked and tell me where these correlations are please.
 
woolfe9998 said:
If you're talking about the Rodney King riots, those occurred in 1992. Both nationally and in NYC, 1992 saw fewer murders than 1991, which in turn had fewer murders than 1990.

I see no historic correlation between murder rates and "national conversations on race." None whatsoever. If you want to make that argument, you need to dig into the numbers and show me. Right now it sounds an awful lot you have a race based theory and you are ignoring the actual data in order to keep promoting that theory.
Click to expand...
Some people will believe what they see but, in my opinion most see what they believe and can't see anything else.
 
Brainonska511 said:
While this is a true statement, it isn't a true reason for NYC's housing crunch. That's more due to the recalcitrant NIMBYism that severely inhibits new construction for ::insert arbitrary reasons::.
Click to expand...

True to some extent
Based on the conversations I've had to sit through....

A whole lot of people complaining about "The Asians" (or depending on age...The 'O' word) buying up 1 family plots and turning them into shitty apartment complexes.
When someone in our family sold their 2 family home, complete with parking area and garages and "yard", it was quickly bought up.
Most of the neighborhood has been transformed into 8 family apartment buildings where 1 and 2 family homes once stood.
In our case, they have already (illegally) converted the first half where now their is about 15+ people renting out rooms and whatever. Expectation is that when the other family sells the entire place is going to be torn down and another ugly apartment building is going to go up.

Generally the big complaint is lack of parking and comments of how specific groups of Asians treat others in the neighborhood.

Then you run into the homeless shelter and low income house conversation.
"Hey...is that Uncle Tom on TV? Protesting the homeless shelter?"
Twas hilarious
 
woolfe9998 said:
If you're talking about the Rodney King riots, those occurred in 1992. Both nationally and in NYC, 1992 saw fewer murders than 1991, which in turn had fewer murders than 1990.

I see no historic correlation between murder rates and "national conversations on race." None whatsoever. If you want to make that argument, you need to dig into the numbers and show me. Right now it sounds an awful lot you have a race based theory and you are ignoring the actual data in order to keep promoting that theory.

Go look at the year over year murder stats I linked and tell me where these correlations are please.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I was talking specifically about Los Angeles. The Rodney King riots were the lighting of a powder keg resulting from a few preceding years of a crack epidemic, increasing gang violence, unemployment and socio economic disparity.

NY went through something a bit different a decade earlier with the Bernie Goetz incident.

We’re witnessing the same now. The current social unrest is due to a pandemic exasperating and exposing the socio economic disparity and segregation found in many American cities.

But the OP is correct. The gentrified Nimby urban citadels of knowledge worker affluence are largely unaffected by most of it.
 
Again I'm not saying the city isn't in some sort of trouble. It is. But there is no conversation to be had when you have one side politicizing exaggerating mayhem and painting dystopian pictures across the board in order to create panic and accelerate extremist viewpoints instead of coming together and figuring out solutions.

If Trump wins and continues to govern this country as two Americas, blue state vs red and urban vs rural, I will be calling all my state representatives and senators in support of secession.
 
I would be very interested to know what percentage of people who think NYC has descended into chaos in:

1) in America
2) in this thread

Actually live in NYC.

I’m having a margarita in a nice backyard bar with some cool ivy and a nice breeze. Seems pretty nice to me.

Let me guess though, I’m a privileged yuppie who doesn’t know the real suffering of the city. Maybe not, but to people who don’t live here: I bet I know it better than you.
 
Starbuck1975 said:
Sorry, I was talking specifically about Los Angeles. The Rodney King riots were the lighting of a powder keg resulting from a few preceding years of a crack epidemic, increasing gang violence, unemployment and socio economic disparity.

NY went through something a bit different a decade earlier with the Bernie Goetz incident.

We’re witnessing the same now. The current social unrest is due to a pandemic exasperating and exposing the socio economic disparity and segregation found in many American cities.

But the OP is correct. The gentrified Nimby urban citadels of knowledge worker affluence are largely unaffected by most of it.
Click to expand...

Actually the stats show that crime isn’t related to economic conditions. During the Great Depression crime didn’t rise nor did if during the Great Recession.

www.pewresearch.org

What the data says about crime in the U.S.

Federal statistics show dramatic declines in U.S. violent and property crime rates since the early 1990s.
www.pewresearch.org www.pewresearch.org

www.heritage.org

Crime and Economy: What Connection?

The news has become almost routine by now: Another annual "Crime In the United States" report from the FBI, another year of falling crime rates. Since the first useful national crime statistics came out in 1934, the agency has recorded only 16 years during which crime declined, and eight of them...
www.heritage.org www.heritage.org

www.theatlantic.com

What Caused the Great Crime Decline in the U.S.?

After decades of soaring levels of homicides and drug violence, the country’s crime rate plunged dramatically over the last 25 years. What happened?
www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com
 
Jaskalas said:
I believe the two parties living in alternative realities has been well documented.
Though I am glad the work to... understand... it, continues.
Click to expand...

At the risk of ending up in a "both sides" debate it must be recognized that the divergence is highly asymmetrical.
 
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