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Muslims are out of control

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Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Well, the somewhat thread question becomes, is the attack on this dance group an simple isolated event example of German antisemitism, or is this attack on the dance group caused by the recent actions of the State of Israel regarding their discrimination against Palestinians in Gaza?

And why should this be just be a question for P&N posters to flame each other about as an untestable hypothesis, when there is new information that may better answer the questions. Because, the German police believe they have found and identified the two perps. Looks like one was an ethnic German and the other was from North Africa. Also detailed in the link is the fact that their was a prior synagogue burning attempt that shows this dance group attack is not the only recent example of German antisemitism.

http://www.news24.com/World/News/German-Jews-warned-of-attacks-20100624
 

Medu

Member
Mar 9, 2010
149
0
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This headline reminds me of Foxnews at it's best!

So what we have here is a hate crime by 1 that is probably a Muslim and one that might be a Muslim and this means that all Muslims are out of control?
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
571
126
What is so hard to understand is how you can't condemn an act against Jews in a European country without blaming Israel for it. The people who perpetrated this violence chose to do so; they chose to translate hatred of Israel in anti-semitism; their parents chose to teach them anti-semitism. Israel did not force them to do these things. You are denying their responsibility for their own actions and are instead trying to shift the blame to a third party who is thousands of miles away. It's classic apologia. I've never once seen you try to justify an act of violence by Israel by making reference to the acts of others. Israel, you claim, is responsible for its own acts. But not European Muslims who attack Jews. Oh no. The Jews should have seen that coming of course, because of the big bad Israel. YOU are quite obviously the hypocrit here, and it's plain to basically everyone.

I used to debate Holocaust deniers on another forum, and you know what they say about "anti-semitism?" It goes like this. "Anti-semitism," by definition, must be an irrational hatred of Jews. Yet Jews do many bad things, and it isn't wrong to point out all the bad things people do. Hence, the charge of "anti-semitism" is unfair, as most of the things that anti-semites claim about Jews are true. In other words, the Jews bring it on themselves. They should have known this was coming.

Sound familiar?

- wolf


- wolf

Damn straight.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
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bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
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Well, the somewhat thread question becomes, is the attack on this dance group an simple isolated event example of German antisemitism, or is this attack on the dance group caused by the recent actions of the State of Israel regarding their discrimination against Palestinians in Gaza?

And why should this be just be a question for P&N posters to flame each other about as an untestable hypothesis, when there is new information that may better answer the questions. Because, the German police believe they have found and identified the two perps. Looks like one was an ethnic German and the other was from North Africa. Also detailed in the link is the fact that their was a prior synagogue burning attempt that shows this dance group attack is not the only recent example of German antisemitism.

http://www.news24.com/World/News/German-Jews-warned-of-attacks-20100624

Lemon law, you just said it's anti-semitism twice. Anti-Israel is not Anti-Semitism, but equating all Jews with Israel then using Israel to justify your action against Jews who have nothing to do with Israel is Anti-Semitism. That's how it works bud, no amount of fancy word wrangling is going to change that except in your distorted mind.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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bfdd is using one wrong word here in stating, "Israel to justify your action against Jews who have nothing to do with Israel is Anti-Semitism."

And that word is justify, I am merely saying that when the State of Israel does practice discrimination against others as a matter of national policy, it WILL, as a human nature type of thing, cause an increase in antisemitism else where. No where do I say its justified, but seemingly some think its totally unrelated simply because they want it to be unrelated.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
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...I am merely saying that when the State of Israel does practice discrimination against others as a matter of national policy, it WILL, as a human nature type of thing, cause an increase in antisemitism else where.
That's an old strategy:

While Herzl claimed that the establishment of a "Jewish" state would cure anti-Semitism, he also promoted anti-Semitism to further his cause.

Herzl stated in his diary:


“It is essential that the sufferings of Jews.. . become worse. . . this will assist in realization of our plans. . .I have an excellent idea. . . I shall induce anti-Semites to liquidate Jewish wealth. . . The anti-Semites will assist us thereby in that they will strengthen the persecution and oppression of Jews. The anti-Semites shall be our best friends”. (From his Diary, Part I, pp. 16)
Zionism's goal has always been to build a Jewish and democratic state throughout Israel/Palestine, and the more bigotry against Jews, the more Jews are compelled move to Israel/Palestine so they can further outnumber Palestinians there. It's sell-perpetuating insanity.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,153
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That's an old strategy:


Zionism's goal has always been to build a Jewish and democratic state throughout Israel/Palestine, and the more bigotry against Jews, the more Jews are compelled move to Israel/Palestine so they can further outnumber Palestinians there. It's sell-perpetuating insanity.

That quote is an internet meme, passed around white supremacist, anti-semitic and anti-Zionist websites for ages. What is with all the elipses in it? Source it with full text or it's bullshit.

- wolf
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
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bfdd is using one wrong word here in stating, "Israel to justify your action against Jews who have nothing to do with Israel is Anti-Semitism."

And that word is justify, I am merely saying that when the State of Israel does practice discrimination against others as a matter of national policy, it WILL, as a human nature type of thing, cause an increase in antisemitism else where. No where do I say its justified, but seemingly some think its totally unrelated simply because they want it to be unrelated.

But what does it matter? Why even bring it up? You're trying to justify the actions of the people throwing the stones and that's the only reason you would bring it up. Israel had nothing to do with this until one of you guys brought it into the conversation. Before that it was some Muslims in Germany throwing stones at some Jews in Germany.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
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That quote is...
It's a quote from Herzl's diaries, posted on an Orthodox Jewish website, albeit anti-Zionist too. If you want the full context, check a library. I'd have quoted from Google books, but couldn't find the exact part because they don't offer any previews and are apparently using different translations than what I could find. That said, you can find a slightly different translation in these books.
 
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Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
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But what does it matter? Why even bring it up? You're trying to justify the actions of the people throwing the stones and that's the only reason you would bring it up. Israel had nothing to do with this until one of you guys brought it into the conversation. Before that it was some Muslims in Germany throwing stones at some Jews in Germany.
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Wrong again bfdd, its you who are saying the actions of State of Israel had nothing to do with motivating these people throwing stones at a Jewish dance group in Germany, and you are merely getting unjustifiably upset at me for pointing out they may be related.

Why are you so hyperspastically upset at the mere idea that they could be related? Why is that mere idea so offensive to your delicate sensibilities that you go into total denial mode?

After all, in the link I provided earlier, another example of possible antisemitism in Germany specifically blamed some of the State of Israel actions as their motivator in a note left. As for the dance group incident, the jury may still be out because the police have not yet reported on their motivations because they are just freshly nabbed. Given more time we may get a better idea of what motivated the attack.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,153
0
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It's a quote from Herzl's diaries, posted on an Orthodox Jewish website, albeit anti-Zionist too. If you want the full context, check a library. I'd have quoted from Google books, but couldn't find the exact part because they don't offer any previews and are apparently using different translations than what I could find. That said, you can find a slightly different translation in these books.

Your version of the quote is riddled with elipses, and can only be found on blatantly partisan websites. Specifically, it appears on holocaust denial websites, neo-Nazi websites, generally anti-semitic websites, and some anit-zionist websites. The website you linked is probably the most benign of them. However, it is clear this these websites are cross-feeding quotes and information. They do it all the time. Which one it started on is anyone's guess. However, until I see it in the actual diary, it's presumably bullshit, particularly as mainstream sources do not quote it like that. Rather, mainstream sources quote Hertzl saying something like "the anti-semites will become our friends, our most loyal allies." Speaking ironically, what Hertzl meant, in context, is that he predicted anti-semitic nations would expel Jews and this would cause accelerated Jewish immigration to Palestine. Your version has Hertzl scheming with anti-semites to steal Jewish property. That version only appears on partisan websites with multiple elipses.

- wolf
 

AreaCode707

Lifer
Sep 21, 2001
18,447
133
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Fortunately we in the US are so much more tolerant and accepting of those with other beliefs.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2012202078_vansmeared25m.html
Feces smeared on van parked near Bellevue mosque
A van with ads about Islam on its exterior that was parked near a mosque in Bellevue was smeared with feces, alleges the Washington state chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations.
By Seattle Times staff



Related

A van with ads about Islam on its exterior that was parked near a mosque in Bellevue was smeared with feces on Thursday, alleges the Washington state chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations.


The van was parked outside the Islamic Center of Eastside. The owner noticed what appeared to be feces smeared on the van's window, windshield and side door handle after he left noon prayers at the mosque.


S. Arsalan Bukhari, executive director of CAIR-WA, said the van owner had contacted Bellevue Police, and Bukhari is contacting the FBI. Bukhari is asking both agencies to investigate the incident as a possible hate crime.

From the comments:
This wouldn't have happened if they hadn't been so opposed to people drawing their prophet.

And for the record, I'm an equal opportunity dung smearer when it comes to religion.
Saying they deserve it; it's their own fault.

This isn't news. Go get a car wash and call it good.
Marginalizing it.
/. .
= /

For all of those curious, this is a picture I drew of Mohhamed. Does this mean somebody is going to declare a fatwa for a jihad against me?
Antagonizing.

I'm glad we are so much more rational, reasonable and accepting at heart than those Muslims overseas.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
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However, until I see it in the actual diary, it's presumably bullshit, particularly as mainstream sources do not quote it like that.

Again, mainstream sources with a slightly different translation of the meat of the quote from Herzl's diaries:

The antisemites will become our most loyal friends, the antisemitic nations will become our allies

Also, a quote I was able to dig up in Herzl's diaries through Google books, despite them not being available for preview:

the Zionist plan for the final solution of the Jewish Question
That was decades before the Nazis came up with their own demented "solution" to that same deranged "question." Again, I recommend you go to a library and find a copy of Herzl's diaries, it seems you could learn a lot from the experience. Regardless, arguing from ignorance to dismiss what Herzl wrote is bullshit.
 
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bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
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Wrong again bfdd, its you who are saying the actions of State of Israel had nothing to do with motivating these people throwing stones at a Jewish dance group in Germany, and you are merely getting unjustifiably upset at me for pointing out they may be related.

Why are you so hyperspastically upset at the mere idea that they could be related? Why is that mere idea so offensive to your delicate sensibilities that you go into total denial mode?

After all, in the link I provided earlier, another example of possible antisemitism in Germany specifically blamed some of the State of Israel actions as their motivator in a note left. As for the dance group incident, the jury may still be out because the police have not yet reported on their motivations because they are just freshly nabbed. Given more time we may get a better idea of what motivated the attack.

No I'm not saying what Israel does and doesn't do doesn't make an impact on these things, I'm just wondering why it was brought up. The only reason to bring it up is to try and justify their anti-semitism as anti-israel sentiment. That's what I don't get. We know they don't like Jews for whatever reason that might be, I fail to see how this situation is related to Israel even if these people are upset over what Israel does.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
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The only reason to bring it up is to try and justify ...
Only in the minds of pea-brained fools, while the rest of us can discuss the motivations behind unjustifiable acts without conflating the two issues.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
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Again what does Israel have to do with this situation? Nothing. In fact in this situation bringing up Israel as a nation is simply retarded because this is a hate of a people, not a nation. They hate Jews, Israel is a Jewish nation so they hate Israel. It has almost nothing to do with Israels policies and everything to do with the Muslim population of the world having it out for the Jews. Believe whatever you want about Israel doing all this bad, but Muslims were persecuting Jews long before Israel showed up. So you guys can go suck the Palestinian cock that feeds you because it's the only thing your ignorant little brains are willing to understand.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Again what does Israel have to do with this situation?
Yet again:

Tell me, do you understand what Israel has to do with this?
And again:

You aren't answering the question because you are too intellectually dishonest to engage in rational discourse.
Unless you can muster the intellectual honesty to answer my question forthrightly, I can't rightly expect to you acknowledge the correct answer to yours. So, again:

If you'd first be so kind as to answer my question, I'd happily reciprocate by answering yours.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,153
0
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Again, mainstream sources with a slightly different translation of the meat of the quote from Herzl's diaries:



Also, a quote I was able to dig up in Herzl's diaries through Google books, despite them not being available for preview:


That was decades before the Nazis came up with their own demented "solution" to that same deranged "question." Again, I recommend you go to a library and find a copy of Herzl's diaries, it seems you could learn a lot from the experience. Regardless, arguing from ignorance to dismiss what Herzl wrote is bullshit.

I don't know what you think you're refuting with this post. The mainstream sources you link say exactly what I said mainstream sources say. And it isn't the whole of that elitpical quote from partisan websites you originally posted - it just resembles a part of the quote. There is nothing in mainstream sources about Hertzl scheming with anti-semitic regimes to divest Jews of their property.

So far as getting the diary from the library, I suggest you do so. You're the one who is quoting second hand from partisan websites. It isn't my burden.

- wolf
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
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Muslim Nazis?

(Why not? Isn't it true that many Muslim and Arab leaders backed the Nazis in WWII?)

Zombie Nazis song

Is there any truth to a story about bloodshed and land theft and some place magically appearing where other people were living but GOD the Almighty chose that a certain group of humans are more important than allll others. That important group used religion as a means to steal land and claim God said they were super duper important.. more than any who are not like them..

To this day the anointed ones live there and claim they have a religious right to be there and at the same time they deny anyone else could ever make a historical religious claim to land near theirs because "their land didn't exist in the magical book like ours did"
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
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Isn't it true that many Muslim and Arab leaders backed the Nazis in WWII?
For the most part, no. That said, there was a time when "Zionism became the only other party legalized in the Reich, the Zionist flag the only other flag permitted to fly in Nazi-land." That happened because both Nazis and Zionists shared a mutual goal; they wanted to get Jews out of Europe.

There is nothing in mainstream sources about Hertzl scheming with anti-semitic regimes to divest Jews of their property.
Nor does what I quoted suggest as much, since inducing to is quite different from scheming with, and Herzl only expressed his intent to do the former, not the latter. And again, if you want to see the full context what I quoted, check a library for Herzl's diaries. My inability to find a more complete quote online does nothing to change the fact that he did write what the quote I provided suggests.
 
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artikk

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2004
4,172
1
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Because this thread has a topic which the OP presented. It was about some Jewish dance group in Germany being stoned by Muslims in Germany. What does that have ANYTHING to do with the link you're posting? Where have I even commented on the link you're posting besides when you asked me to answer your question. Also, what the fuck is this "intellectually dishonest" bull shit? I'm wondering why you guys are bringing up Israel when it has NOTHING to do with this. You guys are using Israel to justify hateful actions against Jews, you are the ones being intellectually dishonest with your chosen ignorance of goddamn near everything.

Why am I even arguing with you? You believe 9/11 was a gubment conspiracy.
The problem here is that it doesn't matter if, in truth, the Israeli situation has anything to do with the antisemitic incident in Germany or not . In most irrational minds, (in this case bigoted as an extension), perception is the key motivation for their aforementioned actions. What they believe was true IS definitively true in their minds.
Also I don't understand how bringing up agressive Israeli tactics as of late as a possible link for the motivation for the German antisemitic attacks in any way automatically justifies these attacks.??? Lemon law never said that Gaza incident justified the attacks, but just there's a possible relationship between the two.
 
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Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
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Is Lemon Law representative of a political ideology or does he latch onto one that he believes is closest to his unyielding tolerance for such actions? Certainly one would be foolish to comment on a lynching of a black man with "Racism is horrible in any form. Look how the blacks beat up white kids" then seriously expect their first comment to be taken as sympathy for the hanged man.

Yet that comparison will be denied. Why? Because he simply hates Israel. That there are legitimate areas of discussion, the a priori approach taken nullifies any serious discourse.

It would seem to me that any individual act of good or evil stands on it's own as such. Bringing other issues is specious, and more than that painfully transparent.

It may be good at inciting others to react, but it does nothing to merit serious consideration, assuming that was the reason for posting at all.
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In all due respect Hayabusa Rider, Now that you are done playing arm chair Psychiatrist, its time to point out that I don't hate Israel, I hate Israeli government policies. There is a difference, because the latter says, reform your policies and you no longer earn hatreds.

IMHO, the mistakes were made in 1948, Israel then could have decided to be a government that granted equal rights to both all former residents of the former British mandate, but instead decided to become an apartheid State in which only Jews and a few selected Arabs had human rights.

The former policy assumes Palestinians and Jews can work together but practice their religions separately and the latter assumes that like oil and water, the two groups can't mix. And then we come to the fact that the former British Mandate was in fact a vast living laboratory, where exactly those types of experiments were conducted. IF we want to cherry pick antipodal evidence, we can find many areas of the former British mandate where Jews, Arabs, and Palestinian lived and worked together in harmony for the mutual benefit of all, we can find many areas where native Arabs and Palestinians behaved badly to new Jewish settlers, and we can find many areas where
new Jewish settlers behaved badly in regard to already established Palestinians and Arabs. And we can define behaving badly to every crime in the book up to and including murder and genocide. But if all three things were happening at the same time
and basic place, how do we decide which was true? And the answer is we have to look at the long term aggregate effect, and not concentrate on individual anecdotal incidences.

But here we are, 62 years down the road, Israel is an economically thriving nations of some 5.5 million Jews with full citizenship rights, some 1.75 Million Arabs with almost full citizenship rights, and some 3 plus million Palestinians with no human rights. And bottom line, as long as Israel can't solve the Palestinian problem, ISRAEL WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO FIND ACCEPTANCE IN THE MID-EAST. Israel may be able to maintain itself by force of arms, but they never will know any peace until correct that defect in their aggregate behavior. Nor can Israel hold on to lands captured during the 1967&73 wars.

If we could go back in history and change the net aggregate Israeli behavior, and had Israel fairly treated the Palestinians, we would not have the problems we have today.
Now that 62 years have passed, now its a far harder problem because the problem is far harder to solve.

But Israel will never find peace and acceptance in the mid-east until it either helps form a Palestinians state or assimilates the Palestinians into the Israeli State with full citizenship rights plus compensations.

So why does the world keep kicking the can down the road? If we wait to long, either the terrorists will finally win or we are heading to a major bloodbath in the mid-east. In short, the present mid-east situation is unsustainable and is a ticking time bomb.

Nor do I think the past or present net aggregate behavior of Palestinians or surrounding Arab states is anything worth defending, but still, the greatest rascal has and still is the net aggregate behavior of the state of Israel.

But if anyone wants to paint me as a flaming anti Semitic Jew hater, you are welcome to watch all those synagogues I don't burn down and all of those swastikas I don't paint on the houses of my Jewish neighbors. And the reason is simply because I have no problems with any of my neighbors, be they Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or whatever. Because that is what we got in the USA, a nation dedicated to the separation of church and State with no special citizenship rights based on religion. Long before you and I were born, the USA used to enslave human beings, we fought a civil war to prevent that, successfully assimilated our former slaves, again had to fight various civil rights battles during the 60's, and still have some civil rights battles today. And as we assimilate more people, the minor battles will be ongoing into the future.

If the USA can do, Israel can do it.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Nazi's Muslims what's the diff? Kill em all and world will be a much better place. Most of us have moved on from ethnic hatred unlike those fucks.