Originally posted by: Mwilding
How the hell did Robin Yount win a Cy Young award?
I think that guy's watching cricket or something.
I think that guy's watching cricket or something.
- Mar 31, 2003
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Yet you quoted the last 7 games where they weren't in a losing streak. The 7 games I selected, as you pointed out, were when they had their second 7 game losing streak.
Then you ask how I got my numbers....I wrote every step out. Do I need to tell you how to divide the numbers!?!?!
I said Pujols hit .370 during the final 7 games. I said he hit .320 during the 7 game slide. I posted his and the teams stats for those games. I never said his avg ever reached .370...do you even know baseball or are you purposely being stupid.
I said the Phillies were far superior in generating runs because they had 50 more runs for the season. I showed that in the rankings. The Phillies were 1st in the NL in Run this year, while the Cards were what 6th?? I just displayed the avg to show how much more the Phillies capitalized with RISP. However it appears that they didn't hit much else. The 1st ranked offense as opposed to the 6th is a HUGE difference. If you can't tell there is a huge delta between 1 and 6 I cant help you.
I SUPPORTED you in the pitching department saying the Cardinals did, in fact have the better pitching, however it wasn't like a 1st ranked offense vs. a 6th. Their ERA was .06 points off. That is truly miniscule anyway you cut it.
I just proved in every category that Pujols was clearly superior to Howard. Howard drove his team ALMOST to the playoffs. Yet ultimately he wasn't valuable enough to drive them to the ultimate prize, which is not the MVP but the world series.
Additionally, are you forgetting that Pujols had a first half in which he scored more runs and hit more homeruns than most hit in an entire year?!? He missed 19 games, yet still managed to play good enough for his team to make the playoffs. He missed 19 games, yet he still managed to come second in the only stats he lost to Howard. He missed 19 games but only lost to Howard in 3 stats!!!
Ill be honest, I wanted Pujols to win, as you said, but it is crystal f***** clear why he should I have. I spelled everything out for you. Do you want me to write a program that reads it as well?!?!?
-Kevin
BlueWeasel
Lifer
- Jun 2, 2000
- 15,944
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Originally posted by: DayLaPaul
Originally posted by: Mwilding
How the hell did Robin Yount win a Cy Young award?
I think that guy's watching cricket or something.
:laugh:
I don't know anything about baseball. I didn't realized that the MVP award was based on regular season play and that the voting is done before the season ends.
"Yet ultimately he wasn't valuable enough to drive them to the ultimate prize, which is not the MVP but the world series. "
I'm so wrong. Sorry about that.
You can argue all you want. Here's what won the award.
He hit .355 with 30 homers and 78 RBIs in the second half as the Phillies fell three wins short of the NL wild-card berth.
He slugged 30 homers in only 75 games after the All-Star break, highlighted by a 14-homer month of August when the Phillies won 18 games to climb back into the race.
Twenty-three of Howard's homers put Philadelphia ahead and five tied games.
All this from a second year player.
Live with it. He had a monster second half and won the award. Cry all you want. It's done with. I'm not going to sit here and argue this back and forth. RYAN HOWARD WON!!!!!!!
Miramonti
Lifer
- Aug 26, 2000
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Michael Jordan was theoretically robbed when the Charles Barkley and Karl Malone won MVP awards. They never had a better season nor a greater impact on their team than MJ did, yet voters want to reward other players as well for various legitimate reasons.
I don't see any reason Pujols shouldn't have gotten it this year, but he won it last year and that is instantly going to make it tougher (especially for such a young player.) Howard is very deserving, so congratulate him, and move on.
I don't see any reason Pujols shouldn't have gotten it this year, but he won it last year and that is instantly going to make it tougher (especially for such a young player.) Howard is very deserving, so congratulate him, and move on.
- Mar 31, 2003
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Oh don't get me wrong, I am very happy for Howard. It just annoys me that year after year HR's and RBI's are becoming the only factor involved in MVP voting.
As I said earlier Pujols broke the record (or tied it I cant remember) for the most game winning RBI's in a single season. He far outpaced any other competition including, to my disbelief David Ortiz.
As for the after the all star break surge, did you not read what I said? Pujols had a monster first half in which he became the fastest to 19 HR's, in which he broke the record for HR's in May (Or April) all the while he was out for 19 Games. Pujols played the same (Only with a higher avg and avg with RISP) with 19 less games to perform.
Don't get me wrong. As I stated in my first post and multiple times since then, Howard was deserving of the award, but Pujols continues, year after year, to be the best player in baseball, yet somehow no matter what he does he has only won 1 MVP.
-Kevin
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
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Most valuable player is also supposed to be just that. The most valuable player. The players are in a relative "PUSH" based on the stats you threw up there so we have to then look at the teams around the players. IMHO the Reds are a much weaker team without Howard than the Cardinals would be without Pujols. Neither is replaceable but I believe Howard means more to the Reds than Pujols to the Cards.
Just an opinion.
Personally I think Pujols should have gotten it because of all of the times he's been beaten by Barry. But hey, you're supposed to look at it one year at a time.
Just an opinion.
Personally I think Pujols should have gotten it because of all of the times he's been beaten by Barry. But hey, you're supposed to look at it one year at a time.
SP33Demon
Lifer
- Jun 22, 2001
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Listen, forget the 7 game slide, compare BOTH OF THEIR LAST MONTH OF OFFENSIVE STATS. Howard finished stronger than Pujols in the last month of stats with the Phils missing the playoffs by a couple games. While Pujols didn't play bad during the 7 game slide, he most certainly could not compare to Howard's 2006 finish in September.
Pujols: 106AB, 9HRs, 11K, .368avg, 27RBI, 19BB. .464OBP, .679SLG, and 1.143OPS
Howard: 93AB, 9HRs, 30K, .387avg, 20RBI, 35BB, .561OBP, .763SLG, and 1.324OPS
Argue all you want, but this is the main reason why voters went for Howard.
Next, look at how many times Howard was intentionally walked... then look at when he was intentionally walked with MEN ON BASE (some in late and close situations, don't have this stat on me but it was ridiculous last I checked with even rival teams like the Marlins walking with a man on in extra innings). Int walks is a sign of respect and fear, and while Pujols had 26, Howard had 37. Would Pujols have made up the 11 in 19 games? Maybe, but most likely not. Pujols is more clutch but managers CLEARLY didn't want anything to do with Howard this year.
Last but not least, Pujols already won it last year, congratulate Howard on WHAT HE DID THIS YEAR, not "what if" with Pujols' missed 19 games. Maybe Pujols would have had a horrible slump, who the heck knows? Congratulate the better, healthier man and give him props for his accomplishment.
SP33Demon
Lifer
- Jun 22, 2001
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No, it's not. Read what I posted above again, Howard CRUSHED Pujols by 181 OPS points in September, when his team needed him most. Howard had 11 more Int walks, 37 to 26 which means he was feared just as much if not more by opposing managers. And all that is aside from Howard winning the HR/RBI categories. I think there's enough spilled milk in this thread to feed a third world country. *wink* The only, and I mean the only, categories that you can say Pujols handily won was RISP and batting average. That's not enough to make up for Howard's monster September nor Int walks, and the voters agreed.
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
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Originally posted by: SP33Demon
The Reds? Rofl, you should stick to college football man.
Rofl as soon as I started reading your respnse I was thinking crap... did I say the Reds instead of the Phillies?
Was just going through some old clothes (back home for Thanksgiving) and saw some old Reds t-shirts from when I was a kid. Must have made a lasting impression on my brain. Usually, Pujols would have edged out for the award because the Cards made the playoffs and the Phillies didn't.
However, the Cards backdoored into the playoffs. And the voters probably looked at Howard's 58 HR and figured it's worth about 70 HR in the 'roids era. Too bad for Pujols he strained his oblique and missed time.
However, the Cards backdoored into the playoffs. And the voters probably looked at Howard's 58 HR and figured it's worth about 70 HR in the 'roids era. Too bad for Pujols he strained his oblique and missed time.
- Mar 31, 2003
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That is one month!! Pujols won every other stat except HR, RBI, and hits (If you want to get picky you can argue IBB's).
Look I know this isn't going to change anything, and I know Howard was very deserving it just seems to me like the MVP voting is getting out of hand. Last year, Andruw Jones came very close to winning it because he hit more HR's and drove in more Runs than Pujols. I cant imagine next year. What if Pujols hits .600 with RISP hits 51 HR and has a .350 AVG and loses again because someone hits 60HR.
The main purpose of this article was to state and prove that people look at HR's and RBI's far too much.
-Kevin
SP33Demon
Lifer
- Jun 22, 2001
- 27,928
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Just one month? The Cards almost choked themselves out of the playoffs, and the Phillies almost surged into them. Howard beat Pujols in the every major offensive statistic except RBI (he was walked over 1/3 of his AB's ROFL) in the most critical time of year and that weighs heavy on the voters.
IBB is also huge because it's a show of respect by opposing managers, even rival managers were walking him in EXTRA INNINGS just b/c they didn't want to take the blame in case Howard popped one and ended the game. For example it's part of my argument why Jeter didn't deserve MVP: Nobody is scared of his singles (aside from the fact his late and close numbers weren't all that impressive either, but that's for another day).
You're so freaking hypocritical. You keep saying "the race was won because of HR and RBI".
It doesn't matter that Howard had a great september, but it matters that Pujols hit so and so HR's in this month (but you complain about Howard winning because of HR, LOL). He want us to know that he hit this many RBI or this and this. But everything about Howard is "unimportant" or "doesn't mater". LAME
Dude, your bias is blinding you. Pujols could have won all categories, but it doesn't matter. His team almost lost a NINE GAME lead at the end of the season. He also missed 1/8 of the season.
We keep trying to point out to you that it's MOST VALUABLE PLAYER. NOT WHO POSTED THE BEST STATS OR BROKE SOME RECORD ONE MONTH.
What do we have to do to get it through your head. Howard had a MONSTER second half. NOT just because of stats, because he almost single handedly got his team into the playoffs. His team rode him and won 18 games in August and they played good in Sep. Cardinals almost had one of the largest collapses in history.
One more time. IT'S NOT ABOUT STATS. Howard was the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER to his team over the course of the year. The phillies traded players and have a team that was supposed to finish at the bottom of their division. They almost made the playoffs because a second year player killed the ball in the second half and brought fun, leadership and hit the heck outta the ball.
The voters agreed. They voted and Howard won many awards.
Guess what?
RYAN HOWARD WON!!!!!
- Mar 31, 2003
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And your bias is blinding you. Pujols single handedly carried his team to all the victories in the first half.
As I said earlier, you keep telling me how much Howard helped his team. Pujols had more game winning RBI's than anyone else in the majors by far. THAT is helping his team.
-Kevin
Hard to "carry" your team when - using your quote:
"Keep in mind that was including the fact that he missed 19 GAMES."
Your a fanboy that twist everything your way to try to win.
Not to mention, first half doesn't ultimately mean jack. Howard carried his team almost to the playoffs and had a killer second half.
Guess what?
RYAN HOWARD WON!!!!!!
FYI: I'm not Bias idiot. I'm a BRAVES fan. I hate the Phillies and the Cards equally! That's why I never said I'd get into the Jones argument. Get a clue, you're the fanboy here.
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