My Isreal solution

[ToBeMe]

<< ToBeMe,

very informative post... what was your source? >>


LOL! I just did a search for the history of Palestine and the history of Israel and this article came up on both.......and several times.....

I actually found it yesterday in regards to another thread, but, was checking sources last night and earlier this AM.......exactly what isn't correct in it????? Go check the UN and other sources.....as far as I can tell, it is farily accurate by many accounts of history according to most sources............

 

[Tominator]

Mister T

Sorry, I did not want to attack.

Most of these opinion threads do nothing to educate and there are hundreds of websites and news stories that could. This is serious stuff and imho time is better spent watching and learning. If you had a grasp of the situation you would never have started the thread.

 

[TripleJ]

ToBeMe, just read it. It's completely in favour of the Isrealies. Their land being "returned" to them etc etc. It's all over the article. It's rediculous. Is there anything in that article favourable to the Palestinians? Not that I could see. Smelling a bit fishy? I think so. Hey, I'd love the facts to be fully presented, but everyone should know what you can do with facts and figures. You can construe the argument to your liking with them. I try to be objective in any assessment I make about anything, and it is plain to see the bias in this article.

 

[ToBeMe]

<< ToBeMe, just read it. It's completely in favour of the Isrealies. Their land being "returned" to them etc etc. It's all over the article. It's rediculous. Is there anything in that article favourable to the Palestinians? Not that I could see. Smelling a bit fishy? I think so. Hey, I'd love the facts to be fully presented, but everyone should know what you can do with facts and figures. You can construe the argument to your liking with them. I try to be objective in any assessment I make about anything, and it is plain to see the bias in this article. >>


LOL! Hey JJ&J............I think you need to check a bit more..........I've never posted in support of Israel......or Palestine! This article merely points out the fact that Israel was given the land and Palestine and the Arabs surrounding it were not pleased with it although the backed it fully in the 1800's when Jews went there to restor the land and gave employment oppertunities to thousands.

If you don't like it.........fine! But, find facts to dispute the facts given instead of dismissing what it says OK! BTW....the same site that I got this from also had several articles blasting Israle for some policies, and the USA for it's support of Israel and the War in Afghanistan...............

 

[Aelus]

tobeme, could you please give the link, i'm curious and i'd like to read up on some info.

Aelus

 

[TripleJ]

ToBeMe, you don't understand. I don't want either side "blasted" unfairly. I want a level-headed approach to this, not one-eyed manipulative jargan. As they say in boxing, all I want is "a clean fight." And this article doesn't just point out one thing, it points out that everything Isreal has done has been good, which is clearly not true. If you just read it for crying out loud, it's quite absurd that this could be seen as an objective perspective.

 

[jjones]

ToBeMe, that article is fairly accurate, at little biased but not very much at all, and presents an good picture of the history of the region. It really makes me laugh in these type of discussions how people either don't know or choose to forget some of the following:

1) That area has always been occupied through the centuries and there has been no real Palestinian government. That land has gone from one occupying force to another.

2) The Brits and the French divided up the territory after ousting the Ottomans. The Brits promised the Jews a homeland for their help in the region. They also promised the Arabs a greater Arab nation and promised land to the Palestinians. Land that was doubly promised.

3) The Brits left the region fully expecting the Arabs to overwhelm the Jews; this was the opinion held by most everyone. Every advantage was given to the Arabs by the Brits when the Brits pulled out.

4) In losing the fight for the land, the Palestinians left their homeland because of assurances from the Arab nations that the Jews would be decimated and the land given back to them when they mounted a new offensive to drive them out.

5) The combined forces of the Arab world have been unable to drive the Jews off of the land. Several times the Arabs have attempted this.

5) The Jews pleaded with the Palestinians to come back but the Palestinians refused or those that would have liked to come back were not permitted to return by their own people.

6) Everybody chooses to ignore that Jordan is actually Palestine.

7) There is still a commitment in the Arab world to rid Islamic land of the Jews. The Palestinians are playing the role of pawn to the greater Arab influences, as they always have, to keep the pressure up and instill ongoing hatred against the Jews.

Actually, I could list things like this forever. Some of you seem to consider only the last few years when talking about this issue when it goes back to pre-WWI. This is why I have no sympathy for the "Palestinian plight". They have had their chances and hatred and terrorism is the route they always choose, being egged on by the rest of the Arab world.

 

[novon]

Sharon is quiet the terrorist himself, check up on his background.

 

[MrPALCO]

The Israelis must have complete sovereignty over their God given land. Palestinian trouble makers must be thrown out.

Perhaps Syria would carve out a piece of it?s territory and give it to Arafat and his band of outlaws.

 

[ToBeMe]

<< ToBeMe, you don't understand. I don't want either side "blasted" unfairly. I want a level-headed approach to this, not one-eyed manipulative jargan. As they say in boxing, all I want is "a clean fight." And this article doesn't just point out one thing, it points out that everything Isreal has done has been good, which is clearly not true. If you just read it for crying out loud, it's quite absurd that this could be seen as an objective perspective. >>


Please JJ&J......point out EXACTLY what is incorrect in the article! You may be correct! I can see where it may sound slanted, but, I'm speaking of historical facts contained in the article...........jargon aside, I'm saying the geography, events, and timeline are all historically correct........

Aelus................It's very easy to find as I found it on several sites! I'm also speaking by PM to others but will as soon as I can......(didn't bookmark them as there were several)
In saying that, I do not wish to enter a debate with you on this or any issue................you and a few others have begun getting very personal and taking discussions to the extreme so there are those I will no longer take up a discussion with because I have no use/desire to enter a flame war with heated personal attacks................

 

[ToBeMe]

<< Sharon is quiet the terrorist himself, check up on his background. >>


My God YES!!!! There is NO doubt about this....... Poor choice of leadership if peace is desired IMHO........but, maybe "peace" isn't exactly what is desired at this point................

 

[TripleJ]

ToBeMe, yes, the fact they have presented is correct, but it is the fact they have left out as well as their own opinion that they include that construes the facts. For example:
"The God of Israel was surely watching over His children!" Not very objective.
"The battle cry heard throughout the Arab world was then, as it continues to be... "Slaughter the Jews" and "Throw the Jews into the sea!" But the Jews of Israel, remembering 2,000 years of being butchered, gassed, burned and skinned (eg. The Crusades, The Spanish Inquisition, the Arab rampages of early Palestine and particularly the Holocaust), planned and executed a perfect pre-emptive strike against Egypt." Lovely addition to this article, wouldn't you say!


This type of message is clearly portrayed throughout the entire article. It takes basic year 10 English classes to figure that out.
You must see my point now. If not, poor luck because I really don't like these types of threads. They are circles that go nowhere. Sometimes I try to encourage some good debate but it's hard work. So if you really want me to respond again, plead with me over pm or say something good. It may sound like I am chickening out but I just get tired of threads like this that get bogged down. Sorry.

 

[Aelus]

<< Aelus................It's very easy to find as I found it on several sites! I'm also speaking by PM to others but will as soon as I can......(didn't bookmark them as there were several)
In saying that, I do not wish to enter a debate with you on this or any issue................you and a few others have begun getting very personal and taking discussions to the extreme so there are those I will no longer take up a discussion with because I have no use/desire to enter a flame war with heated personal attacks................ >>



ok, if you can find the site, i'd appreciate it if you could pm me the link.

also, you're right i've gone a little too far sometimes, and i'll probably keep low for a while (both because i'm starting to realize that i've got exams in 6 weeks, and kind of forgot to study, and because i'm realizing i'm fighting against windmills), so anyway, sorry if i offended you.

Aelus

 

[ToBeMe]

<< ToBeMe, yes, the fact they have presented is correct, but it is the fact they have left out as well as their own opinion that they include that construes the facts. For example:
"The God of Israel was surely watching over His children!" Not very objective.
"The battle cry heard throughout the Arab world was then, as it continues to be... "Slaughter the Jews" and "Throw the Jews into the sea!" But the Jews of Israel, remembering 2,000 years of being butchered, gassed, burned and skinned (eg. The Crusades, The Spanish Inquisition, the Arab rampages of early Palestine and particularly the Holocaust), planned and executed a perfect pre-emptive strike against Egypt." Lovely addition to this article, wouldn't you say!


This type of message is clearly portrayed throughout the entire article. It takes basic year 10 English classes to figure that out.
You must see my point now. If not, poor luck because I really don't like these types of threads. They are circles that go nowhere. Sometimes I try to encourage some good debate but it's hard work. So if you really want me to respond again, plead with me over pm or say something good. It may sound like I am chickening out but I just get tired of threads like this that get bogged down. Sorry. >>


Well damned........I'm really sorry if you can't see past that! LOL! Like most media, you have to look past the BS and into the historical facts they attempt to present. In this case, the events are correct regardless of the redoric involved! Would it have been more pleasing to you if the "slant" had been towars Palestine in this particular piece???? LOL!

My point stands........the historical FACTS presented are precise...........I could care less about the "fluff" or if Arafat himself, or Sharon himself wrote it as long as the basic facts are intact!

 

[gar598]

Israel

 

[Texmaster]

<<

<<

<< If palestinians would get a fair proposition (which includes the return of the refugees), i doubt there would be many prepared to commit suicide anymore. There might be a few exceptions, but natural selection (sounds ironic, doesn't it) would take care of those. >>



Thats BS to the infinity degree!!! Read my post! They were offered nearly everything they wanted and open to future neogotiations and they didnt take it. >>



they declined because israel didn't let the refugees return to the places they used to live. Keeping hundreds of thousands of people in camps packed upon eachother is something arafat couldn't sell to his people, therefor, he declined.

Aelus >>




Because they didn't get Everything they wanted they turned it down. If you are really looking for peace you wouldn't be this demanding.

 

[Aelus]

<< Because they didn't get Everything they wanted they turned it down. If you are really looking for peace you wouldn't be this demanding. >>



that statement can get easily turned around. Why didn't israeli want all those people to return to their old homes? how can they be so hard on people who have suffered so long? or are they scared that israel might become a more arab nation?

Aelus

 

[ArmenK]

<<

<< not a chance, palestinian groups call for the destruction of israel, not for just the simple creation of a palestinian state. >>



That's the truth. At one point, Arafat was offered 97%, thats NINTY-SEVEN FREAKING PERCENT, of the west bank for a Palestine, and was open to future neogotiation; but he turned it down. The whole Palestinian state thing is BS, they just want every Jew to die. >>



Uh... the West Bank is not all of palestine, you are making it sound like its a huge aread but if you look at this map... you can see that the West Bank is only 5,860 square Km whereas all of Israel is 20,770 sqyare Km

 

[RanDum72]

My solution is to have Jerusalem under UN control, more like an international city for "all faiths". With the wall solution, who's going to man
the machine guns? It will only give both sides an excuse to blow it up. For right now, both sides should have check points in the borders and check
EVERYONE who tries to cross. I do agree with the Israel position that Arafat and his PLO should have more control over what happens at his
own side of the border. Seems like Arafat is just paying lip service, expressing "sorrow" over attacks while not doing anything about it anyway.
He will say this and does something else behind your back. At least, the Israelis are straightforward with their intentions. If both sides don't compromise,
their conflict will only end with the complete annihilation of either the Israelis or the Palestinians. Well, actually, it won't end if the Palestinians are erased from this world,
Israel then would have to deal with the rest of the Arab, if not the Muslim, world.

 

[Red Dawn]

My solution. Cut off all aid to both sides, expell all their citizens from the US (including their diplomats) and oust them from the UN and all other World Organizations. They both want to act like pariahs then we should treat them like pariahs. The world would be better off without either of them.

 

[Aelus]

Cyprus is a pretty good example of what UN interventions can realize. They have had the same border (with barbed wire, and lots of soldiers) for a while now, and you rarely hear of violence, both sides live separately, and it's extremely hard to get from one side to another, but still a UN command of jeruzalem could be a good thing, even if it only meant a ceasing of violence.

Aelus