Muslims still in denial

[Zebo]

Muslims still in denial

Not as bad as westerners.. Europes finished.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: StormRider

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Braznor

Originally posted by: alchemize

None of this is really surprising at all, it reflects past polls. I really don't hold out any hope that any of this lunacy will decline, regardless of our actions in Iraq, and I don't think there's any answer. Fundamental Islam is a cancer, and it's very pervasive through the religion.

I wish we had invested a trillion in figuring out alternate energies, then let the lunatics drink their oil and eat their sand.

There is nothing new in this. The Islamic viewpoint always encourages an 'us versus them' attitude. It basically stems from the Quranic teaching to distrust non believers. Even if Muhammed himself awoke from the dead and tried to convince them of otherwise, they would not believe him because it would not fit within their worldview.

The problem also stems from another cause, the falliability of rationality when confronting Islam. They believe in propoganda and are taught never to question it.

Heh, the "us versus them" attitude is certainly not confined to Muslims. I hear it every day from a rather large number of Americans. We're trying to promote democracy and peace within a large Muslim country in the Middle East while making it clear that a lot of us think they are all a bunch of comrade terrorists. Not exactly a winning combination if you ask me.

Yeah, but isn't this more because of 9/11? Islam was and is the fastest growing religion in the world and I would think this is because the west is more open and has a less "us versus them" attitude.

When I was young, I saw an interview with a Quaker who gave the following reason for asking an exemption from going to war, "My religion forbids me to kill".

Years later when we were gearing up for the Afghan war, my local news channel interviewed some Muslim students in George Washington University about their feelings. The news reporter then asked, "There has been talks of a draft -- you're of age -- how would you feel if there is a draft?" and the Muslim student replied, "I don't know. I would have a problem going over there and having to kill innocent Muslims".

And then I thought, "Why use the term Muslim and not just people?"

I really do feel that Muslims have a more "us" attitude than other people. Whenever you have conflicts between Muslims and non-Muslims in other countries, you always see Muslims of other countries streaming in. In Thailand, you have jihiadists from Saudi Arabia etc. becoming involved. Same with Russia, China, Philippines, Afghanistan, etc.

But I have never heard of this happening in other rellgions. I have never seen a Philippino Catholic saying, "I want to go to Ireland and wage "crusade" against the Protastants and help my fellow Catholics". Maybe this happens a lot but I just never knew it.

The differance is Chirstianity has gone through a change and Islam has not.

If you were around at the time the Church was burning people at the stake, and killing lots of people it would seem just as bad and cult like as Islam.

However Chirstianity has evolved, esp in U.S its turned into this whole singing and dancing thing, and im sure if some early Chirstians could be around to see it they would be like WTF off with his head.

Islam however is still in the 7th century, just take a look at wherever it spreads and people take it seriously, those countries are in poverty, and have a whole host of problems like war, beheadings, rapes, salvery etc. My Saudi buddy at work who dumped his Sunni faith has a warrant on his head. And he'll tell you Osama is the real Islam.

Muslims have contributed nothing to humanity in the last say 500 yrs, even prior to that all Islamic inventions were really taken from advanced and peacefull cultures that muslims conqured. (the real crusades)

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Braznor

Originally posted by: alchemize

None of this is really surprising at all, it reflects past polls. I really don't hold out any hope that any of this lunacy will decline, regardless of our actions in Iraq, and I don't think there's any answer. Fundamental Islam is a cancer, and it's very pervasive through the religion.

I wish we had invested a trillion in figuring out alternate energies, then let the lunatics drink their oil and eat their sand.

There is nothing new in this. The Islamic viewpoint always encourages an 'us versus them' attitude. It basically stems from the Quranic teaching to distrust non believers. Even if Muhammed himself awoke from the dead and tried to convince them of otherwise, they would not believe him because it would not fit within their worldview.

The problem also stems from another cause, the falliability of rationality when confronting Islam. They believe in propoganda and are taught never to question it.

Heh, the "us versus them" attitude is certainly not confined to Muslims. I hear it every day from a rather large number of Americans. We're trying to promote democracy and peace within a large Muslim country in the Middle East while making it clear that a lot of us think they are all a bunch of comrade terrorists. Not exactly a winning combination if you ask me.

Typical of liberal western aplogists with a narcissistic guilt trip who dont understand history their main goal or the sick mentality.

The religon is incompatible with Democracy, peace, secularism, human equality, etc.. people fail to see that cause of the lies muslim leaders tell the media, but the real goal is to dominate and take over, thats why they kill people who leave Islam, cause they know all about thier BS.

Don't believe me? Here are two clips from Walid Shoebat and Zak Anani both former terrorists telling just how it is.
1
2

 

[Aimster]

I wonder who the hell they actually talked to in these Muslim countries.

Did they go to the slums and talk to the people who live in camel farms?

Turkey is not even close to being a Muslim country. They call themselves Muslim but they are very moderate. Women walk the streets in mini-skirts. People flood the beaches.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Aimster
I wonder who the hell they actually talked to in these Muslim countries.

Did they go to the slums and talk to the people who live in camel farms?

Turkey is not even close to being a Muslim country. They call themselves Muslim but they are very moderate. Women walk the streets in mini-skirts. People flood the beaches.

You just described the problem... it sounds like if you are true muslim country you must be bound in headscarves and stay away from the beaches

 

[GeNome]

Originally posted by: Zebo

The differance is Chirstianity has gone through a change and Islam has not.

If you were around at the time the Church was burning people at the stake, and killing lots of people it would seem just as bad and cult like as Islam.

However Chirstianity has evolved, esp in U.S its turned into this whole singing and dancing thing, and im sure if some early Chirstians could be around to see it they would be like WTF off with his head.

Islam however is still in the 7th century, just take a look at wherever it spreads and people take it seriously, those countries are in poverty, and have a whole host of problems like war, beheadings, rapes, salvery etc. My Saudi buddy at work who dumped his Sunni faith has a warrant on his head. And he'll tell you Osama is the real Islam.

Muslims have contributed nothing to humanity in the last say 500 yrs, even prior to that all Islamic inventions were really taken from advanced and peacefull cultures that muslims conqured. (the real crusades)

Duh, pressed the reply button too soon...

I actually agree with you, but probably not in the same sense as you're saying it. It seems to me that most Muslims you meet over here in the states are much more moderate and accepting then the "fanatic" Muslims in middle-eastern countries.

 

[Craig234]

The amount of ignorance and simplistic views in the right wing is appalling.

Typical are the comments which treat the Middle Eastern people as one homogenous group, as if an action taken by the House of Saud represents, say, a farmer in Iran.

Saying anything about 'fanatical muslims' is about the same as attributing the views of Pat Robertson to all Americans as a group.

And the ignorance: put yourself in Iran's shoes for a moment.

A century ago, Britain began taking their oil for low prices at the point of a gun. In 1953, when the Iranians' democracy finally put someone in power who said he was going to stop the utter stealing from Iran and start getting a more fair price for the oil, the US, using its brand new shiny CIA, responded to England's plea for protecting cheap oil by arranging for a coup of their democracy, and returning the Shah to a new role, complete with supplying him with a brutal police force responsible for political murders and torture for 25 years.

Gee, you think they have a *reason* to be mad at the west? A year after the Shah was overthrown, we're in their supporting Saddam in invading Iran, in the longest war of the 20th century with a million Iranian casualties, many of which were from WMD while the world turned a blind eye to the WMD use and protected Saddam when he started losing the war - all in the name of weakning both countries for future exploitation.

Now maybe they have a reason to be mad at the US?

And yet after all that, the Iranian people still love the good side of the US and want better relations.

What so many fail to recognize is how often the Middle Eastern people are far more moderate, and abused by terrible rulers *the US protects*.

Osama bin Laden was a pariah with most people in the middle east, and the people largely opposed the US making him into a powerful figure with things like the Iraq invasion.

The ignorance amongst so much of the American people is a slap in the face to the principles of democracy which require some effort to get informed before voting.

The right wing should try reading books: try 'The Assassins' Gate', or many others.

 

[straightalker]

None of this is really surprising at all, it reflects past polls. I really don't hold out any hope that any of this lunacy will decline, regardless of our actions in Iraq, and I don't think there's any answer. Fundamental Islam is a cancer, and it's very pervasive through the religion.

alchemize, ...i understand your opinion.

We have to be careful though to frame this within the context of achieving a peaceful co-existence with muslims, most of whom have decided in one way or another, to ignore Mohammad's most violent teachings. While it is clearly stated by Mohammed in the Quran that all muslims should go out into our World and either convert or kill non-muslims, the actual results of these teachings are manageable. Muslims themselves moderate these teaching on killing human beings. They do that by ignoring them. We'll get into what to do when they don't ignore them, ...later.

The best way to deal with muslims right now is in fair community level and college academic level debate. Muslims have peacefully co-existed in many places side by side with non-musdlims for centuries. We should examine how that happened and seek to repeat those methods of cooperation. I'm not talking about yoking together with them spiritually. But just the simple common sense act of existing together with a mutual respect for human life. I've talked to muslims before. They're not all the stereotypically crazed suicide bomber.

http://www.prophetofdoom.net/chapter.aspx?g=401&i=41003

Islam is a caustic blend of regurgitated paganism and twisted Bible stories. Muhammad, its lone prophet, conceived his religion solely to satiate his lust for power, sex, and money. He was a terrorist.

Would i agree with this website authors statements about Mohhamed and the religion he created? To some degree yes. But these author's words would not go far in diplomacy. They would in fact incite warfare. But kept on an information website for our educational purposes these words are appropriate descriptions of the real darkside of core Islamic teaching.

Now, ...what to do when some muslims decide to kill, based on religious dogmas. I'm just using common sense here. We should apply Nation-like status to any religious sect that decides to engage us in warfare based on their religious beliefs. Muslims are a fractured religion with many independent sects. We have to remember that. So simply put, if a sect goes to war with us, the rules of warfare should apply against only that sect. Not the entire Muslim population. You can take the logic from there.

What muslims are in denial probably the most about, could possibly be this entire teaching of their Quran which teaches the dogma of extermination of all of us non-muslim human beings. I guess they mean billions of us must be beheaded. Muslims do have a very tough row to hoe over how to deal with Mohhamed's rabid teachings. Where they can't deal with it properly, that's why we keep in storage in the USA our arsenal of weaponry. For dealing with hostiles who can no no longer peacefully and rationally co-exist with the rest of humanity.

 

[Tab]

In what the survey, part of the Pew Global Attitudes Project for 2006, called one of its most striking findings, majorities in Egypt, Indonesia, Jordan and Turkey ? Muslim countries with fairly strong ties to America ? said, for example, that they did not believe that Arabs carried out the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in the United States.

So, if Muslims don?t think a group of Arabs committed the attacks on 9/11 then who do they think did?

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Tab

In what the survey, part of the Pew Global Attitudes Project for 2006, called one of its most striking findings, majorities in Egypt, Indonesia, Jordan and Turkey ? Muslim countries with fairly strong ties to America ? said, for example, that they did not believe that Arabs carried out the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in the United States.

So, if Muslims don?t think a group of Arabs committed the attacks on 9/11 then who they think did?

probably the Jews or CIA

or maybe they think that the CIA is Jewish, so 2 for 1

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Craig234
The amount of ignorance and simplistic views in the right wing is appalling.

Typical are the comments which treat the Middle Eastern people as one homogenous group, as if an action taken by the House of Saud represents, say, a farmer in Iran.

Saying anything about 'fanatical muslims' is about the same as attributing the views of Pat Robertson to all Americans as a group.

And the ignorance: put yourself in Iran's shoes for a moment.

A century ago, Britain began taking their oil for low prices at the point of a gun. In 1953, when the Iranians' democracy finally put someone in power who said he was going to stop the utter stealing from Iran and start getting a more fair price for the oil, the US, using its brand new shiny CIA, responded to England's plea for protecting cheap oil by arranging for a coup of their democracy, and returning the Shah to a new role, complete with supplying him with a brutal police force responsible for political murders and torture for 25 years.

Gee, you think they have a *reason* to be mad at the west? A year after the Shah was overthrown, we're in their supporting Saddam in invading Iran, in the longest war of the 20th century with a million Iranian casualties, many of which were from WMD while the world turned a blind eye to the WMD use and protected Saddam when he started losing the war - all in the name of weakning both countries for future exploitation.

Now maybe they have a reason to be mad at the US?

And yet after all that, the Iranian people still love the good side of the US and want better relations.

What so many fail to recognize is how often the Middle Eastern people are far more moderate, and abused by terrible rulers *the US protects*.

Osama bin Laden was a pariah with most people in the middle east, and the people largely opposed the US making him into a powerful figure with things like the Iraq invasion.

The ignorance amongst so much of the American people is a slap in the face to the principles of democracy which require some effort to get informed before voting.

The right wing should try reading books: try 'The Assassins' Gate', or many others.

Oh waaaah they are so oppressed. Typical leftist victimization babble, siding with evil just because it happens to hate capitalism too.

Therefore we should tolerate a 98% rate of anti-semitism, and a majority belief that the Joooos committed 9/11.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: straightalker
While it is clearly stated by Mohammed in the Quran that all muslims should go out into our World and either convert or kill non-muslims, the actual results of these teachings are manageable.

They are where? From Indoesia to Dafur they are killing, gang raping, and imposing jizya on Dhimmis just like Quran say to do.

Muslims themselves moderate these teaching on killing human beings.

Only bought and paid for despots who rule with an Iron fist or where they are in a infinitesmal minority like South America or USA are they "moderate". However once they gain a large presence they get alot more comfortable calling for Jihad- And if they don't guys like Zarqawi will throw down the gauntlet to moderate muslims forcing them to choose sides. Hmm lets see "something I've been indoctrinated all my life with or risk losing my life adopting this nebulous freedom these westerners preach" When your life in on the line the choice is never hard for a moderate to become a radical sympathizer anymore than your average German becoming a Nazi sympathizer back then.

They do that by ignoring them.

Absolutly untrue. See the europe piece I posted above.

Muslims have peacefully co-existed in many places side by side with non-musdlims for centuries.

Centuries? Where?

I've talked to muslims before. They're not all the stereotypically crazed suicide bomber.

Of course not, only the lions are brave enough just like we have our warriors - but most Muslims mislead non-Muslims about the central tenets of Islam you linked to and therefore is objectively furthering the Jihad by rendering non-Muslims unwary and keeping them in a state of appolgetic naivete which can get them kiled.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Religion is the Enemy

Just out of curiosity. you seem to be in about the top 25 in P and N as being "super anti-religious" of all forms of religion, and yet you have a religous link in your signature.
(Have a great day).
would you care to explain why? Just seems a little odd.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Braznor

Originally posted by: alchemize

None of this is really surprising at all, it reflects past polls. I really don't hold out any hope that any of this lunacy will decline, regardless of our actions in Iraq, and I don't think there's any answer. Fundamental Islam is a cancer, and it's very pervasive through the religion.

I wish we had invested a trillion in figuring out alternate energies, then let the lunatics drink their oil and eat their sand.

There is nothing new in this. The Islamic viewpoint always encourages an 'us versus them' attitude. It basically stems from the Quranic teaching to distrust non believers. Even if Muhammed himself awoke from the dead and tried to convince them of otherwise, they would not believe him because it would not fit within their worldview.

The problem also stems from another cause, the falliability of rationality when confronting Islam. They believe in propoganda and are taught never to question it.

Heh, the "us versus them" attitude is certainly not confined to Muslims. I hear it every day from a rather large number of Americans. We're trying to promote democracy and peace within a large Muslim country in the Middle East while making it clear that a lot of us think they are all a bunch of comrade terrorists. Not exactly a winning combination if you ask me.

Typical of liberal western aplogists with a narcissistic guilt trip who dont understand history their main goal or the sick mentality.

The religon is incompatible with Democracy, peace, secularism, human equality, etc.. people fail to see that cause of the lies muslim leaders tell the media, but the real goal is to dominate and take over, thats why they kill people who leave Islam, cause they know all about thier BS.

Don't believe me? Here are two clips from Walid Shoebat and Zak Anani both former terrorists telling just how it is.
1
2

Yeah, I prefer not to get my information on the religious beliefs of over a billion people from psychopaths. Call me a liberal western apologist with a narcissistic guilt trip, but I've got to believe there is a better solution than going to war with every Muslim on earth. Holy wars usually don't turn out too well.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Braznor

Originally posted by: alchemize

None of this is really surprising at all, it reflects past polls. I really don't hold out any hope that any of this lunacy will decline, regardless of our actions in Iraq, and I don't think there's any answer. Fundamental Islam is a cancer, and it's very pervasive through the religion.

I wish we had invested a trillion in figuring out alternate energies, then let the lunatics drink their oil and eat their sand.

There is nothing new in this. The Islamic viewpoint always encourages an 'us versus them' attitude. It basically stems from the Quranic teaching to distrust non believers. Even if Muhammed himself awoke from the dead and tried to convince them of otherwise, they would not believe him because it would not fit within their worldview.

The problem also stems from another cause, the falliability of rationality when confronting Islam. They believe in propoganda and are taught never to question it.

Heh, the "us versus them" attitude is certainly not confined to Muslims. I hear it every day from a rather large number of Americans. We're trying to promote democracy and peace within a large Muslim country in the Middle East while making it clear that a lot of us think they are all a bunch of comrade terrorists. Not exactly a winning combination if you ask me.

Typical of liberal western aplogists with a narcissistic guilt trip who dont understand history their main goal or the sick mentality.

The religon is incompatible with Democracy, peace, secularism, human equality, etc.. people fail to see that cause of the lies muslim leaders tell the media, but the real goal is to dominate and take over, thats why they kill people who leave Islam, cause they know all about thier BS.

Don't believe me? Here are two clips from Walid Shoebat and Zak Anani both former terrorists telling just how it is.
1
2

Yeah, I prefer not to get my information on the religious beliefs of over a billion people from psychopaths. Call me a liberal western apologist with a narcissistic guilt trip, but I've got to believe there is a better solution than going to war with every Muslim on earth. Holy wars usually don't turn out too well.

You can't be this oblivious to the world around you. The war is already on! Remember 911? Saudi Arabia? WTC 3x? etc etc etc..."Oh" you might say "that's just because of American Imperialism" Ok fine Then how do you explain what's going on in Russia, France, Germany, Sweden, Sudan, Indonesia, India and about 100 other countries many of whom dispise USA and don't support us? That has'nt helped them one bit.

Wake up Neville, war is on your door step you either fight, get assimilated or die.

And no I don't mean fight by invading any of these countries - invasion of Iraq and tarbaby that insued was a horredous mistake and actually made things worse - but combating will take a very long response I know you're not interested in. You're only intrest is the alter of PC to give you warm and fuzzies.

 

[NTB]

If muslims do not believe that arabs were responsible for the attacks on 9/11, who do they think did it?

Nate

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Braznor

Originally posted by: alchemize

None of this is really surprising at all, it reflects past polls. I really don't hold out any hope that any of this lunacy will decline, regardless of our actions in Iraq, and I don't think there's any answer. Fundamental Islam is a cancer, and it's very pervasive through the religion.

I wish we had invested a trillion in figuring out alternate energies, then let the lunatics drink their oil and eat their sand.

There is nothing new in this. The Islamic viewpoint always encourages an 'us versus them' attitude. It basically stems from the Quranic teaching to distrust non believers. Even if Muhammed himself awoke from the dead and tried to convince them of otherwise, they would not believe him because it would not fit within their worldview.

The problem also stems from another cause, the falliability of rationality when confronting Islam. They believe in propoganda and are taught never to question it.

Heh, the "us versus them" attitude is certainly not confined to Muslims. I hear it every day from a rather large number of Americans. We're trying to promote democracy and peace within a large Muslim country in the Middle East while making it clear that a lot of us think they are all a bunch of comrade terrorists. Not exactly a winning combination if you ask me.

Typical of liberal western aplogists with a narcissistic guilt trip who dont understand history their main goal or the sick mentality.

The religon is incompatible with Democracy, peace, secularism, human equality, etc.. people fail to see that cause of the lies muslim leaders tell the media, but the real goal is to dominate and take over, thats why they kill people who leave Islam, cause they know all about thier BS.

Don't believe me? Here are two clips from Walid Shoebat and Zak Anani both former terrorists telling just how it is.
1
2

Yeah, I prefer not to get my information on the religious beliefs of over a billion people from psychopaths. Call me a liberal western apologist with a narcissistic guilt trip, but I've got to believe there is a better solution than going to war with every Muslim on earth. Holy wars usually don't turn out too well.

You can't be this oblivious to the world around you. The war is already on! Remember 911? Saudi Arabia? WTC 3x? etc etc etc..."Oh" you might say "that's just because of American Imperialism" Ok fine Then how do you explain what's going on in Russia, France, Germany, Sweden, Sudan, Indonesia, India and about 100 other countries many of whom dispise USA and don't support us? That has'nt helped them one bit.

Wake up Neville, war is on your door step you either fight, get assimilated or die.

And no I don't mean fight by invading any of these countries - invasion of Iraq and tarbaby that insued was a horredous mistake and actually made things worse - but combating will take a very long response I know you're not interested in. You're only intrest is the alter of PC to give you warm and fuzzies.

You know, you're pretty insulting for a guy I've had to explain this concept to several times already...

I remember 9/11...and I certainly am not part of the group that thinks it was just because of American Imperialism. However, I ALSO remember that 9/11 was perpetrated by a fairly small group of men claiming Islam as their religion. Do I want to hunt down the people in their group and groups like them? Of course. Does that mean I'm incapable of seeing the difference between doing that and waging war against every single Muslim on the planet? Of course not.

One of the most important factors in winning a war, any war, is good intelligence. And part of that intelligence is knowing who you are fighting. Muslims are not a homogeneous social group any more than any other social group, acting as if every Muslim was a supporter of the 9/11 terrorists is not an effective way to fight a war against the people that are truly terrorists any more than we should have invaded every country in the far east during WWII because they were all a bunch of Asians, and so were the Japanese. You're right, we ARE at war, and we're never going to win if we don't know just who our enemies are. Waging a wild, failing war against a widely varied group of over a billion seems like a poor way to root out a relativly small number of fanatics among them.

My interest in doing this doesn't spring from any sense of PC warm and fuzzy feelings, far from it. My interest in seperating the vast majority of Muslims from the Osama bin Ladens comes from a knowledge that this will be how we'll win the war on terrorism. You call me oblivious, and that's fine, but in my experience it's important to understand that not everything is some simple black and white situation you can slap on a bumper sticker.

 

[straightalker]

However, I ALSO remember that 9/11 was perpetrated by a fairly small group of men claiming Islam as their religion

9-11 was an inside job perpetrated by the perps within our own USA Government. The 3 huge buildings were demolished with precision in classic straightfall downfall. Another logical fact. Never in human history has a single skysraper fell due to fire. Yet on 9-11 three fell. All the steel beams neatly sliced into sections by thermite charges. That's why you saw 3 perfect neat piles of chopped up rubble and dust. The two Trade Towers and building #7. The owner of Building 7 said "pull-it". That's the demolitionist term used to describe the order to demolish with explosives. Firemen reported the charges going off in the twin towers. We see the explosions going off. Their "squibs". Puffs of smoke. In organized fashion. Floor by floor. Just look for yourself. The videos prove demolition. Many experts concur. And the many are fast becoming more many.

Of course the people investing in defense stocks during the current terror war will say all this is for tinfoil hatted nuts. Sorry but you're outnumbered. Most honest polls show most people do not believe the Governments 9-11 explanation. Most believe it's a coverup. It is. Bush and Cheney tried to get Henry Kissenger to run the 9-11 Commission. Heeheehe. What a joke. But not really. The butcher of Cambodia. A 100% satanic scamscateer of phenominal proportions. The best liar in the biz.

Of the 19 arab patsies assigned to this false flag terror operation as the fall guys, several were later found alive and totally unawares their names and photos were used as the alleged 9-11 terrorists.

All this is covered here http://www.question911.com/links.php and so many OTHER places.

It should be said that muslims will from now on probably be completely unable to trust the West for quite awhile. Expert diplomacy will be required to mend the situation. After the current phony terror war is extinguished. And sane people restore our Constitutional form of Government back to the USA. What we have now is a rogue hunta.

The title of the thread "muslims in denial" is tough to understand. Maybe a more accurate way to describe it is "muslims in deception". Because they sure are stuck in a powerful cross current of deception. From Mohhamed to the current war against Islam. Due mainly to Isreal which is directing most of this. Most of the war planners and others here in the USA are duel Isreali citizens who hate Islam. Where that leaves our USA soldiers is as usual. Pawns on the chessboard. Something that is very sad to see go on and on. After Vietnam, you'd think they would have wized up to this already. And said "no more phony wars".

We are all human beings. We can't forget that. Even though i do not believe in Islam i still have compassion for human life. They want to convert us? We should convert them instead. Not kill them off out of ancient hatreds as is the case with Isreal verses certain arabs.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
There is a thread in ATOT for this type of post.

Attempted hijackers get 2 wk vacations to figure out how to plan better

Anandtech Moderator

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Religion is the Enemy

Generalizations such as this are the enemy.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Braznor

Originally posted by: alchemize

None of this is really surprising at all, it reflects past polls. I really don't hold out any hope that any of this lunacy will decline, regardless of our actions in Iraq, and I don't think there's any answer. Fundamental Islam is a cancer, and it's very pervasive through the religion.

I wish we had invested a trillion in figuring out alternate energies, then let the lunatics drink their oil and eat their sand.

There is nothing new in this. The Islamic viewpoint always encourages an 'us versus them' attitude. It basically stems from the Quranic teaching to distrust non believers. Even if Muhammed himself awoke from the dead and tried to convince them of otherwise, they would not believe him because it would not fit within their worldview.

The problem also stems from another cause, the falliability of rationality when confronting Islam. They believe in propoganda and are taught never to question it.

Heh, the "us versus them" attitude is certainly not confined to Muslims. I hear it every day from a rather large number of Americans. We're trying to promote democracy and peace within a large Muslim country in the Middle East while making it clear that a lot of us think they are all a bunch of comrade terrorists. Not exactly a winning combination if you ask me.

Typical of liberal western aplogists with a narcissistic guilt trip who dont understand history their main goal or the sick mentality.

The religon is incompatible with Democracy, peace, secularism, human equality, etc.. people fail to see that cause of the lies muslim leaders tell the media, but the real goal is to dominate and take over, thats why they kill people who leave Islam, cause they know all about thier BS.

Don't believe me? Here are two clips from Walid Shoebat and Zak Anani both former terrorists telling just how it is.
1
2

Yeah, I prefer not to get my information on the religious beliefs of over a billion people from psychopaths. Call me a liberal western apologist with a narcissistic guilt trip, but I've got to believe there is a better solution than going to war with every Muslim on earth. Holy wars usually don't turn out too well.

You can't be this oblivious to the world around you. The war is already on! Remember 911? Saudi Arabia? WTC 3x? etc etc etc..."Oh" you might say "that's just because of American Imperialism" Ok fine Then how do you explain what's going on in Russia, France, Germany, Sweden, Sudan, Indonesia, India and about 100 other countries many of whom dispise USA and don't support us? That has'nt helped them one bit.

Wake up Neville, war is on your door step you either fight, get assimilated or die.

And no I don't mean fight by invading any of these countries - invasion of Iraq and tarbaby that insued was a horredous mistake and actually made things worse - but combating will take a very long response I know you're not interested in. You're only intrest is the alter of PC to give you warm and fuzzies.

You know, you're pretty insulting for a guy I've had to explain this concept to several times already...

I remember 9/11...and I certainly am not part of the group that thinks it was just because of American Imperialism. However, I ALSO remember that 9/11 was perpetrated by a fairly small group of men claiming Islam as their religion. Do I want to hunt down the people in their group and groups like them? Of course. Does that mean I'm incapable of seeing the difference between doing that and waging war against every single Muslim on the planet? Of course not.

One of the most important factors in winning a war, any war, is good intelligence. And part of that intelligence is knowing who you are fighting. Muslims are not a homogeneous social group any more than any other social group, acting as if every Muslim was a supporter of the 9/11 terrorists is not an effective way to fight a war against the people that are truly terrorists any more than we should have invaded every country in the far east during WWII because they were all a bunch of Asians, and so were the Japanese. You're right, we ARE at war, and we're never going to win if we don't know just who our enemies are. Waging a wild, failing war against a widely varied group of over a billion seems like a poor way to root out a relativly small number of fanatics among them.

My interest in doing this doesn't spring from any sense of PC warm and fuzzy feelings, far from it. My interest in seperating the vast majority of Muslims from the Osama bin Ladens comes from a knowledge that this will be how we'll win the war on terrorism. You call me oblivious, and that's fine, but in my experience it's important to understand that not everything is some simple black and white situation you can slap on a bumper sticker.

How many time are you going to say this? We can count the number of men that were directly involved on 9/11. That number is 19 or 20 depending on how you look at it. What you are forgetting is the network that supplies, coordinates and motivates these people to do what they do. Those 19 men didn't just come out of nowhere. There are many others who were involved. There many others in other countries who were sympathetic to the attack and were glad it ocurred. What you are seeing is limited. Look at the whole picture, consider everybody, think short and long term. We don't know our enemy and that is the problem. People say that the enemy is a muslim but they are wrong. Religion is no enemy. The people doing these things are actually perverting islam by combining their politics with it. Mixing religion with politics produces bad results. When you can stop that, then we can win this war. Otherwise, we are losing and will lose until we get to the root cause of this problem. Bombing other people will not solve problems, it will only create problems.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: straightalker

However, I ALSO remember that 9/11 was perpetrated by a fairly small group of men claiming Islam as their religion

<snip>

Don't hijack this thread, tinfoilie.

 

[GeNome]

While I agree with the majority of your post raildogg, I still think you're missing Rainsford's point.

There are an estimated 1.4 billion Muslims in the world, Islam being the second largest religion to Christianity. If there were, say, 10,000 peoople that were behind/supported the attack, that would still be only be ~0.014% of the entire Muslim population. Hell, if there were 100,000 it would still only be one one-thousandth of the population. So, it really is a very small number.

 

[straightalker]

I'm with the thread and with your posted article...

Disbelief was strong among Muslims that Arabs were behind the Sept. 11 attacks, with 65 percent in Indonesia and 59 percent in Turkey, for example, expressing that viewpoint. Even in Britain, 56 percent of the Muslims surveyed did not believe that Arabs carried out the attacks. The results, Mr. Kohut said, show that "many Muslims are still in denial" about something that even Osama bin Laden has acknowledged.

If you or others are going to make up nonsense statements like 19 Arabs took down the 3 WTC skyscrapers, you deserve a proper alternative viewpoint being brought into the discussion.

People who use the word "tinfoil hat" are just using the dumbed down masses as their base for support. Those people watch CNN and Fox News for their truth. Had they ever decided to search for real truth they could easily find it. You at all interested in that alchemize? Truth?

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: straightalker
Long-winded and completely insane conspiracy theory...

In the words of Slim Pickens, what in the wide world of sports is going on here?! What about the thousands of New Yorkers that SAW the planes fly into the buildings? And all the photos and footage the rest of us have seen a million times, I suppose those were shot where NASA faked the moon landings? I personally know an officer that was at the Pentagon that day, and according to him, a fvcking airplane hit the building! Were you there?

If you really believe that our government blew up the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and shot down Flight 93, then congratulations; you are the single dumbest meatball I have ever met. What's next, Aquaman was really behind the attack on the USS Cole?

 

[straightalker]

Longwinded? Huh? You could read that without any scrolling. Easily within a minute.

See this is just another example of people who do not search for real truth. No 767 airliner hit the Pentagon because there were no 767 airliner debris found there. If you care enough about your Country you will do your research just like i had to do to learn the facts.

I'm not some nut. A few years ago i'd be totally unawares of the reality out there. It takes time to take up a search for truth and be convinced. Sorry pal but i'm just not going to drop my guard down and stop defending my Country. I've took an oath to do that. However the chips may fall on who did what when or whatever.

See what i'm saying. Millions of people don't buy the BS bucky. Most of New Yorkers sure don't as don't most of the families of the 911 victims. Most of them have filed suit with the Feds to seek real answers. That's only done by an independent "truth" commission. Not some hand picked bunch of professional liars.