Music that flipped the script?

[Torn Mind]

Whenever anyone talks about the evolution of music it is important to both consider them as for-profit products, and the consideration of the general public. You don't compare apples to apples between Mozart and Burt Bacharach. "Success" is a measure that must be taken into consideration.

Lol, Mozart wrote "pop" for a commission. Eine Kleine Nachtmusik is literally such a work (and it's missing a movement). But not a lick of musicality is missing from it, and it is easily accessible to anyone with ears.

The last cycle of his symphonies may have been written for a trip to London but he died before that could happen. Even so, the 40th symphony certain held its own and the 41st's movement is one of the greatest confluences of styles of the time, along with bring contrapuntal development into the "Classical" language of the time and not being a rote Baroque quoting.

There's pop, and then there's pop that slays the ear with effectiveness.

 

[Torn Mind]

Yeah, Mozart's 20th piano concerto is my favorite. Deeply spiritual feeling, his minor key piano concertos are the greatest. Tchaikowsky's reverence for Mozart's Don Giovanni is just out of this world. You have to read what he wrote to understand. The Mozart works you mention are among my favorites.

Yes, the Eroica was magnificent. Somehow the 1st movement of the 5th stands as beyond an adventurous thrust forward. It's dark, brutal, unrelenting, seems to leave everything behind. What a proclamation of intent! Toscanini's recording, which I've had for decades, is flawless.

Most of the other things you talk about I know little or nothing about. I realize the Bee Gees went disco, but I loved their first stuff, I guess their first LP. Wonderful emotional music that makes my heart melt.

The thing about the 5th's first movement is that it is passionate but does not deviate the slightest from classical sonata form.


I find that the 19th is more evident of genius than the 20th. Mainly because it's so easy to get lost in the stream of notes that you don't realize the how the combination of notes are working to create the effect of the first movement.

Yasunori Mitsuda composed for video games, two of which were Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross. The two ending songs i mentioned prior are as follows:

To Far Away Times here, is in its original SNES 16-bit form. But the original always outdoes the arrangements with "real" instruments imo, which is hard to do.

Other Chrono Trigger favorites
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsj5xjoLXtE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfCV1bVOiGc

Chrono Cross opening:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J46RY4PU8a8

---------------------------------

Don Mclean's American Pie is a gem of storytelling.

 

[DigDog]

I'm pretty sure that Maggie's Farm is still being worked on.

@Torn Mind i'm only saying that for your convenience. I could well start posting obscure music which is defacto better than other, but unless you've been exposed to it before, you wouldn't know. Also, as i did say much later (you may be still reading through the long posts) while these styles of music still exist, they are not really considered popular today. A radio Dj will probably not pick Masonic Funeral Music K.477 as their pumpin' track of choice, although they may well have done so a few centuries prior.

Jimi Hendrix - Voodoo Chile (slight return) Live on Maui July 1970, 2 months before his death (I was on Maui then, but didn't attend)

hm. That would make you nearing your 70s ..
i was in NYC during Paul Simon's second free concert in Central Park.

Recorded	August 15, 1991

but did not attend. Didn't even know it was going on. I was walking around NYC that day for shopping with my trusty walkman and a copy of the tape of the original concert from 1982.



It just a playlist you're doing?

None of what you're posting "flipped the script". If we are going by that definition, you'll probably want Alphaville, RATM, Goldie, Madonna, etc .. that's a horse that's been beaten to death already. Should you play Bobby Brown Goes Down? You totally should. But then again, John Peel enjoyed no end of hostility until his very death, so maybe that's not a direction a commercial Dj will want to take.
You're a broadcast DJ, right? so you have your audio cues tapes, right?

You could cut yourself some interesting audio cues, and work with those. Spice some Classical, some early Jazz, into their modern counterparts. But, the stations that become successful are those which "toe the party line" and present themselves as a united front. Music is a social phenomenon, and few people listen to more than 1 genre of music. Nothing as frustrating as tuning in to your favourite psytrance radio station and hear The Travelling Wilburies being blasted out.
Peel had *some* success because he broadcast the music that was being recorded - and sold - RIGHT NOW. That's a direction you may want to take, as a possibility.

But .. the secret to success is to enjoy yourself. You are one person, and as such you're not as fickle as "the listeners". Do what's right for you, and those who are like you will join.

Anyway, here's what you've come up with, and what *i* would play instead:
Elvis - Houndog - instead play Don't
Sista Rosetta Tharpe - Didn't it Rain LIVE - you mean Jonnie B Goode? The follow up with:

Stravinsky - Rite of Spring - instead play tracks out of Vadrum's Classical Drumming

Toots - Reggae Got Soul - instead play Jimmy Cliff (Power And The Glory in its entirety)
Robert Johnson - Me and the Devil - instead play tracks out of Oh Brother (because of the better production)
MC5 - Kick Out the Jams - instead play anything by Black Flag
Bill Monroe tune - meh
Zappa - Bobby Brown - sure why not.
Public Enemy, from ITANOMTSU - Don't Believe The Hype? If you gonna play rap that's not modern rap, you can literally play anything. Sant N Pepa. Also, you gon' play Bring The Noise from It Takes A Nation, instead of the song that popularized them (and did more for rap than anything rap ever did) Bring The Noise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl1hgXfX5-U
Van Halen - Eruption - instead play Happy Trails and Big Bad Bill.
Jimi Hendrix - Voodoo Chile - anything by Hendrix is good. You may want to follow up with some Guthrie Govan, Paul Gilbert, all that G3 stuff.
Muffs - Oh Nina - i would approve but i warn you that straight-up punk is dangerous.
Dylan - Subterranean Homesick Blues - instead play It Aint' Me
Howlin' Wolf - A live version of Down in the Bottom t- instead play Thrill Is Gone live @ Cook County Jail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x9x3aAF8GA
Dolly Parton - Jolene - i dunno man, this just sticks out like a sore thumb.

On the other hand, Torn's selection is more interesting

Mozart has his 20th Piano Concerto, final movement of his 41st symphony, first and second movement of his Haffner Symphony. The Don Giovanni overture certainly kept the attention of people during the Romantic period even though the rest of his body of work fell into a deep slumber. Also, his Clarinet Concerto is well paired with Mariah Carey's singing.
Absolutely. I would recommend Mystery Guitar Man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuU00Q3RhDg

Beethoven's Eroica symphony was one of the many that began the transition to Romaticism. The recordings by Roger Norrington have a less Romantic, speedier take.
Get cue tapes. Make Cue of Verdi's Triumphal March from Aida. Profit.

Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue. I approve.

Bon Jovi's Slippery When Wet. I also approve. Raise Your Hand rocks. You will probably want to follow into the hair band trend, some stuff was amazing, Here I Go Again, Up Around The Bend (Hanoi Rocks), that stuff.

Brahms' Wiegenlied .. eh .. not my first pick.

Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto 2. Again, probably not something i'd choose.

Loads of Elvis and Beatles tracks (i approve)

Loads of Tchaikovsky(many familiar melodies, such as Nutcracker, Swan Lake, Sleeping Beauty) (i approve; just make a cue of What's Opera Doc?)

OST music from Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross - nah. different medium. if you reeeeally must, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGuuOdD6iY4 and then crank out some Ministry.

Mariah Carey's "Always Be My Baby". Be warned that if you start with Carey you'll go through All I Want For Christmas and eventually wind up playing Don't Let The Bells End all the way to The Strokes.

All Britney Spears' singles from her first two albums. Make sure to include the cover version of I Did It Again by Children Of Bodom. They also have a cracking version of Hell Is For Children.

Backstreet Boys' Millenium and spice it up with some Fingerbang by South park. You'll probably want to keep at hand a cue of The Rainforest Song as well.

Everything Mutt Lange put his hands on(80s rock, Shania's Twain records). Chick Rock always sells, Alanis Morrisette, Allanah Myles, and maybe Jennifer Connoly singing Sway?

Music from Joanna Levesque(short for JoJo) is amazing. If you gonna go with unknowns, you could try to tie them in to something, like Sick Muse https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytG2TaSzOys or Blonde Redhead. I would follow up with Brie Larsen's cover of Black Sheep. You should probably bundle all the Chick Rock together.

Bee Gees' Staylin' Alive.
Olivia Newton-John's Physical album, especially "Landslide" and the titular track. Sure. The "dark side" of disco has some really interesting tracks. Careful that you don't wind up listening to Disco Bambina. Also, plenty of remixes to dig into.

The Go-Gos and The Bangles. I also approves.

 

[dasherHampton]

I enjoy Moazrt's D minor piano concerto but it's not my favorite. I would have to give that distinction to the A major K. 488. Absolutely sublime, with a heart wrenching second movement. It's as perfect as the clarinet concerto.

The 1st movement of Beethoven's 5th does differ from the standard sonata allegro. Its concluding section is as long as the the first three (exposition, development, recap).

I was wondering - in what way is Eine Kleine Nachtmusik missing a movement?

 

[IronWing]

If you're going to play The Bangles, pull something off of their Faulty Records EP. Mary Street or How is the Air Up There would do nicely.

Actually, any song off that EP would suit.

 

[Spacehead]

It just a playlist you're doing?

None of what you're posting "flipped the script". If we are going by that definition, you'll probably want Alphaville, RATM, Goldie, Madonna, etc .. that's a horse that's been beaten to death already. Should you play Bobby Brown Goes Down? You totally should. But then again, John Peel enjoyed no end of hostility until his very death, so maybe that's not a direction a commercial Dj will want to take.
You're a broadcast DJ, right? so you have your audio cues tapes, right?

You could cut yourself some interesting audio cues, and work with those. Spice some Classical, some early Jazz, into their modern counterparts. But, the stations that become successful are those which "toe the party line" and present themselves as a united front. Music is a social phenomenon, and few people listen to more than 1 genre of music. Nothing as frustrating as tuning in to your favourite psytrance radio station and hear The Travelling Wilburies being blasted out.
Peel had *some* success because he broadcast the music that was being recorded - and sold - RIGHT NOW. That's a direction you may want to take, as a possibility.

But .. the secret to success is to enjoy yourself. You are one person, and as such you're not as fickle as "the listeners". Do what's right for you, and those who are like you will join.

Did you miss the parts of Muse's posts where he said he's been doing this for almost 40 years on (i think) the same collage radio station? He's just looking for suggestions for a special fund raiser show he's doing soon.

You seem to me to be trying to tell him the proper way(or a way) of being a commercial DJ & going into "DJing theory" or something. Not that i haven't enjoyed reading what you & others have posted, because i have.
I've just been a little confuse with the direction your posts have taken is all & from what i quoted from you above it seemed like a good time to clear things up.

 

[dasherHampton]

I don't think anyone in this thread mentioned Debussy yet.

You want a guy who flipped the script? Debussy made up a completely new set of rules for composing.

 

[Torn Mind]

Yeah, Mozart's 20th piano concerto is my favorite. Deeply spiritual feeling, his minor key piano concertos are the greatest. Tchaikowsky's reverence for Mozart's Don Giovanni is just out of this world. You have to read what he wrote to understand. The Mozart works you mention are among my favorites.

Yes, the Eroica was magnificent. Somehow the 1st movement of the 5th stands as beyond an adventurous thrust forward. It's dark, brutal, unrelenting, seems to leave everything behind. What a proclamation of intent! Toscanini's recording, which I've had for decades, is flawless.

Most of the other things you talk about I know little or nothing about. I realize the Bee Gees went disco, but I loved their first stuff, I guess their first LP. Wonderful emotional music that makes my heart melt.

The main reason I mentioned Stayin' Alive was because the soundtrack was for the movie Saturday Night Fever, starring John Travolta. That would set up the future cultural impact of Grease, with Barry Gibb contributing opening song.

I also meant the Haffner Serenade, not symphony. The second movement is a amazing example of profoundness within simplicity and the slightest of rhythmic variations when repeating a theme. The people present at Sigmund Haffner's wedding would have been witness to Mozart improvising on the violin in that movement. He put a little extra since Haffner was his friend.

I enjoy Moazrt's D minor piano concerto but it's not my favorite. I would have to give that distinction to the A major K. 488. Absolutely sublime, with a heart wrenching second movement. It's as perfect as the clarinet concerto.

The 1st movement of Beethoven's 5th does differ from the standard sonata allegro. Its concluding section is as long as the the first three (exposition, development, recap).

I was wondering - in what way is Eine Kleine Nachtmusik missing a movement?

Mozart listed in his catalog with five movements. Allegro - Minuet and Trio - Andante - Minuet and Trio - Finale. The first minuet is missing.

 

[dasherHampton]

That's interesting. I didn't know that.

I've played that piece dozens of times over the years and to my knowledge it's always been classified as a string quartet despite being his designating it as a serenade.

 

[Muse]

Did you miss the parts of Muse's posts where he said he's been doing this for almost 40 years on (i think) the same collage radio station? He's just looking for suggestions for a special fund raiser show he's doing soon.

You seem to me to be trying to tell him the proper way(or a way) of being a commercial DJ & going into "DJing theory" or something. Not that i haven't enjoyed reading what you & others have posted, because i have.
I've just been a little confuse with the direction your posts have taken is all & from what i quoted from you above it seemed like a good time to clear things up.

I'm 100% OK with digressions, it's not like I don't already have more material for the FR show than I can use. I will dig into the discussions here, probably not fully until after I upload the show for later broadcast, which I have to do by Thursday (i.e. 4 days from now).

I have a hopefully temporary problem. Around 1.5 hours ago the PC I'm working on for this blue screened and won't boot. Said something about missing a file. Hopefully I can fix it. I have some stuff on its SSD I don't have elsewhere (should be able to download that again, if necessary), however all the music and almost all of my supporting data are on my NAS, my faithful NAS, which hasn't burped particularly since I bought it almost 6 years ago. I should knock on wood and copy all that stuff to this, my only super functional other PC, just in case.

 

[Torn Mind]

I also will plug the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers theme.

 

[Muse]

Been fighting a losing battle to save the drive in the PC I have been using to create my shows. Fortunately, I have backups of the data on it I need. Gonna use this laptop instead of that mini-tower system. I absolutely don't understand how anyone can get by with just one computer these days.

 

[ralfy]

Look for catchy pop songs that are barely known or remembered today but were played in TV shows and movies. For example,

 

[ralfy]

 

[Torn Mind]

Roy Orbison is a must. Due to the fact he was not formally trained as a songwriter, his songs are not always formulaic. "In Dreams" is one such example.

The background singers are a star-studded cast for this Black and White special. Springsteen, Bonnie Riatt, Jennifer Warnes.


Anne Murray was impactful for the Canadian market and subsequent female Canadian artists, such as Celine Dion, Shania Twain, etc. Also fun fact, my mom would smuggle in Anne Murray to listen to while she grew up in China during the very beginning of Communist rule there; doing that was very much illegal and if you got caught, they government was going to come crashing into your life with the usual litany of compliance enforcement, to put that lightly. . Even her birth year was star-crossed, that being 1949.

Alan Jackson for the 90s country scene. Those songs had some pop and fire, like Don't Rock the Jukebox

 

[sdifox]

Roy Orbison is a must. Due to the fact he was not formally trained as a songwriter, his songs are not always formulaic. "In Dreams" is one such example.

The background singers are a star-studded cast for this Black and White special. Springsteen, Bonnie Riatt, Jennifer Warnes.


Anne Murray was impactful for the Canadian market and subsequent female Canadian artists, such as Celine Dion, Shania Twain, etc. Also fun fact, my mom would smuggle in Anne Murray to listen to while she grew up in China during the very beginning of Communist rule there; doing that was very much illegal and if you got caught, they government was going to come crashing into your life with the usual litany of compliance enforcement, to put that lightly. . Even her birth year was star-crossed, that being 1949.

Alan Jackson for the 90s country scene. Those songs had some pop and fire, like Don't Rock the Jukebox

I know Murray's son. He's a pothead.

 

[Muse]

I like that Roy Orbison idea, the others I don't know anything about. Yes, there's something to be said for a musician who will create a song that doesn't follow the script. So many songs seem to me like they are just nothing special at all. You could write a dozen a day just as good. As a DJ I have a critical sensitivity. I don't always use it, don't always apply it, I think, but I can and do refuse to listen to music that's terribly facile, egregiously repetitive, uninspiring and just seems to pass the time. I hear a lot of music nowadays and wonder why it's even there. Much of it seems to perpetuate zombie states.

I'm almost 2/3 done creating the show, about 1 more hour to go. I just created a WAV of what I have because if this computer crashes too (my original one I was using to create my shows remotely because of the pandemic crashed 3 days ago), I'd be screwed. So, the WAV of what I have is now on my server, which has 2 mirrored HDs, much more secure.

When I'm done, I'll post my play list in this thread.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Some off the beaten path but influential bands:
Jellyfish
Ayreon
The Gathering
Kings X

 

[BurnItDwn]

Dont know the work of Jellyfish, but Love everything Arjen has ever worked on and everything Anneke has ever been involved in. Kings X is fantastic too!

Some off the beaten path but influential bands:
Jellyfish
Ayreon
The Gathering
Kings X

 

[sdifox]

Lol, Mozart wrote "pop" for a commission. Eine Kleine Nachtmusik is literally such a work (and it's missing a movement). But not a lick of musicality is missing from it, and it is easily accessible to anyone with ears.

The last cycle of his symphonies may have been written for a trip to London but he died before that could happen. Even so, the 40th symphony certain held its own and the 41st's movement is one of the greatest confluences of styles of the time, along with bring contrapuntal development into the "Classical" language of the time and not being a rote Baroque quoting.

There's pop, and then there's pop that slays the ear with effectiveness.

I think of Mozart as a savant and Beethoven laboured at his creations.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Dont know the work of Jellyfish, but Love everything Arjen has ever worked on and everything Anneke has ever been involved in. Kings X is fantastic too!

Yeah, Arjen and Anneke are perfection, I was even impressed with what he did with James LaBrie, who to this day I still think is the wrong vocalist for Dream Theater.

Jellyfish hit right as hair metal was dying and grunge was emerging, but they fall in neither camp. The best description is Beatles or the Beach Boys with a little touch of Queen progressive grandeur and Sunset Strip grit.

 

[Muse]

I think of Mozart as a savant and Beethoven laboured at his creations.

Both musical geniuses. Mozart pumped it out a lot faster. Both could and did pen inferior works much of the time. So did Bach. I think Beethoven's batting average was a lot higher than Mozart. He worked harder at not producing inferior works. Look at his piano concertos. 5 of them, each well worth hearing, even the first. Mozart, well, there are a handful I would go to in a heartbeat, but probably 20 not so much. Beethoven, 9 symphonies. All worth paying attention to. Only the 2nd seems obscure. Mozart? 35, 38, 40, 41. The others? I probably wouldn't bother.

 

[repoman0]

So, I was happening to read through a linked tweet today, which was orange menace related.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1312667413389869056

These guys were busking in Union Station.
Reminds me a little of Tom Waits.
Very cool music and I read into these guys a little further and they are a group known around NY
as TooManyZooz..

Here a wiki site:

Too Many Zooz - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Too Many Zooz | Official Website

Too Many Zooz is an American brass band from Brooklyn, New York City, consisting of Leo Pellegrino (saxophone), Matt "Doe" Muirhead (trumpet), and David "King of Sludge" Parks (baritone saxophone). They are known for their energetic live performance and eclectic mix of musical styles including...

toomanyzooz.com

They have their music for sale via bandcamp.

Their self defined genre is Brass House, defined as a mix of jazz, Afro-Cuban rhythms, funk, EDM and house music.[3]

Here's a video from the subway called Bedford

I saw these guys in Cambridge MA on a whim having never heard of them and it was hilarious and awesome.

 

[dasherHampton]

Mozart? 35, 38, 40, 41. The others? I probably wouldn't bother.

Wait a minute - you think the 39th isn't worth listening to????

You NEED to spend more time with these works. This is as close to perfection as a young man can come:

I listen to it several times a week. It gives me joy and peace simultaneously.

 

[sdifox]