Muslims still in denial

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: straightalker
Longwinded? Huh? You could read that without any scrolling. Easily within a minute.

See this is just another example of people who do not search for real truth. No 767 airliner hit the Pentagon because there were no 767 airliner debris found there. If you care enough about your Country you will do your research just like i had to do to learn the facts.

I'm not some nut. A few years ago i'd be totally unawares of the reality out there. It takes time to take up a search for truth and be convinced. Sorry pal but i'm just not going to drop my guard down and stop defending my Country. I've took an oath to do that. However the chips may fall on who did what when or whatever.

See what i'm saying. Millions of people don't buy the BS bucky. Most of New Yorkers sure don't as don't most of the families of the 911 victims. Most of them have filed suit with the Feds to seek real answers. That's only done by an independent "truth" commission. Not some hand picked bunch of professional liars.

OK...so why? If the owner wanted to demolish the building, why do so when it was fully-staffed? Was it to provide an excuse to invade Afghanistan? Why the hell would we want to do that, its a piss-poor country with no oil, and the only time we were ever interested was when the Soviets invaded during the Cold War. Or was it to pave the way to Iraq? Thats an awful lot of very risky trouble to go through when easier lies were at hand (like WMDs).

Also, I saw the look on Bush's face when they first told him; he obviously had no fvcking idea what had happened or what to do about it. If he was in on it, he'd have jumped right up and played the hero to make himself look good, instead of sitting there in complete shock and confusion, looking like an idiot. And I SAW the footage of the plane hitting the building; if that was fake, it made Star Wars look like an amateur student film.

What about the first WTC bombing attempt in 1993? London? Madrid? The Cole? Flight 93?

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: Pens1566
Wasn't there a recent poll of the military where a majority believed this?

How about some evidence to back this up. Or are you just spouting hot air?

Here's your hot air for you. In case you don't want to read the relevant part :


"85% said the U.S. mission is mainly ?to retaliate for Saddam?s role in the 9-11 attacks,"

Edit : Link disappeared.

Hot Air

 

[MadRat]

You know what would really blow the Muslims' minds; what if they were right?

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: straightalker
Long-winded and completely insane conspiracy theory...

In the words of Slim Pickens, what in the wide world of sports is going on here?! What about the thousands of New Yorkers that SAW the planes fly into the buildings? And all the photos and footage the rest of us have seen a million times, I suppose those were shot where NASA faked the moon landings? I personally know an officer that was at the Pentagon that day, and according to him, a fvcking airplane hit the building! Were you there?

If you really believe that our government blew up the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and shot down Flight 93, then congratulations; you are the single dumbest meatball I have ever met. What's next, Aquaman was really behind the attack on the USS Cole?

I've always held more to the aquateen theory. its common knowledge that aquaman was on a date with the littlest mermaid at the alleged time.
Therefore aquateen was home alone and unsupervised.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: straightalker

I'm not some nut.

No, you are "some nut". Go troll one of the other 9/11 conspiracy threads. This thread is about muslim attitudes for people who want to talk about the real world, not your tinfoil lunatic bullsh1t. Isn't Art Bell on now anyways?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Braznor

Originally posted by: alchemize

None of this is really surprising at all, it reflects past polls. I really don't hold out any hope that any of this lunacy will decline, regardless of our actions in Iraq, and I don't think there's any answer. Fundamental Islam is a cancer, and it's very pervasive through the religion.

I wish we had invested a trillion in figuring out alternate energies, then let the lunatics drink their oil and eat their sand.

There is nothing new in this. The Islamic viewpoint always encourages an 'us versus them' attitude. It basically stems from the Quranic teaching to distrust non believers. Even if Muhammed himself awoke from the dead and tried to convince them of otherwise, they would not believe him because it would not fit within their worldview.

The problem also stems from another cause, the falliability of rationality when confronting Islam. They believe in propoganda and are taught never to question it.

Heh, the "us versus them" attitude is certainly not confined to Muslims. I hear it every day from a rather large number of Americans. We're trying to promote democracy and peace within a large Muslim country in the Middle East while making it clear that a lot of us think they are all a bunch of comrade terrorists. Not exactly a winning combination if you ask me.

Typical of liberal western aplogists with a narcissistic guilt trip who dont understand history their main goal or the sick mentality.

The religon is incompatible with Democracy, peace, secularism, human equality, etc.. people fail to see that cause of the lies muslim leaders tell the media, but the real goal is to dominate and take over, thats why they kill people who leave Islam, cause they know all about thier BS.

Don't believe me? Here are two clips from Walid Shoebat and Zak Anani both former terrorists telling just how it is.
1
2

Yeah, I prefer not to get my information on the religious beliefs of over a billion people from psychopaths. Call me a liberal western apologist with a narcissistic guilt trip, but I've got to believe there is a better solution than going to war with every Muslim on earth. Holy wars usually don't turn out too well.

You can't be this oblivious to the world around you. The war is already on! Remember 911? Saudi Arabia? WTC 3x? etc etc etc..."Oh" you might say "that's just because of American Imperialism" Ok fine Then how do you explain what's going on in Russia, France, Germany, Sweden, Sudan, Indonesia, India and about 100 other countries many of whom dispise USA and don't support us? That has'nt helped them one bit.

Wake up Neville, war is on your door step you either fight, get assimilated or die.

And no I don't mean fight by invading any of these countries - invasion of Iraq and tarbaby that insued was a horredous mistake and actually made things worse - but combating will take a very long response I know you're not interested in. You're only intrest is the alter of PC to give you warm and fuzzies.

You know, you're pretty insulting for a guy I've had to explain this concept to several times already...

I remember 9/11...and I certainly am not part of the group that thinks it was just because of American Imperialism. However, I ALSO remember that 9/11 was perpetrated by a fairly small group of men claiming Islam as their religion. Do I want to hunt down the people in their group and groups like them? Of course. Does that mean I'm incapable of seeing the difference between doing that and waging war against every single Muslim on the planet? Of course not.

One of the most important factors in winning a war, any war, is good intelligence. And part of that intelligence is knowing who you are fighting. Muslims are not a homogeneous social group any more than any other social group, acting as if every Muslim was a supporter of the 9/11 terrorists is not an effective way to fight a war against the people that are truly terrorists any more than we should have invaded every country in the far east during WWII because they were all a bunch of Asians, and so were the Japanese. You're right, we ARE at war, and we're never going to win if we don't know just who our enemies are. Waging a wild, failing war against a widely varied group of over a billion seems like a poor way to root out a relativly small number of fanatics among them.

My interest in doing this doesn't spring from any sense of PC warm and fuzzy feelings, far from it. My interest in seperating the vast majority of Muslims from the Osama bin Ladens comes from a knowledge that this will be how we'll win the war on terrorism. You call me oblivious, and that's fine, but in my experience it's important to understand that not everything is some simple black and white situation you can slap on a bumper sticker.

I ALSO remember that 9/11 was perpetrated by a fairly small group of men claiming Islam as their religion

You're so in denial I don't even see the point but maybe others are interested...

An intelligent analyst would recognise terror is an instrument of jihad. And until Islam, like German Nazism and Japanese Kodo after WWII, is completly discredited/is mocked/evolves - all the instruments of the Jihad will continue indefinitely including terrorists. With good investigation you may knock out one, two, a hundred instruments out of thousands begging to take thier place. Israel knows this been dealing with it forever. Like war on drugs it's unwinable unless you address why people are taking drugs and get them off of those motives. For terror you need look no futher than Quran. http://www.6thcolumnagainstjihad.com/SiteContents.htm

We need a renaissance in the Muslim world - including but not limited to -full equality of rights for women and non-Muslims in Islamic societies, freedom of conscience, equality in laws regarding legal testimony, no more beheadings for being a cathlolic, atheist or renouceing your faith as Allah calls for. How you get there is demand it via sanctions and accept no excuses for muslims living in western world based on freedom of religion defence when it conflicts with our laws.. Yes Investigate and prosecute forced marriges, incest, statutory rape etc. Instead of what's happening now where most Eurpoean countires turn thier back on Muslim communities afraid of escaltion.

In the middle east my message is divide and conquer until they have a renaissance. The point is we need not divide. They are divided a Sunni does'nt even thik a Shi'a is muslim and will never live under Shi'a law or accept second class citizenship with thier Arab Superiority complex. And will probably always be divided. Just stand back and let them at it. The Iran-Iraq War should have gone on forever. Keeps thier radicals engaged there instead of time to focus on USA and the rest of the free world.

 

[Braznor]

Ultimately the only solution to this mess is to keep Muslims busy forever with their sectarian fights, block all muslim immigration to the outside world and enforce a moderate version of Islam upon those outside the middle east and deport the ones unwilling to accept it.

 

[straightalker]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: straightalker

I'm not some nut.

No, you are "some nut". Go troll one of the other 9/11 conspiracy threads. This thread is about muslim attitudes for people who want to talk about the real world, not your tinfoil lunatic bullsh1t. Isn't Art Bell on now anyways?

Please spare this forum the flame war alchemize. I'm not going to return fire verses that immature nonsense. Instead, i'm going to take the thread you created and go directly to discussing the core of what it was all about. The most effective way to do that may be just to use an anology. Replace some words with similar one's from a different time and place. Are you ready to play? Those of you regressing back to childhood and giggling about mermaids might even find something entertaining in this too. heeheehe.

original quote

Disbelief was strong among Muslims that Arabs were behind the Sept. 11 attacks, with 65 percent in Indonesia and 59 percent in Turkey, for example, expressing that viewpoint. Even in Britain, 56 percent of the Muslims surveyed did not believe that Arabs carried out the attacks. The results, Mr. Kohut said, show that "many Muslims are still in denial" about something that even Osama bin Laden has acknowledged.

now with some words switched

Disbelief was strong among Asians that the Vietnamese were behind the Gulf of Tonkin attacks, with 65 percent in South Vietnam and 59 percent in Cambodia, for example, expressing that viewpoint. Even in Britain, 56 percent of the Veitnamese surveyed did not believe that Asians carried out the attacks. The results, Mr. Kohut said, show that "many Asians are still in denial" about something that even [place the name of your favorite boogey man here] has acknowledged.

See what i'm saying. It's a perfect analogy of sorts. We even have the same Secretary of Defense as we had in the Vietname War now running Gulf War II. His job? Never win the war, just make it last as long as possible for the war profiteers who hired you. For reference just study the facts found on this excellent documentary film. http://206.51.231.80/TERRORSTORM_6_21_06_bb.mov

The point i'm making is that our perceptions were being manipulated in this article about the muslim's "attitudes". What is their "real attitude?". The polls show that. The majority of them don't believe the official BS handed them by the 911 Truth Commission. The author tries to say they are in denial. Nonsense!

It's very important not to fall into the trap of being manipulated by these attempts to ram down everyone's throats the vperception that you are somehow in denial or else a nutcase if you question the BS that 19 Arabs leveled three huge skyscrapers into neat little piles using some jetfuel. And stood down Norad. Our entire air defense system.

In that video i linked to, especially study the USS Liberty incident for a look at exactly how things really operate among the corrupt leadership that slips itself into power in the USA.

Nuff said. All threads have a limited life cycle and more interesting topics are out there to discuss. I see we have a very excellent gathering here of minds.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: straightalker
I'm not some nut...

After my initial outburst (sorry), I responded with some sincere questions about your theory, and I am interested to see your answers if you care to give them.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: straightalker
Longwinded? Huh? You could read that without any scrolling. Easily within a minute.

See this is just another example of people who do not search for real truth. No 767 airliner hit the Pentagon because there were no 767 airliner debris found there. If you care enough about your Country you will do your research just like i had to do to learn the facts.

I'm not some nut. A few years ago i'd be totally unawares of the reality out there. It takes time to take up a search for truth and be convinced. Sorry pal but i'm just not going to drop my guard down and stop defending my Country. I've took an oath to do that. However the chips may fall on who did what when or whatever.

See what i'm saying. Millions of people don't buy the BS bucky. Most of New Yorkers sure don't as don't most of the families of the 911 victims. Most of them have filed suit with the Feds to seek real answers. That's only done by an independent "truth" commission. Not some hand picked bunch of professional liars.

So if no 767 or other airplane hit the pentagon were did the people on the airplane and the airplane itself go?

And this is all a lie?

And is this guy here a liar?

 

[AnandTech Moderator]

Hijackers and Elvis have already left the building.

 

[Duvie]

I think this article shows the majority of muslims are under educated and/or not very intelligent...Why would I say this??? Even on their own Arab-biased news channels they have played numerous video and audio tapes of osama and his number 2 admitting to the attacks....I mean "I are a college student", but perhaps I am wrong. I thought osama was an arab fighting a Jihad against the west...Maybe he is just a "crazy zionist"...

It shows me we cannot win the hearts of these people, because their minds may limit them....


Not to sound so cynical, but by all accounts 10% of worldwide muslims are extremist....Do the math, that is an EXTREME amount...I think what they forget to figure in, is data like this that shows overwhelmingly the rest of the "sheeple" are sympathetic to the extremist...Therefore they are the enemy as well....

In the end they wont learn and eventually they will draw a bit too much blood (chemical, biological, or nuclear attack) and pay dearly for it.... They will awaken the sleeping giant...Even the most passivist person will turn against them when they lose a loved one....

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: joshw10

Originally posted by: Tom
Lets look at Saddam and 9/11 link in a factual way. Tell me if you think any of these points are wrong.

1. Western countries embargo Iraqi oil to weaken Saddam.
2. people in Iraq suffer food and medicine shortages.

Some people put fact one and fact two together, and blame USA for hunger problem. Among these people are radical Islamists, who blame USA for everything.

1. radical Islamist group, Al keada ataacks USA on 9/11.

Now, here I am in USA, and I get a phone call from Pew research..they ask me is Saddam linked to 9/11 ?

What is correct answer ? looks to me like the 2 things are linked. Not because Saddam had anything to do with attack, as far as I know he didn't. But because one of the reasons we are attacked, is because attackers think we are responsible for starving Iraqi children. It's not the only reason, or even the main reason. But I bet it's a reason.

Those polls were never about that kind of "link"...but about whether Saddam had involvement or aided the planning and/or execution of the 9/11 attacks.

That is how you see them. Depending on the exact wording, that isn't how the respondents to the poll saw them, which is my point.