Muslims and terrorism, a different perspective

[Nitemare]

<< So a Palestininian civilian death means nothing when compared to an Israeli civilian death because of the way they died?

Just go to that thread, I don't like pointing fingers and calling everyone names..unlike certain other posters.....which I will not name

But nowhere near as full of hate as you and everyone that condemns everyone who isn't Pro-Israel and Anti-Palestine. I've more than made my point.

HAHAHHAHA Typical Nitemare challenge his BS facts and you are automatically a hate monger. >>


There is such a thing called a mirror, I suggest you use it



<< LOL Just becaise I proved you quoted people who NEVER even came CLOSE to saying "all Muslims are bad" And you ran. What a shocker >>


Where exactly did I run to? and what shocker, that you don't know when to keep your fingers off the keyboard? I think that you prove that on half your posts



<< As anyone can tell you who isn't a subscriber, the forums are close to useless around this time of day. This is why I haven't subscribed. Before you call me a cheapass, I'm the only member in the household who is working and I'm paying two tuitions and have a car payment...So I can't exactly wait they required ten minutes for every page to load.

Oh I see. Its the FORUMS fault you can't find the evidence hehe Then why did you try to pass off those BS quotes as your "evidence" little buddy? LOL

Its always someone else's fault isn't it Nitemare? To be fair I did that too. Then I turned 7 >>


Wow, in 7 more years you can get your drivers license. As it is the fault for every Palestinian civilian killed for getting in the way of an Israeli bullet? Why do you quote all my Palestinian support in another thread and not posting the ones where I urge for peace?) Because that's not fun for you. You'd rather do selective posting and take things out of context to show everyone your undying support for Israel



<< So every half of all muslims are terrorist sympathsizers..LOL, I dare you to take a survey. Just because most muslims are pro-palestinians doesn't mean they are for suicide bombing. I'm pro-Christian, but I'm not pro-child molesting, yet I don't demonstrate on the proper handling of children...Your bigotry shines through good buddy



<< I dare you to take a survey LOL Sure, I'll just pop over there. >>


Have you ever even seen an Arab other than on your Sony WEGA flat screen? Do you have a friend that isn't named Billy, Bobby or Joe..For that matter do you have any friends that do not have pickup trucks? I bet you don't.



<< I'll give you an easier way. Find me one just one pro-peace not even pro-israeli march of ANY kind in ANY Muslim dominated state. Just ONE. >>



How bout a whole friggin government arresting Islamic activists in one of your so called terrorist states?
link



<< You act like I'm the only one that knows that women are treated like second class citizens by certain Arab groups. Your ignorance surprises me...

I never said women were not treated as second class citizins little buddy. There you go again making people's statements up all by yourself

What I said was where does it say that women cannot BE terrorists? Where does it say that? >>



The same place where it says that a woman cannot be a US president :Q

Do the world a favor and listen instead of trying to talk over everybody.

 

[Texmaster]

<< There is such a thing called a mirror, I suggest you use it >>



LOL Thats right. I'm a hate monger because I challenge you to back up your BS conclusions.

Remember, I'm not the one who compared Israelies to Gestapo. That was ALL you little buddy and I still have the quote if you want the proof



<< Where exactly did I run to? and what shocker, that you don't know when to keep your fingers off the keyboard? I think that you prove that on half your posts >>



You ran away because you had NOTHING I challenged you to prove your statement that members here have said "all Muslims are bad" Not only could you Not do that, you couldn't even find a quote CLOSE to your accusation LOL



<< Wow, in 7 more years you can get your drivers license. >>



LOL What color is the sky in your world?



<< As it is the fault for every Palestinian civilian killed for getting in the way of an Israeli bullet? >>



Another BS statement. Where did I say that? BACK UP YOUR BS for ONCE!

You are the undisputed King of lying about what others say.



<< Why do you quote all my Palestinian support in another thread and not posting the ones where I urge for peace?) Because that's not fun for you. You'd rather do selective posting and take things out of context to show everyone your undying support for Israel. >>



I proved you are NOT balanced in your criticism. Thatr was the goal and I achieved it easy. You want to porve your claim? Find me one quote of yours where you called the Palestinian people or security force as being "gestapo" as you did with the Israelis.



<< Have you ever even seen an Arab other than on your Sony WEGA flat screen? >>



Actually I was very good friends with a guy from Kwait and another Muslim from Guam when I was in school and I work with 3 other Muslims. Care to making a bigger fool out of yourself? LOL



<< Do you have a friend that isn't named Billy, Bobby or Joe..For that matter do you have any friends that do not have pickup trucks? I bet you don't. >>



HAHAHAHA Typical Nitemare. Loosing the arguement so the only resort is personal attacks. I do have a quite a jew friends named Joe.



<< I'll give you an easier way. Find me one just one pro-peace not even pro-israeli march of ANY kind in ANY Muslim dominated state. Just ONE. >>



How bout a whole friggin government arresting Islamic activists in one of your so called terrorist states?
link

Thats a step in the right direction but it goes no where NEAR proving your statement that only 5-10% of the population are Muslim Extremists. And of course it wasn't a peace march by the people either

And here is the telling part from that very article:

Several Jordanian and Palestinian demonstrations have been held in Jordan in recent weeks to vent fury at an Israeli offensive in the West Bank.

Protesters have urged the government to heed popular demands to close the Israeli Embassy and open the country's long borders with Israel for Arab volunteers ready to fight Israel.

The US can scare some governemnts to make a few arrests but this quote shows the popularity of the extremeists which goes to the Heart of its support among the people.



<< The same place where it says that a woman cannot be a US president :Q >>



HAHAHA You are so full of it! Its great to watch you fall apart every time I demand you back up your retoric!



<< Do the world a favor and listen instead of trying to talk over everybody. >>



Why don't you do the world a favor and think before you lie about what others have said then run away when challenged on it

 

[Nitemare]

<< that site is a peice of junk....i've read their explanations for a few questions and most of them go around the problem and not at the heart of this....for example...

In the faq section



<< How do you justify in Allah's name the justice meted out by sharia?

Harriet Brand


Dear Harriet,

As a general matter, Islamic law is based on the notion that God is supreme over all, and while He, may He be glorified, may demand things of us, we can demand nothing of Him. Nevertheless, out of His infinite mercy, His commands are in accord with what benefits human beings. Nonetheless, some of His commands are done purely for the sake of testing us: will we be faithful to His command, or will we succumb to our lusts? Submitting to what is known to be God's command is at the heart of being a Muslim, even if faithful execution of that command brings with it grave hardship. If you are a Christian or a Jew, you certainly know that God commanded Abraham to sacrifice his son . . . If you believe in a transcendent, all-powerful God, you know that He commands certain things merely to test our faithfulness: that is the bottom line when it comes to religious justification.

> people accused of adultury are buried in a pit and
> stoned to death,

Actually, to be convicted of adultery in Islamic law, there must be four male witnesses to the act of penetration. That is the only acceptable evidence for such a punishment (other than confession). Accusation of adultery, followed by failure to produce four eye witnesess leads to automatic punishment for slander.

> or
> pickpockets have their hands amputated?

In Islamic law, a thief who steals property exceeding a certain value is subject to having his hand amputated. This is based upon an express verse in the Quran, although the nature of the property addressed (it must be sufficiently protected) and the amount are certainly a matter requiring human judgment. The main point of this stern punishment is to communicate the gravity of the sin of theft, not to amputate hands. Islamic law has very high standards of proof that are not easily satisfied. Finally, Muslim rulers have often refrained from applying this punishment when circumstances, such as poverty, force people into crime.

One final point: with regards to certain crimes, such as adultery and theft, for which God has provided mandatory punishments, Islam views these punishments as acts of penance, and thus are vehicles to cleanse the sin itself. For that reason, I know of no instance in which the Prophet, may God bless him and grant him peace, applied one of these punishments against a recalicitrant person.



Peace,

Mohammad Fadel >>







<< > people accused of adultury are buried in a pit and
> stoned to death,

Actually, to be convicted of adultery in Islamic law, there must be four male witnesses to the act of penetration. That is the only acceptable evidence for such a punishment (other than confession). Accusation of adultery, followed by failure to produce four eye witnesess leads to automatic punishment for slander. >>



Just look at the reasoning given above , so stupid, atleast they could have brought some smart talker to do the faq section So does that mean if one is witnessed by four other people , the person can be stoned to death?....cheating is bad...but sex is a damn primal characteristics of all people.

Next



<< > pickpockets have their hands amputated?

In Islamic law, a thief who steals property exceeding a certain value is subject to having his hand amputated. This is based upon an express verse in the Quran, although the nature of the property addressed (it must be sufficiently protected) and the amount are certainly a matter requiring human judgment. The main point of this stern punishment is to communicate the gravity of the sin of theft, not to amputate hands. Islamic law has very high standards of proof that are not easily satisfied. Finally, Muslim rulers have often refrained from applying this punishment when circumstances, such as poverty, force people into crime. >>



Oh I see ...Yup Im A moron and everything u just said makes perfect sense....cut peoples hands because they steal..and ruin their life....






<< If you are a Christian or a Jew, you certainly know that God commanded Abraham to sacrifice his son . . . If you believe in a transcendent, all-powerful God, you know that He commands certain things merely to test our faithfulness: that is the bottom line when it comes to religious justification. >>



If god wants me to sacrifice my brother or father or son....i will no way do it dammit!!!! i will lose all respect for him and fight against him....goddamn bullsh!t that he wants to test our faithfulness by taking our loved ones... if god is truly there he is supposed to love us and take good care of us....( the justification that just becos some book says god commands u to do certain senseless things...makes no sense to me at all).the least he can do is let the place run without tampering with it...instead of giving commands like...sacrifice ur son to me to show ur loyalty and crapp like that....this brand of religionism is plain stupid i dont take the bible as it is...i try to take the best of it.....and not the absolute senseless crap that might have been relevant during stone age.


amen! >>



Never said that everything on the sites were grand. I linked them for the terrorist information only. Just because the religion is "stupid" does not mean that it supports suicide bombers

308nato, by you agreeing that kill all jews prayer was praticed everywhere...you pretty much signed on the hate band wagon.

My major malfunction is everyone being so pro-jew that that is all they ever see. I sometimes seem like a Palestinian sympathsizer on this board because I am refuting the claims that all muslims want and need to kill all jews as notably posted in the jimbo thread.

I'm deemed an apologist Arab lover here and yet I post on an Arab board Israeli views and correct some of their bias, yet get called no names...

So, since this is your only world, I guess I am an Arab lover as I don't follow blindly anymore.

 

[gunf1ghter]

The reason you get slammed is because you post a lot of stuff that makes no sense. Saying that the Israeli occupation justifies suicide bombing of civilians does not ingratiate many people to your cause... and effectively that's what has come across from numerous statements you have made.



<< I'm deemed an apologist Arab lover here and yet I post on an Arab board Israeli views and correct some of their bias, yet get called no names...
>>



A link demonstrating this would help your case tremendously.

 

[Lucky]

NM, check your @beer.com mail please.

 

[Lucky]

Speaking of that I am getting tired of you claiming all of these people here are saying that "ALL Muslims are bad" Who are these people? And the quotes where they said it would be helpful.





I challenged you to prove your statement that members here have said "all Muslims are bad" Not only could you Not do that, you couldn't even find a quote CLOSE to your accusation LOL



Its interesting you say this Tex. I found a post, by you, in this thread. Let me repeat it for you since you forgot.

<<I never contended this. It's just disturbing that people believe that the vast majority of muslims support terrorism. >>


Its even more distubing when we have facts to back it up. <----Tex's response



You plainly stated that you have FACTS that the vast majority of muslims support terrorism. Considering you believe (as I do as well) that terrorism is inherently evil and bad, it doesnt take much (hell, doesnt take anything) to realize you are saying the vast majority of muslims are bad. Sure, you didnt say all but in your brainwahed mind, Im sure vast majority is a synonym.

None of this really matter though. Texmaster talking about what muslims are like in other countries is like a black guy who's never been out of New York saying what a nice place Jasper TX is for blacks.

 

[etech]

Nitemare
I think 5-10% of muslims is way too high. The rash of female suicide-bombers is proof of that. They ran out of men volunteers

What are you basing the "ran out of men volunteers" on?

 

[Lucky]

hi texmaster,

wanted to PROVE you wrong so here is the gallup poll of people in the middle east posted by your friend jimbo. It clearly show that the VAST MAJORITY does not support terrorism.


LINK

poll response:

September 11th attacks:

Morally Justified: 15%
Morally unjustified: 67%


So clearly the VAST MAJORITY, as texmaster claims, do not support terrorism.

 

[alrocky]

Gee, Lucky, you've conveniently misinterpreted the poll results to mean all terrorism when in fact that Gallup Poll does not say that. You have not proven Texmaster wrong with this Poll. It says that 67% find the specific act of terrorism attack on Sep 11 2001 as unjustified. This Poll doesn't ask their view about terrorism in general. On it's face that percentage is reassuring, however the rest of the poll is not: 61% of the Muslim respondents are in denial or have swallowed self serving propaganda and refuse to believe the murder of 3000 souls was commited by fellow Arabs/Muslims; 77% feel the US is unjustified in military action in Afghanistan.

In any event, Texmaster was merely challenging Nitemare's overstated charge that those who criticize Arabs/Muslims "believe <U>all</U> Muslims are bad." You proved noone wrong here. Except yourself.

 

[Nefrodite]

disturbing.

did Arab groups carry out September 11 attacks?

Yes 18%
No 61%

Denial is never a good thing. Look at the catholic church and its pedilphiles. Pathetic indeed. Islam isn't willing to do some self examination into why it is a hotbed of fundamentalism, fear, violence, moral equivalency, terrorism, hate....




U.S. military action in Afghanistan.

Morally Justified 9%
Morally unjustified 77%



U.S. Military action in Afghanistan is morally unjustified.

Indonesia 89%

Morocco 86%
Pakistan 80%
Iran 78%
Kuwait 69% -ungrateful bastards, then again they are such turds they almost deserved being invaded by saddam in the first place.
Lebanon 69%

 

[RanDum72]

The problem is not Islam itself as a religion but rather the people who are interpreting and teaching it seem have mentalities stuck in the middle ages ( and the number of people who actually believes them). There was a time when Muslims are more 'enlightened' than Christians. Saladdin was gong to allow Christians to go freely into Jerusalem for pilgrimage. Crusaders before that sacked Jerusalem and basically massacred the population. When Saladdin re-conquered Jerusalem, he allowed the Christians who surrendered to leave without harm. And to think that the Crusades happened approximately a thousand years ago. mAybe its a cycle, every thousand years there's a great religious conflict.

 

[gunf1ghter]

There's no question that the Islamic world of 1000 years ago was vastly different than the one we see today.

 

[pcmodem]

<< The problem is not Islam itself as a religion but rather the people who are interpreting and teaching it >>



EXACTLY!


On an interesting note, Hamas has made an about face and said that it would support the Saudi Peace Plan. Note sure if the other Palestinian organizations besides.
-PCM

 

[Nitemare]

<<

<< The problem is not Islam itself as a religion but rather the people who are interpreting and teaching it >>



EXACTLY!


On an interesting note, Hamas has made an about face and said that it would support the Saudi Peace Plan. Note sure if the other Palestinian organizations besides.
-PCM >>



That's great. Now if only they can get the other groups to accept the Plan than all these innocent lives can be spared.

Any chance for a link to the Hamas article, pcmodem?

 

[AnMig]

kind of unrelated but I was thinking about this while reading this thread.

Did America target civilians when they dropped the 2 Atomic bombs on hiroshima and nagasaki ?
couldnt they have dropped the bomb in a unpopulated area and see if they would have surrendered?

would the suicide bombers acts be considerd heroic if they targeted military personel or facilities?

just curious on your thoughts.

 

[Passner]

If America hadn't dropped those A-bombs, America would have had to invade Japan. Some estimates have said such an invasion would likely cost between 5-15 MILLION lives on both sides and several more years of fighting. Those bombs likely saved more Japanese lives than they took. Not that that is justified, but America and Japan were at war. You state that example but you overlook the many other times that civilians have been targeted in WW2 and the other wars of the century.

Israel and Palestine are not at war, however. This is a conflict of a Palestinian blows himself up and kills CIVILIANS and Israel is forced to act in self defense and sometimes civilains will be killed because of the Palestinians devilish tactics.

If this were a real war, and the Palestinians wanted to send little Ahmed onto the battlefield to blow himself up in combat, I would say, more power to him.

And nitemare, by saying many here is so "pro-Jew" and not pro-Israeli, you clearly shift your view from that of a conflict where peace needs to be hammered out for peaces sake to a conflict between Jew and Muslim.

And way to selectively look at a poll Lucky. What about the poll that said more than 70% percent of Palestinans support suicide bombings, and I belive polls of other Arab nations lead similar results. So maybe Tex wasn't so far off base with his remark.

 

[Passner]

by the way, it looks like the Arab League is going to boycott a mideast peace conference.

 

[Texmaster]

<< by the way, it looks like the Arab League is going to boycott a mideast peace conference. >>



There's a shocker.

Lucky, you might want to pay attention to Passner's post before posting again.