My Isreal solution

[Mister T]

Obviously both sides are at fault. On one side you have suicide bombs and Arafat, the terrorist,
and on the other, you have the Isreali army occupying Jerusalem.

My solution: Build a big wall and split the land up - like what they did in Berlin.
And have several turrets with 50 cal machine guns. anyone attempts anything, they get shot.

Apparently, they cannot coexist without killing each other...
Maybe after 30 years when everyone grows up, they can decide to tear the wall down.

The only other viable long term solution happens when Israel gets pissed off enough and goes Milosevic on the PLO @ss....
Which I dont necessarily support, nor would any of the middle east

 

[ToBeMe]

I'm thinking they'd just find a way to blow up the wall! Also.....part of the problem is.....in fact MOST of the problem is.......where exactly would you put this wall?????

 

[TripleJ]

If Isreal gets out of Jarusalem, there may be a chance.

 

[ShadowHunter]

<< Israel gets pissed off enough and goes Milosevic on the PLO @ss.... >>



At this point, that wouldn't be such an extremely bad solution....

 

[rickn]

Israel won't give up Jerusalem

As for a wall. You'd couldnt build one tall enough. They'd just shoot over it or blow it up.

 

[Mister T]

where exactly would you put this wall?????

I guess you need to have an uninterested party come in, analyze how many Isreals/palestinians live in certains areas,
propose a plan, that is not radical, rather preserving the status quo. It is not Isreals job to occupy territory.

I'm thinking they'd just find a way to blow up the wall!
build a wall thick and high enough, out dudes with .50 cal machine guns, they have fences about 50 feet out on each side.

 

[TripleJ]

<< Israel gets pissed off enough and goes Milosevic on the PLO @ss.... >>


At this point, that wouldn't be such an extremely bad solution....



That's correct, it would be a f***ing catastrophe.

 

[NakaNaka]

I have a question

Why do the Palestinans have anymore right to Jerusalem then Isreal

This is an honest question I don't know the answer.

 

[Aelus]

perhaps because they have been living in jerusalem for the past 1000 years?

Aelus

 

[TripleJ]

<<Why do the Palestinans have anymore right to Jerusalem then Isreal>>

Well, you see, before WWII the Palestinians occupied the whole of what is now known as Isreal and Palestine. At the end of the war the Brits felt sorry for the Jews and thus decided to occupy some of the Palestinians land. The Isrealies wanted more land and took more by force. As you can imagine, you wouldn't be too happy if someone took over your land would you? Frankly, I'm surprised Isreal think they have some kind of right to live there.

 

[Mister T]

they need to compromise here either way.
building a big wall is the attempt to enforcing the compromise

If anyone know, can you please tell me about the offer that was given the Arafat 2 years ago that he refused?
If I remember correctly, it was an attempt to split up the holy land

 

[Nefrodite]

If Isreal gets out of Jarusalem, there may be a chance.

not a chance, palestinian groups call for the destruction of israel, not for just the simple creation of a palestinian state.

 

[ShadowHunter]

<< not a chance, palestinian groups call for the destruction of israel, not for just the simple creation of a palestinian state. >>



That's the truth. At one point, Arafat was offered 97%, thats NINTY-SEVEN FREAKING PERCENT, of the west bank for a Palestine, and was open to future neogotiation; but he turned it down. The whole Palestinian state thing is BS, they just want every Jew to die.

 

[Mister T]

not a chance, palestinian groups call for the destruction of israel, not for just the simple creation of a palestinian state

Thats the problem.... building a wall will make things more cut and dry. A Palestinine tries to go over it, he gets shot.
Right now its way to easy for them to attack eachother given the current living arrangements.

 

[Tominator]

<< It is not Isreals job to occupy territory. >>



IT is occupied for a purpose.



<< they need to compromise here either way. >>



2 years ago the Isrealis were prepared to give nearly everything they wanted. They were refused.

Go talk about somehting you know something about.:|

 

[Aelus]

If palestinians would get a fair proposition (which includes the return of the refugees), i doubt there would be many prepared to commit suicide anymore. There might be a few exceptions, but natural selection (sounds ironic, doesn't it) would take care of those.

compare it to cornering a scared animal, if you leave a way open, it'll run away, if you don't, it'll come right at you.

Aelus

 

[Amused]

<< where exactly would you put this wall?????

I guess you need to have an uninterested party come in, analyze how many Isreals/palestinians live in certains areas,
propose a plan, that is not radical, rather preserving the status quo. >>



:::shaking head::: Man, how can someone claim enough knowledge to debate Middle Eastern/Israeli policy if they don't even know the history of the area?

Having "disinterested parties" divi up land in the middle east is what has caused half the wars there. The Middle Easterners did not create their national boundries, Europeans did, and did so with no regard to ethnic tribes. Hence, that's why Afghanistan has never known a real peace.

 

[ShadowHunter]

<< If palestinians would get a fair proposition (which includes the return of the refugees), i doubt there would be many prepared to commit suicide anymore. There might be a few exceptions, but natural selection (sounds ironic, doesn't it) would take care of those. >>



Thats BS to the infinity degree!!! Read my post! They were offered nearly everything they wanted and open to future neogotiations and they didnt take it.

 

[TripleJ]

The West Bank isn't the whole of Palestine.

 

[ShadowHunter]

<< The West Bank isn't the whole of Palestine. >>



But it's a big stinkin portion of it

 

[ToBeMe]

Palestine has not occupied Israel for "the last 1000 years"............

• Take a close look at any PRESENT DAY MAP of the Middle East in which you can see that 24 Arab nations completely engulf Israel. If someone can explain to me how "expansionist Israel" has "taken over" the Middle East, please tell me! The Arab countries occupy 640 times the land mass as does Israel and outnumber the Jews of Israel by nearly fifty to one. So much for Arab propaganda!
  
  Now notice the TOTAL area of Israel and Jordan. This was referred to as "Palestine" and mandated under British administration following World War I. How convenient that today's Arab propagandists forget that land east of the Jordan River was also part of "Palestine!"
  
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  From 1517-1917 Turkey's Ottoman Empire controlled what is today Lebanon, Syria, and Palestine. During World War I (1914-1918), Turkey supported Germany. When Germany was defeated, so were the Turks. In 1916 control of the southern portion of their Ottoman Empire was "mandated" to France and Britain under the Sykes-Picot Agreement, which divided the Arab region into zones of influence. Lebanon and Syria were assigned to France... and "Palestine" (today's Jordan, Israel and "West Bank") was assigned to Great Britain.
  Because no other peoples had ever established a national homeland here since the Jews had done it 2,000 years before, the British "looked favorably" upon the creation of a Jewish National Homeland throughout ALL of Palestine. The Jews had already begun mass immigration into Palestine in the 1880's in an effort to rid the land of swamps and malaria and prepare the rebirth of Israel. (There was never any attempt to "rid" the area of what few Arabs there were!) This Jewish effort to revitalize the land attracted an equally large immigration of Arabs from neighboring areas who were drawn by employment opportunities and healthier living conditions.
  
  
  
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  In 1923, the British divided Palestine into two administrative districts. Jews would be permitted only west of the Jordan river. In effect, the British had "chopped off" 75% of the originally proposed Jewish Palestinian homeland to lay the seeds of what would become in 1946 the Arab Palestinian Nation of "Trans-Jordan," meaning "across the Jordan River." The Palestinian Arabs now had THEIR "Arab Palestinian" homeland. The remaining 25% of Palestine (now WEST of the Jordan River) was to be the Jewish Palestinian homeland. However, sharing was not part of the Arab psychological makeup then nor now and they were determined to get ALL of that remaining 25%.
  Encouraged and incited by growing Arab nationalism throughout the Middle East, the Arabs of that small remaining Palestinian territory west of the Jordan River launched never-ending murderous attacks upon the Jewish Palestinians in an effort to drive them out. Most terrifying were the Hebron slaughters of 1929 and later the 1936-39 "Arab Revolt." The British, at first tried to maintain order but soon (due to the large oil deposits being discovered throughout the Arab Middle East) turned a blind eye. It became obvious to the Palestinian Jews that they must fight the Arabs AND drive out the British.
  
  
  
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  The Palestinian Jews were forced to form an organized defense against the Arabs.... thus was formed the Hagana, the beginnings of the Israeli Defense Forces [IDF]. There was also a Jewish underground called the Irgun led by Menachem Begin (who later became Prime Minister of Israel). Besides fighting the Arabs, the Irgun was instrumental in driving out the pro-Arab British. Finally in 1947 the British had enough and turned the Palestine matter over to the United Nations.
  The U.N. Resolution 181 partition plan was to divide the remaining 25% of Palestine into a Jewish Palestinian State and a SECOND Arab Palestinian State (Trans-Jordan being the first) based upon population concentration. The Jewish Palestinians accepted... the Arab Palestinians rejected. The Arabs still wanted ALL of Palestine... both east and west of the Jordan River. On May 14, 1948 the Palestinian Jews finally declared their own State of Israel and became "Israelis." On the next day, Israel was at war with seven neighboring Arab armies... Egypt, Trans-Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Yemen. Most of the Arabs living within the boundaries of the newly declared "ISRAEL" were encouraged to leave by the invading Arab armies to facilitate the slaughter of the Jews and were promised to be given all Jewish property after the victorious Arab armies won the war. When the 19 month war ended, however, Israel won and survived despite a 1% loss of it's entire population! Those Arabs who did not run away became today's Israeli Arab citizens. Those who fled became the seeds of the first wave of "Palestinian Arab refugees."
  
  
  
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  The end result of the 1948-49 Israeli War of Independence was the creation of a Jewish State slightly larger than that which was proposed by the United Nations two years before. What remained of that almost-created second Arab Palestinian State was gobbled up by Egypt (occupying the Gaza Strip) and by Trans-Jordan (occupying Judea-Samaria (the "West Bank" of the Jordan River) and Jerusalem. In the next year (1950) Trans-Jordan formally merged this West Bank territory into itself and granted all those Arabs living there Jordanian citizenship. Since Trans-Jordan was no longer confined to one side of the Jordan River, it renamed itself simply "JORDAN. In the final analysis, the Arabs of Palestine ended up with nearly 85% of the original territory of Palestine. But that was still not 100% and thus the conflict between Arab and Jew for "Palestine" would continue through four more wars and continuous Arab terrorist attacks upon the Israeli citizenry! It continues to this very day.
  From 1948-67 when all of Judea-Samaria [West Bank] ... including Jerusalem!) ended up under Arab [Jordanian] control, no effort was EVER made to create a second Palestinian State for the Arabs living there. Surely you do not expect Israel to now provide these same Arabs with their own country when their fellow Arabs failed to do so! And isn't it curious how Arafat and his PLO (formed in 1964) discovered their "ancient" identity and a need for "self-determination" and "human dignity" on this very same West Bank ONLY AFTER Israel regained this territory (three years later in 1967) following Jordan's attempt attempt to destroy Israel! Why was no request ever made upon King Hussein of Jordan when he "occupied" the West Bank? Is it logical that the PLO was formed in 1964 to regain the lands they would lose three years later in 1967? This sort of logic makes sense only to those who who have not learned that the PLO was formed to DESTROY Israel. And that is STILL their goal! A cosmetic name change from PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) to PA (Palestinian Authority) does not change the spots on THIS tiger!
  
  
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  Throughout much of May 1967, the Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian armies mobilized along Israel's narrow and seemingly indefensible borders in preparation for a massive invasion to eliminate the State of Israel. The battle cry heard throughout the Arab world was then, as it continues to be... "Slaughter the Jews" and "Throw the Jews into the sea!" But the Jews of Israel, remembering 2,000 years of being butchered, gassed, burned and skinned (eg. The Crusades, The Spanish Inquisition, the Arab rampages of early Palestine and particularly the Holocaust), planned and executed a perfect pre-emptive strike against Egypt. Within two hours the Egyptian Air Force did not exist... most of its planes destroyed while still on the runways! Unaware that the Egyptians had no more air force, King Hussein of Jordan, launched his attack from the his West Bank into Israel's belly while Syrian troops prepared to descend down the Golan Heights mountain range into northern Israel.
  
  
  
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  After ONLY six days of air, sea and hand-to-hand ground warfare, Israel defeated all three Arab armies along three separate fronts, taking control of the entire Sinai Desert from Egypt, the Golan Heights from Syria and the West Bank (including East Jerusalem and its Old City) from Jordan. The God of Israel was surely watching over His children! Most importantly was the return to Israel of its holy 3,000 year old city of Jerusalem along the western edge of the West Bank... the same Jerusalem from which all Jews had been denied access for the 19 years following Jordan's seizure and control over it following the first Arab-Israeli War of 1948-9.
  Unfortunately, Israel then became an "occupier" of this "West Bank" and the Gaza Strip along with its 850,000 Palestinian Arabs who were living there. These Arabs would refer to themselves as "refugees" and joined the masses of refugees from the previous war of 1948-9. Once again we see Palestinian Arabs becoming refugees by their own actions, the actions of their leaders and from the actions of their fellow Arabs from neighboring states!
  Israel was responsible for bringing about some of its own problems. The Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza Strip were packed and ready to leave following their defeat. Suddenly the victorious IDF General Moshe Dayan persuaded them to stay. This singular act stunned no one more than the Arab enemy themselves who could not believe that manifestation of Jewish madness! After all, the Arabs knew what THEY would have done to the Jews if THEY had won! Dayan's plan was to educate them, offer them modern medical treatment, provide them with employment both in the West Bank AND inside Israel Proper and to live amongst them in hopes of building a bridge to the Arab world. Israel is now paying dearly for this typically naive "Leftist" gesture. That "bridge" led to BOTH Intifadas and world-wide Palestinian terrorism. From a frightened and defeated enemy, these "Palestinian" Arabs under Israel's jurisdiction turned into a confident, hateful and dangerous enemy now on their way toward forming a terrorist state determined to destroy Israel!
  
  
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  Usually when one side starts a war and loses both the war AND some territory, no one on the planet would expect the winner to give back anything! This not only sounds preposterous, it is preposterous! But the Jews (I hate to admit) had this insane obsession of wanting the world to love them and thus were willing to give back the entire Sinai (oil fields, air bases and endless miles of security buffer) to Egypt for a piece of paper. Thus in 1982 Egypt regained their Sinai and Israel lost a massive buffer against any future Egyptian aggression!
  Israel still occupies Syria's Golan Heights which had been used solely for terrorist incursions into and artillery bombardment upon Israel's northern settlements. The Golan should never be given back to Israel's most vicious enemy! And of course, Israel still occupies the West Bank with it's ONE MILLION TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND (and growing daily AND exponentially) "Palestinian" Arabs. Had Israel done to these Arabs what the Arabs would have done to the Jews had THEY won, she would have expelled these hostile Arabs and made it officially part of a Greater Israel. By remaining an "occupier," Israel was set up for a campaign of vicious propaganda, the scope and intensity of which the world has never before seen!
  
  

 

[Mister T]

I do not claim to know everything here... just making a suggestion

Tominator
2 years ago the Isrealis were prepared to give nearly everything they wanted. They were refused.
Go talk about somehting you know something about

no need to get angry... please educate me, I am always eager to learn...


AmusedOne
Having "disinterested parties" divi up land in the middle east is what has caused half the wars there. The Middle Easterners did not create their national boundries, Europeans did, and did so with no regard to ethnic tribes. Hence, that's why Afghanistan has never known a real peace.

Good point... maybe that isn't such a good idea.... what do you think should be done?

 

[Aelus]

<<

<< If palestinians would get a fair proposition (which includes the return of the refugees), i doubt there would be many prepared to commit suicide anymore. There might be a few exceptions, but natural selection (sounds ironic, doesn't it) would take care of those. >>



Thats BS to the infinity degree!!! Read my post! They were offered nearly everything they wanted and open to future neogotiations and they didnt take it. >>



they declined because israel didn't let the refugees return to the places they used to live. Keeping hundreds of thousands of people in camps packed upon eachother is something arafat couldn't sell to his people, therefor, he declined.

Aelus

 

[Mister T]

ToBeMe,

very informative post... what was your source?

 

[TripleJ]

ToBeMe, that looks a wee bit bias. A bit of fact, a lot of propaganda unfortunately.


And they declined a deal too good to be true? Alright, where's the logic in that? If they were offered basically everything they wanted, why didn't they accept? Geez people, think would you? Sometimes, some things don't add up. That one is very obvious.