MVP Voting has become a joke in MLB

[Gamingphreek]

First off let me say I am a Cardinals fan, regardless I will try to stay as unbiased as possible.

NL MVP:
What in the world happened here!!??

Pujols vs. Howard
143----159 | Games player: Not a winnable stat, but Howard played in more Games therefore had the ability to contribute more to his team.
535----581 | AB : Not a winnable stat, but more games generally equals more AB's
119----104 | Runs: Pujols
177----182 | Hits: Howard, Keep in mind Pujols played in 16 less games
33----- 25 | 2B: Pujols
1-------1 | 3B: Tie, Unimportant for these players though
49----- 58 | HR: Howard, Once again keep in mind that Pujols had 16 less games
137----149 | RBI: Howard, " "
92----- 108 | Walks: Not really winnable, but Howard, " "
50----- 181 | Strikeouts: Pujols, HUGE difference, 131 less strikeouts
7--------0 | SB: Pujols
2--------0 | CS: NA since Howard didn't steal a base
.331--- .313 |BA: Pujols
.431--- .425 |OBP: Pujols
.671--- .659 |SLG: Pujols
1.102- 1.084|OPS: Pujols

Now for the stats that actually mean something more:

w/ RISP: Pujols had 14 HR's, 88 RBI's, and 44 BB's with an unreal .397 BA. Howard had 12 HR's, 83 RBI, 49 walks, with an abysmal (For a hitter of Howards caliber) .256 BA
Close and late: Pujols had 10 HR's, 26 RBI, 19 BB's, and a .319 BA. Howard had 8 HR, 22 RBI's, and 24 BB's with a .290 BA.
Scoring Position 2 Out: 5 HR's, 34 RBI, 16 walks and a .435 BA. Howard had 5 HR's, 33 RBI, 31 BB's, and a horrid .241 BA.
Men On 2 Out: Pujols had 8 HR's, 41 RBI, 22 BB's and a .384 BA. Howard had 11 HR's, 47 RBI, 45 walks, and an even more horrid .227 BA.

Finally, there are two other things that need to be brought to light. Pujols literally carried the team into the playoffs and then to the World Series. Howards team finished 3rd runner up for the play offs. Not only that, Pujols won a Gold Glove. Howard is improving at defense but still no where near that good yet.

Point being this entire MVP race was decided by 2 horribly overrated Fantasy Stats. HR's and RBI's.

Very poor job voting.

-Kevin
(*Note this is not to discredit Ryan Howard in the slightest. He is an extraordinary player, with incredible power. Not only that he is just as classy off the field as he is on it. However in my opinion he should have won the Silver Slugger not the MVP.*)

*Ill try to figure out why in the world Derek Jeter didn't win over Justin Morneau in a couple minutes*

 

[KaChow]

It's a conspiracy.

 

[schneiderguy]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

*Ill try to figure out why in the world Derek Jeter didn't win over Justin Morneau in a couple minutes*

Jeter is on the yankees, therefore he sucks and is undeserving of the MVP award. :Q

 

[BUrassler]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
First off let me say I am a Cardinals fan, regardless I will try to stay as unbiased as possible.

NL MVP:
What in the world happened here!!??

Pujols vs. Howard
143----159 | Games player: Not a winnable stat, but Howard played in more Games therefore had the ability to contribute more to his team.
535----581 | AB : Not a winnable stat, but more games generally equals more AB's
119----104 | Runs: Pujols
177----182 | Hits: Howard, Keep in mind Pujols played in 16 less games
33----- 25 | 2B: Pujols
1-------1 | 3B: Tie, Unimportant for these players though
49----- 58 | HR: Howard, Once again keep in mind that Pujols had 16 less games
137----149 | RBI: Howard, " "
92----- 108 | Walks: Not really winnable, but Howard, " "
50----- 181 | Strikeouts: Pujols, HUGE difference, 131 less strikeouts
7--------0 | SB: Pujols
2--------0 | CS: NA since Howard didn't steal a base
.331--- .313 |BA: Pujols
.431--- .425 |OBP: Pujols
.671--- .659 |SLG: Pujols
1.102- 1.084|OPS: Pujols

Now for the stats that actually mean something more:

w/ RISP: Pujols had 14 HR's, 88 RBI's, and 44 BB's with an unreal .397 BA. Howard had 12 HR's, 83 RBI, 49 walks, with an abysmal (For a hitter of Howards caliber) .256 BA
Close and late: Pujols had 10 HR's, 26 RBI, 19 BB's, and a .319 BA. Howard had 8 HR, 22 RBI's, and 24 BB's with a .290 BA.
Scoring Position 2 Out: 5 HR's, 34 RBI, 16 walks and a .435 BA. Howard had 5 HR's, 33 RBI, 31 BB's, and a horrid .241 BA.
Men On 2 Out: Pujols had 8 HR's, 41 RBI, 22 BB's and a .384 BA. Howard had 11 HR's, 47 RBI, 45 walks, and an even more horrid .227 BA.

Finally, there are two other things that need to be brought to light. Pujols literally carried the team into the playoffs and then to the World Series. Howards team finished 3rd runner up for the play offs. Not only that, Pujols won a Gold Glove. Howard is improving at defense but still no where near that good yet.

Point being this entire MVP race was decided by 2 horribly overrated Fantasy Stats. HR's and RBI's.

Very poor job voting.

-Kevin
(*Note this is not to discredit Ryan Howard in the slightest. He is an extraordinary player, with incredible power. Not only that he is just as classy off the field as he is on it. However in my opinion he should have won the Silver Slugger not the MVP.*)

*Ill try to figure out why in the world Derek Jeter didn't win over Justin Morneau in a couple minutes*

Anything Howard won up top you said was "not winnable," yet when Howard had more strike outs, it was a huge deal. Almost everything Pujols how in was by a slight percentage. I'd say the two are relatively even.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: schneiderguy

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

*Ill try to figure out why in the world Derek Jeter didn't win over Justin Morneau in a couple minutes*

Jeter is on the yankees, therefore he sucks and is undeserving of the MVP award. :Q

Lol unfortunately when voting the writers should remain unbiased as possible.

Im still editing the post to include the AL MVP race.

-Kevin

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: BUrassler

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
First off let me say I am a Cardinals fan, regardless I will try to stay as unbiased as possible.

NL MVP:
What in the world happened here!!??

Pujols vs. Howard
143----159 | Games player: Not a winnable stat, but Howard played in more Games therefore had the ability to contribute more to his team.
535----581 | AB : Not a winnable stat, but more games generally equals more AB's
119----104 | Runs: Pujols
177----182 | Hits: Howard, Keep in mind Pujols played in 16 less games
33----- 25 | 2B: Pujols
1-------1 | 3B: Tie, Unimportant for these players though
49----- 58 | HR: Howard, Once again keep in mind that Pujols had 16 less games
137----149 | RBI: Howard, " "
92----- 108 | Walks: Not really winnable, but Howard, " "
50----- 181 | Strikeouts: Pujols, HUGE difference, 131 less strikeouts
7--------0 | SB: Pujols
2--------0 | CS: NA since Howard didn't steal a base
.331--- .313 |BA: Pujols
.431--- .425 |OBP: Pujols
.671--- .659 |SLG: Pujols
1.102- 1.084|OPS: Pujols

Now for the stats that actually mean something more:

w/ RISP: Pujols had 14 HR's, 88 RBI's, and 44 BB's with an unreal .397 BA. Howard had 12 HR's, 83 RBI, 49 walks, with an abysmal (For a hitter of Howards caliber) .256 BA
Close and late: Pujols had 10 HR's, 26 RBI, 19 BB's, and a .319 BA. Howard had 8 HR, 22 RBI's, and 24 BB's with a .290 BA.
Scoring Position 2 Out: 5 HR's, 34 RBI, 16 walks and a .435 BA. Howard had 5 HR's, 33 RBI, 31 BB's, and a horrid .241 BA.
Men On 2 Out: Pujols had 8 HR's, 41 RBI, 22 BB's and a .384 BA. Howard had 11 HR's, 47 RBI, 45 walks, and an even more horrid .227 BA.

Finally, there are two other things that need to be brought to light. Pujols literally carried the team into the playoffs and then to the World Series. Howards team finished 3rd runner up for the play offs. Not only that, Pujols won a Gold Glove. Howard is improving at defense but still no where near that good yet.

Point being this entire MVP race was decided by 2 horribly overrated Fantasy Stats. HR's and RBI's.

Very poor job voting.

-Kevin
(*Note this is not to discredit Ryan Howard in the slightest. He is an extraordinary player, with incredible power. Not only that he is just as classy off the field as he is on it. However in my opinion he should have won the Silver Slugger not the MVP.*)

*Ill try to figure out why in the world Derek Jeter didn't win over Justin Morneau in a couple minutes*

Anything Howard won up top you said was "not winnable," yet when Howard had more strike outs, it was a huge deal. Almost everything Pujols how in was by a slight percentage. I'd say the two are relatively even.

How do you win in Games and AB's!??!? Im sorry I forgot that Howard did win at hits, but all of those are reflected in BA. It doesn't matter if he had another whole season if he doesn't do anything. Ill give Howard Walks cleanly, because that shows plate discipline and it puts yourself in a position to help your team.

You call .227 to .384 a SLIGHT margin!? What have you been smoking!?

Finally, SO's are huge. When you strike out you offer no opportunity to help your team. You can't send guys on the base on strike outs, you can't advance runners. SO's hurt the team more than almost anything. When you have 131 more strikeouts that the "opposition" that is enormous!

-Kevin

 

[thesurge]

Wait... in the MLB... is the MVP award a stat contest?
I know for the NBA its not. Can stats more accurately determine contribution to the team effort in baseball than in basketball?

 

[DayLaPaul]

This is simply MLB promoting it's new young blood. Everyone knows that Pujols is a stud and will win many MVP's in his career. But he's pretty much at his peak as far as popularity. Howard is an up and comer and this is baseball's way of trying to make make as much money off Howard as they can by annoiting him as MVP, thereby making him household name, thus collecting more revenue by being able to market him like they do Pujols. But I agree, Pujols had the better stats.

 

[tfinch2]

Kudos to you for not understanding why the MVP is awarded to someone.

 

[dethman]

the mvp is not decided by stats alone.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: tfinch2
Kudos to you for not understanding why the MVP is awarded to someone.

Kudos to you for not being able to explain -_-.

The stats prove that Pujols was more valuable to his team than Howard. Just to make sure, afterwards I said, regardless of these Pujols carried is team to the Playoffs and the world series. Furthermore his stellar defense definitely helped his team win (Less balls put in play).

Therefore I discussed the major components of Value. Stats, and the effect of those stats.

-Kevin

 

[bobdelt]

a player that misses 16 more games isnt as valuable.

 

[marleymarl]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: tfinch2
Kudos to you for not understanding why the MVP is awarded to someone.

Kudos to you for not being able to explain -_-.

The stats prove that Pujols was more valuable to his team than Howard. Just to make sure, afterwards I said, regardless of these Pujols carried is team to the Playoffs and the world series. Furthermore his stellar defense definitely helped his team win (Less balls put in play).

Therefore I discussed the major components of Value. Stats, and the effect of those stats.

-Kevin

the MVP is voted on before the playoffs even begin......

 

[Coquito]

Originally posted by: DayLaPaul
This is simply MLB promoting it's new young blood. Everyone knows that Pujols is a stud and will win many MVP's in his career. But he's pretty much at his peak as far as popularity. Howard is an up and comer and this is baseball's way of trying to make make as much money off Howard as they can by annoiting him as MVP, thereby making him household name, thus collecting more revenue by being able to market him like they do Pujols. But I agree, Pujols had the better stats.

I agree.

Pujols should of at least walked away with the HA or the SS award. You can argue MVPs, but you can't argue pure stat awards. Jeter won the damn AL HA trophy. An obvious statement that home runs don't mean everything. The writers just don't like Pujols as far as a personality that can carry the game. Eric Davis~Albert Pujols, etc.

 

[Midlander]

If it hadn't been for Mr. Steroids, Pujols would have been on a 4-year MVP streak. I'd complain more about previous years than I would about this one.

 

[SludgeFactory]

See the Jeter thread for my comments on sportswriters. Basically they are morons.

Yes all they look at is HR/RBI. Being in large part a function of your teammates' ability to get on base, RBI in particular is a joke. It doesn't even say much about your ability to be "clutch," whatever that really is. And they have no clue whatsoever about defense.

Don't get too worked up about it though, Pujols seems destined to lose out on these more often than not. He's lost two to the bay area roider already, a guy who should have been headed out to pasture in those years with declining hormone levels and stats. If the Cardinals hadn't fallen flat on their faces in the last 2 weeks this year (thanks bullpen), and instead finished decently with around 90 wins like they should have, Pujols probably would have won the MVP. The whole perception of the team back when they were voting was very negative. Obviously, since Ryan Howard triumphantly led the Phillies into the playoffs, he deserved just enough of a boost to put him over the top in the voting. :roll:

AL voting was pretty bad this year too.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Midlander
If it hadn't been for Mr. Steroids, Pujols would have been on a 4-year MVP streak. I'd complain more about previous years than I would about this one.

Oh give me a break he is the same size and weight he was since he came out of high school.

-Kevin

 

[SludgeFactory]

the Mr. Steroids that Midlander is referring to plays for the Giants

 

[BrokenVisage]

What about The Sporting News and their Player of the Year award? Or the voters for the Silver Slugger award? Or the Hank Arron award voters? Cause he won all those as well, you had to see the signs that he was going to win this thing. Honestly, I think he deserved to win it, me being a biased Phillies fan.

 

[Midlander]

Originally posted by: SludgeFactory
the Mr. Steroids that Midlander is referring to plays for the Giants

Yeah, and he looks exactly like he did when he played for the Pirates.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Ill get the AL version posted sometime, but I got an entire online course to do for college before December 2 -_-. It was irresponsible of me to wait this long, even though I can probably get it done in like 3 days.

-Kevin

 

[dbk]

Pujols got robbed. Howard's AVGs in those key situations are horrid.

 

[chuckywang]

Pujols = old hat
Howard = new kid on the block

I think you have your answer right there. God forbid the media uses actual STATISTICS to direct their voting.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: Midlander

Originally posted by: SludgeFactory
the Mr. Steroids that Midlander is referring to plays for the Giants

Yeah, and he looks exactly like he did when he played for the Pirates.

ROFL

 

[Gamingphreek]

See this crap. There is something Anti-MVP about Pujols. He consistently puts up the numbers but people continue to doubt him. How many records does he have to break, how many times do commentators have to say he is the best player in baseball before it catches on.

And for the record, Pujols is a year younger than Howard (Even though, since Howard hasn't played as much it doesn't seem right).

What makes me mad is that Trevor Hoffman actually drew many first and second place votes. This vote is about the season, not about a career. The only reason Hoffman got even considered was because he broke Lee Smiths record. He had a 2.14 ERA, he stuck out 50 batters, and had a .97 WHIP. I will GUARANTEE you that if Wagner, or Isringhausen, or another closer had those stats they wouldn't draw a single MVP vote.

This voting system is out of hand now.

-Kevin