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My 2011 goal: to be as savage as possible...

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CO2 really? That causes the sensation of suffocation. Nitrogen is equally lethal and does not cause the body to feel like it's in distress. Helium, Argon, or Nitrous Oxide would also work. Interesting that a government mandate on humane treatment would force inhumane treatment. Well... less humane than it could be. Then again, duck, duck GOOSE!

yes, it's completely backwards. IACUC is the mandating body that enforces these policy. For the longest time--cervical dislocation or even decapitation were generally regarded as the most humane methods. Then, for whatever reason, a general consensus emerged that the seeming violence of these methods were in themselves considered inhumane, and the CO2 method became the norm.

Actually, much like what bfdd was implying, this is more a policy of transferring the emotions and comfort of the researcher into that of the animal--CO2 is less messy for the person--you shove them in a tub and pump in CO2, the person doesn't have to get their hands dirty.

Of course, IACUC doesn't sit around and actually do any of this--Perhaps if they spent their days watching mice and rats claw and tear at each other as they scramble to escape their death chambers, they might think twice.

If you have several tubs of mice that need to go down, you have to hide the others from view of those that are being pumped CO2--it is visually distressful to the mice to watch the other mice drown. I have first-hand experience with this, which is why I think guys like bfdd don't really know what they're talking about when they seem to assume what animals feel and what they think--all it takes is a little exposure to start to understand.
 
I'm saying it doesn't fucking matter if it's torture. It's only torture to YOU or ME because we view it as such, how do you know the goose does? You don't, you're assuming such and your assumptions are faulty because the animal does not think like us at all. It can't, it doesn't have the kind of brain we do. Yes it sucks that people treat animals like shit and the conditions of soem factory farms are appalling, but I'm not going to scream inhumane and all this nonsense of how FOOD was treated before it got cooked. It doesn't matter if it's alive with shiny eyes or not, the pumpkin did choose to be stuffed full of all the nutrients it was either but you and others don't seem to give a fuck. Yeah yeah animals blah blah whatever.

ps animals used in testing are different than animals used for food.

purpose bred is purpose bred. how is that different?


DO you honestly assume that a goose enjoys having a horn shoved down its neck and is force-fed piles of corn as it continues to vomit up corn?


btw, a pumpkin is not a sentient being you blooming hippy.

😀


but seriously, what is your experience with animal physiology and behavior? Are you going to try to and spit out a bunch of shit based on completely inexperienced assumptions...and do you you really want to take me on this?
 
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yes, it's completely backwards. IACUC is the mandating body that enforces these policy. For the longest time--cervical dislocation or even decapitation were generally regarded as the most humane methods. Then, for whatever reason, a general consensus emerged that the seeming violence of these methods were in themselves considered inhumane, and the CO2 method became the norm.

Actually, much like what bfdd was implying, this is more a policy of transferring the emotions and comfort of the researcher into that of the animal--CO2 is less messy for the person--you shove them in a tub and pump in CO2, the person doesn't have to get their hands dirty.

Of course, IACUC doesn't sit around and actually do any of this--Perhaps if they spent their days watching mice and rats claw and tear at each other as they scramble to escape their death chambers, they might think twice.

If you have several tubs of mice that need to go down, you have to hide the others from view of those that are being pumped CO2--it is visually distressful to the mice to watch the other mice drown. I have first-hand experience with this, which is why I think guys like bfdd don't really know what they're talking about when they seem to assume what animals feel and what they think--all it takes is a little exposure to start to understand.

I agree, bfdd is being silly. Animals obviously feel the same range of emotions and sensations when dying that we do.

Get those fuckers to change it to Nitrogen! Then again, 999,999 out of every 1,000,000 animals that ever lived died thrashing and screaming in the jaws of another, or starved, or starved, and then got picked to death by scavengers, or burned alive.
 
I agree, bfdd is being silly. Animals obviously feel the same range of emotions and sensations when dying that we do.

Get those fuckers to change it to Nitrogen! Then again, 999,999 out of every 1,000,000 animals that ever lived died thrashing and screaming in the jaws of another, or starved, or starved, and then got picked to death by scavengers, or burned alive.

well, the truth is that most research labs that work with mice do cervical dislocation anyway. It's quicker and more efficient, actually. And it's completely instant. I forget the gas--maybe it's a ketamine derivative or something? but some institutions require that instead of CO2.

You often find the gas chambers in a lab just to have them on hand for inspection--but no one uses them. :\

funny thing is, CO2 isn't even entirely effective: it doesn't work on pups (takes at least 10x longer exposure, still not guaranteed), and you often have some techs that will leave a few mice in the chamber that are still breathing, and end up tossing them into the morgue in bags of dead mice. of course...those guys eventually wake up and go nuts. This is a HUGE violation. whenever that happens, the new policy is to CO2, then cervical dislocation. it's silly, because it takes ~3 seconds to pin a mouse to a cage and break it's neck. that 3 seconds of stress is nothing compared to 4 or 5 minutes in the suffocation chamber. Why put them through that if you have to break their necks anyway?

it's ridiculous.
 
anyway, didn't mean to derail the thread, NS1.

🙁

no worries, at the end of the day foie is still delicious and vegas is only 6 hours away!

foiegras.jpg
 
Meh, they are not treated any worse than a lot of the livestock we eat on a daily basis and honestly, from what I have seen, most of the foie gras places here are small, family owned businesses that treat their animals quite well as it is better for their product. I'm sure a lot of the crap you put in your gullet was treated far worse prior to you consuming it.

KT

Edit: foie gras is freakin awesome BTW.

huh treat them better you say? I've seen videos, they force feed them thru a tube until they puke and then feed them some more.
 
huh treat them better you say? I've seen videos, they force feed them thru a tube until they puke and then feed them some more.

Just think, binging like that was all the rage in ancient Rome... only the wealthiest ones could afford to do that of course...
 
Did you become wealthy all of a sudden, Ns1? That shit is expensive.

My theory is that the actual pain of the force feeding is what makes it taste so good. All that adrenaline and shit coursing through their bodies adds interesting flavors.
 
Did you become wealthy all of a sudden, Ns1? That shit is expensive.

My theory is that the actual pain of the force feeding is what makes it taste so good. All that adrenaline and shit coursing through their bodies adds interesting flavors.

it's not like I eat like this all the time =P Food is one of my major hobbies though so my yearly food expense is astronomical.
 
huh treat them better you say? I've seen videos, they force feed them thru a tube until they puke and then feed them some more.

Yes, the preparation of the foie at its base is pretty much the same the world round, but the other surroundings and treatment are both better from what I have seen.

KT
 
I do not like the taste and texture of foi gras. I also think it's a rather absurd, uh...inhumane and savage way to create food.


I also think the various bans are freaking insane.

the geese have no gag reflex and properly made foi gras is made in a very controlled manner. IIRC the geese naturally undergo worse conditions than what the foi gras process does to them.
 
never had it...always wanted to, as a foodie its one of those things you have to try...but i dont go to places that actually make it, because...well, id rather cook my own or buy good beer. or something.
 
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