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Mushkin follows OCZ into the PSU game

Thug, your linkage is NG.

OCZ is moving from having Topower build what they offer to using Fortron/Source. Word
is OCZ will just be a dolled-up Epsilon 😉

My bet would be Mushkin OEMed by Topower.

I'll check your re-linkage later for the read. The more I read about re-branded PSUs, the
better I feel about no buying any 😀


...Galvanized
 
Originally posted by: GalvanizedYankee
Just went to Mushkin's site and no PSUs are listed. Checked thier forums=nothing is said.

Sure is a pricey unit EndGame.


...Galvanized
Click to expand...


Yeah........not something I'd jump on. I love their ram, but if I'm going to spend that kind of money on a P/S it will be a PC P&C.
 
A rebranded Topower 650W for > $200? More like $149. I mean.. I can understand a high intro price and then bring it down as the shelves become stocked, but there's a number of quality 750W and 900W units based on FSP, Andyson and Seventeam frames for around $150 that the price makes me laugh.

 
Everybody wants a piece of the pie!!! lolol
Mushkin is way behind the 8 ball.
I wouldn`t be suprised if the Mushkin Company got a visit from some men in Black suits saying -- Hey OCZ switched to a different company we need a client. Look at the success OCZ had with us.......ladedadedda....lolol
 
its listed on one site for now. i'm sure it will be less than $200 when sites like ZZF and Newegg start to carry it which wont be all that more than the 600W OCZ units...
 
Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
A rebranded Topower 650W for > $200? More like $149. I mean.. I can understand a high intro price and then bring it down as the shelves become stocked, but there's a number of quality 750W and 900W units based on FSP, Andyson and Seventeam frames for around $150 that the price makes me laugh.
Click to expand...

If that is the case I agree. Which is too bad, I alwyas liked Muskin RAM.
 
Link works & read it.

RailFusion?? One or two dual rail PSUs have that option. I bought a "quad" rail that's

42A combined, peak 45A and was thinking of jumping the rails but might consider putting

them on a switch. Not that it's necessary but just for the doing and very limited bragging

rights. Hope I offered something to your thread, other than crapping 😉


...Galvanized
 
Originally posted by: GalvanizedYankee
Link works & read it.

RailFusion?? One or two dual rail PSUs have that option. I bought a "quad" rail that's

42A combined, peak 45A and was thinking of jumping the rails but might consider putting

them on a switch. Not that it's necessary but just for the doing and very limited bragging

rights. Hope I offered something to your thread, other than crapping 😉


...Galvanized
Click to expand...

I think some Tagan units do something similar which is another OEM of Topower.
 
The one thing Topower(Mushkin) offers that the Epsilon(future OCZ) does not is individual line regulation. My guess is that this feature would be more attractive to the tweaker that wants/needs to adjust each line separately. The older Fortrons I've opened up only had one pot to adjust all rails. With one pot the 5V can be at mid-spec and the 12V at the high end of spec. Not a big deal but for the tweaker, maybe.

We will see the price fall. Ppl will buy them because of brand name loyalty. *shrugs*


...Galvanized
 
Albeit "rail fusion" sound interesting and I also read about early this morning around 3AM...
I don`t consider people being skeptical or commenting negatively to be "thread Crapping".....lolol

Albeit I have always thought of Mushkin as being a company that tried there best to put out a quality product....

So we will all wait and see!!!
 
Originally posted by: atybimf
I'm in the market for a new PSU and this may be it if the prices go down.
Click to expand...

If this is a just a Topower (which it probably is) then there are definitely better options (Seasonic, Forton-Source to name two), I don't see any reason to wait for this to hit retail.
 
Originally posted by: Operandi
Originally posted by: atybimf
I'm in the market for a new PSU and this may be it if the prices go down.
Click to expand...

If this is a just a Topower (which it probably is) then there are definitely better options (Seasonic, Forton-Source to name two), I don't see any reason to wait for this to hit retail.
Click to expand...

$99 would make it worth waiting for. 😉 Otherwise.. nah!
 
Originally posted by: GalvanizedYankee
Thug, your linkage is NG.

OCZ is moving from having Topower build what they offer to using Fortron/Source. Word
is OCZ will just be a dolled-up Epsilon 😉

My bet would be Mushkin OEMed by Topower.

I'll check your re-linkage later for the read. The more I read about re-branded PSUs, the
better I feel about no buying any 😀


...Galvanized




Galvanized just can't handle the fact that UL design certifications have alot of wiggle room in them. Take something as basic as a duplex wall outlet. Go to the local Homely Depot store or whatever and look for the one they rate for residential use. It costs around $2.00 U.S. Then near it, you'll find another duplex outlet rated by UL EXACTLY the same. The only difference is it says Commercial Grade or something like that on it. It will cost about $8.00 and grabs ahold of the prongs on the plug alot harder and keeps gripping over time harder, reducing transient line loss.

These same loose standards are applied by UL to power supplies and OCZ's have better caps that are less prone to leaking and making whiney noises like Galvanized makes every time I bring up the subject! 😉 How many times have we seen posts where people are talking about whining caps on the supposedly same/same power supplies as the OCZ's Powerstream Series power supplies?

I was trying to have a civil PM type conversation with Galvanized about this subject, but he said some very stupid and childish things, then blocked me from responding by PM. Now he sees fit to be the Misinformation Minister once again with this nonsense about dolled up anything. In his last PM to me, he tells me that all caps make noise and as an example, the noise you hear in SOME flash assemblies in cameras. That's due to miniturization considerations over noise and far from evidence that all caps make noise. In fact, in my OCZ 520 watt PowerStream power supply, even with the fans running full speed, they produce less than 22 db.

So OCZ's engineers design a power supply and then farm out the work... does that mean because the company doing the work looks at the OCZ and says something like...

You don't need those capacitors, we can get them much cheaper someplace else. You don't need the high quality fans (although I wish OCZ would quit with the stupid light show!) You don't need other quality parts either and the best part is UL will rate it as the same design! :disgust:

The OCZ PowerStream power supplies have a 5 year full warranty. Your power supplies warranty is how long?

If for some reason you need to rMA a PowerStream power supply, as soon as you give them the ground shipping track number for your part being returned, they second day air the replacement by Fed-Ex. This way, you get the replacement part BEFORE they get the rMA'd part! How long do you have to wait for your rMA's?

Yeah, the OCZ PowerStream power supplies come with a stupid fan light and a chrome outer case. They also have adjustment pots that most won't need to use. It would be nice to see OCZ stick that money into either making the price of their units come down or their pruduct's guts stouter. But to call it a dolled up anything is just more bling! :roll:

Does this mean that everything that OCZ sells is the very best? Of course not! They make a line called the ModStreams and they aren't nearly as stout rating per rating as the PowerStream models.


I really liked hearing way back, when a guy named Galvanized said go by specs. True, go by specs, but comprehend the specs, don't just read them!
Click to expand...
 
well said Lucky!!!

Let me tell you about CAP`s.....
I joined another site called badcaps.com!!

I started this thread--
ok- TEAPO vs PC Power & Cooling?


Quote: tiresias---
PC-Power and Cooling, which I have learned are made by Win-Tact, use almost exclusively Teapo-brand caps - you will doubtless have noticed this in the various 'reviews' out there of their Turbocool 510 and 850/1kw series. While not absolute trash like Chhsi and the like, Teapo's record as far as reliability is concerned falls generally short of stellar.

While if you search through this forum you'll find a number of documented Teapo failures, admittedly none specifically involve Turbocool PSUs - then again, this may be more a consequence of the relative rarity of PCP+C's products rather than a manifestation of Teapo's reliability.

Before I get going. let me say I am not trying to cause an argument or downplay what some would call an obvious issue.

Now follow my thinking..
We have TEAPO Cap`s in one corner.
We have PC Power & Cooling in the other corner.
Do we count PC Power & Cooling out because they supposedly use TEAPO Cap`s?

Or do we count TEAPO Cap`s out because well they are TEAPO and not as well made as a few other CAP manufacturers?

My point being ;for example --say all of a sudden there is a rash of Cap failures from several different brands. None of the brands are PC Power & Cooling. Yet because PC Power and Cooling uses TEAPO Caps do we penalize PC Power & Cooling along with those other brands?

What sets PC Power & Cooling apart then if for some reason they are NOT plagues by TEAPO Caps?

People use the bogus argument that well other brands sell alot more PSU`s than PC Power & Cooling and thats the reason we hear more about other brands having Cap issues.
PC Power & Cooling also has industrial clients..

I am going out on a limb here when I say this but percentage wise (not volume wise) PC Power & Cooling just doesn`t have Cap issues.

So somebody is going to go find 5 or 6 posts where the person says the PC Power & Cooling PSU sucked...yet I find it hard to believe that even people in these forums have said we have no idea why PC Power & Cooling PSU`s literally have no Cap issues.

So again I ask....do we penalize PC Power & Cooling for using TEAPO Caps?
Or do we say - Quality and reliabilty wise PC Power & Cooling holds there own?

What I find interesting is the way the author of this stated -
Quote:tiresias--
you will doubtless have noticed this in the various 'reviews' out there of their Turbocool 510 and 850/1kw series. While not absolute trash like Chhsi and the like, Teapo's record as far as reliability is concerned falls generally short of stellar.


Well then explain to me how a company like PC Power & Cooling has built a reputation for reliability and quality when they are using TEAPO Caps?

Let me say in closing that I understand there are some top quality brands on the market...Zippy is the main one that comes to mind!!!

Any comments or discussions... thx


heres a reply that was posted later on...
"If you check the Bad Caps Manufacturers list on this site- Teapo is on it. It's much worse to have these in a PSU than a MB because of the heat. I would be concerned. "Why would you be concerned? In all honesty I don`t get it.
Maybe I am missing something. But I have 2 PC Power & Cooling PSU`s.
Supposedly they use TEAPO Caps?
I ask you if TEAPO Caps are soo bad how has a compant like PC Power & Cooling been able over the years to build a reputation for reliability and quality?
let alone they have a 5yr warranty?

Correect me if I am wrong but perhaps your concern about TEAPO Caps is misplaced?

I`m not trying to start an argument but just because a company uses TEAPO Caps is not really a cause for concern!
Unless they have a very high percentage of there PSU`s bite the dust due to bad caps.

Over priced possibly...but they make a very good solid reliable PSU.

You can mention TEAPO all day but that still doesn`t take away from those PSU manufacturer`s that use TEAPO Caps and do not have issues with TEAPO Caps.

Have a nice day!!

Then I posted this in another thread in the same forum --(somebody elses quote)--"If you check the Bad Caps Manufacturers list on this site- Teapo is on it. It's much worse to have these in a PSU than a MB because of the heat. I would be concerned. "
Why would you be concerned? In all honesty I don`t get it.
Maybe I am missing something. But I have 2 PC Power & Cooling PSU`s.
Supposedly they use TEAPO Caps?
I ask you if TEAPO Caps are soo bad how has a compant like PC Power & Cooling been able over the years to build a reputation for reliability and quality?
let alone they have a 5yr warranty?

Correect me if I am wrong but perhaps your concern about TEAPO Caps is misplaced?

I`m not trying to start an argument but just because a company uses TEAPO Caps is not really a cause for concern!
Unless they have a very high percentage of there PSU`s bite the dust due to bad caps.

Over priced possibly...but they make a very good solid reliable PSU.

You can mention TEAPO all day but that still doesn`t take away from those PSU manufacturer`s that use TEAPO Caps and do not have issues with TEAPO Caps.

***************************************
Bottom line is there is a segment of knowledgeable people who use there knowledge to put down perfectly fine PSU`s such as your OCZ and my PC Power & Cooling yet they cannot give any reason why both our PSU companies have good reputations even supposedly both our PSU`s are -- OMG R-E-B-A-D-G-E-D!!!!!

They also cannot tell me why if the CAP`s my PSU supposedly uses are 2nd rate why PC Power & Cooling has a solid reputation as a quality well made and reliable PSU..

There excuse is albeit I agree it is a tad expensive. There excuse is....they use TEAPO CAPs. TEAPO CAP`s have abad reputation thus PC Power & Cooling also must have a bad reputation...

See there manner of thinking....lolol
Then to top that off.....they push this rebadged caca in our faces....thats too funny!!

Its also disappointing to think that people who have so much knowledge are so closed minded and believe that they know better than others!!

FINALLY....
With PC Power & Cooling if I was to call this morning and say hey I think I am having a PSU problem within 24 hrs I would have another PSU and then I could send this one back.
Thats how they operate no questions asked!!

I am glad OCZ appears also operates the same way!!

have a nice day!!
 
Luckyboy1,

Your post is way off topic. And, I'd hate to say it at risk of sounding rude or pretentious, you're completley off base on how the PSU market works.

GY said nothing about OCZ other than they're no longer using Topower, they're now using FSP. That's factual information. There's NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!

How the fsck did that provoke your post? We're talking about Mushkin power supplies here!

OCZ does not have power supply engineers. They did not engineer a power supply. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT! OCZ used a Topower P6 for their Powerstream. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT! OCZ now uses an FSP Epsilon. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!

I can buy the same thing as a Power Stream but with no LED fans and no VR pots that doesn't say Topower. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!

There is "wiggle room" in the UL. Most companies use the UL of the actual factory (Topower, FSP, etc.) because it costs $20K to submit a product to UL! Other companies will foot the bill (Antec, PCP&C) because they have a lot riding on their brand, but what makes their brand their brand may simply be the housing, cables, etc. There's nothing wrong with that.

Some companies will use the UL logo, but no UL number. Sometimes this is done for anonymotiy (Cooler Master not wanting people to know their 600W is a relabeled 500W, for example.) Sometimes this is done because the finished product uses UL parts, but the power supply itself isn't UL listed. There is something wrong with that. 🙁

Sometimes the same engineer may take his design to another factory and use the UL of the previous factory he worked with for a nominal fee because he doesn't want to pay the $20,000 to UL and/or there may be someone else's patent involved in the product (like Topower's 20+40-pin ATX connector that they're charging 5 cents a PSU for) and he doesn't want to have to increase his re-start-up costs. Personally, I think there's kind of something wrong with that, but I have a friend that did that so I'll digress.

I'm not saying that OCZ, Mushkin or whoever is totally ignorant when it comes to power supplies. I searched all night for that Mushkin in a Topower part number. Couldn't find it. It has some very unique characteristics. It has quad rails like the P9, but the combined wattage on the Mushkin is lower than the P9... even the P7! The 3.3V and 5V combined as well! 44A. I can get a TOP-650-P5 dual rail with 45A. Not that there's anything wrong with 44A on the combined 12's.

My guess is at this year's CES (timing of this release seem to coincide with that date plus the amount of time it takes to do R&D, test pre-production samples, work on label, box, etc.) Mushkin approached Topower and said, "So, you make power supplies. Can you make us a 650W quad-rail that can put out 44A total on the 12's?" and Topower said yes. There's NOTHING wrong with that.

My only complaint with the Mushkin is the price. $149 is what that should sell for. Not $200. $99 would be killer, but I'm guessing that their FOB Taiwan price on that in the quantities that Mushkin may be buying in is probably about $75. So after landing the product in the US and then getting it into the channel... they might be selling this to distro for $125 or so. Any more than that and they're making a mistake. If they go direct, they'll need a higher price because logistics can be a nightmare, but if they go through distribution, that's going to tack on another $20 or so. And that might be where the $200 is coming from. Which is too bad. If they can't do a large enough quantity to get a better price, they need to sell it direct and keep all of the margin for themselves. At least until demand is great enough to where they can secure their own line at Topower for a whole week and have about 20K units cranked out.

Of course, this could all be speculation. They could be getting COMPLETLEY raped by Topower, or they might think they can actually make that much margin on computer parts. Who really knows.

And as for "caps." That subject is all over the place. The biggest reason I see caps fail is from poor thermodynamics. One PSU with Teapos may blow up and another won't because one has good cooling and another doesn't. Or perhaps the caps are too close to the VR's or their heatsinks. I see good power supplies blow good caps all of the time because they use 120MM fans that spin at 1200RPM, for example. I'll pass. Is a PC Power and Cooling loud? Yes. But are the components getting proper cooling? Yes. Is it going to last longer and put out better power because of it? Yes. I'll take the latter.

If you're addressing GY's comment on not liking rebrands... leave him alone. There's a lot of really good PSU's out there that have a finished product that is meant to be what the designer meant to be. Zippy, Seasonic... those are engineered from beginning to end and the end product is superior. You can't argue that. There's not "debate" there. If Antec takes a Seasonic open frame, tells them to add a 12V rail, slaps on inadequate cooling and a modular interface.... yes, it's Seasonic that made that power supply, but I'm going to blame Antec when it blows up.

Some companies actually have an office overseas with their own engineers that have offices at the factories. But unless you know guys on the inside, you're not going to know who those factories are (and you can't ask because every re-brander is going to say, "this power supply is completely custom made for us") so if you want to "play it safe," I'm with GY... Stick to an OEM... or make friends in the industry. 😉
 
Jedi,

Obviously I'm riding the fence on this....

The reason why the OCZ is a good product because it's "rebadged" is because ALL IT IS is rebadged. But Luckyboy is saying OCZ designed the PSU, engineered it themselves, etc. THAT would be a good reason to assume that the OCZ power supply sucks. But it doesn't and that's because all they did was slap an OCZ label on a Topower. That's good. I'll take it.

PC Power and Cooling? They're whole thing is that they know what they're doing and have the proper testing methodology and equipment in house to make sure the finished product is as perfect as it can be. So the process is very much like Seasonic's and Zippy's except it takes place in two facilities instead of one.

Not speaking for GY, but my beef with rebrands come from companies like Cooler Master, MGE and Antec that have no PSU engineers of their own, are totally marketing driven so they focus too much on "wattage" and "quiet" to offer product that has longevity. Stick to cases guys. They don't blow up.
 
Note the price of $202. is marked USD - ridiculous. Spec listing says: "PFC - No" though it is obvious that the thing is AC autoranging which almost always means 'active PFC aboard'. IAC, I won't pay anywhere near $100. for anything that lacks aPFC. And since one can buy an Epsilon 600 for about $100., that pretty much makes the Mushkin irrelevant does it not?

G-Y,
Some split rail designs won't be too easy to bridge. If it was easy, you'd see a lot more PSUs with a bridge switch.

.bh.
 
Originally posted by: Zepper

G-Y,
Some split rail designs won't be too easy to bridge. If it was easy, you'd see a lot more PSUs with a bridge switch.

.bh.
Click to expand...

Not so. For the bridge switch to work, they would have to make the PSU not Intel ATX12V compliant.

It's easy to bridge. Most quad-rail SSI PSU's do anyway when you use them with a single CPU board. But the "bridge" is done externally with an 8-pin to 4-pin adapter, so that makes the PSU ATX12V complaint, even though you've got as much as 36A, in some cases, feeding nothing more than the CPU.

The limiter doesn't kick in because if the rails are of even capability and the wire gage and length are equal, then the load is evenly split.
 
Galvanized called the OCZ's a...

Word is OCZ will just be a dolled-up Epsilon...

The idea that OCZ is simply marketing a power supply that is from a guts standpoint exactly or even nearly the same quality as the company that made it for them is complete FUBAR! Want facts?... Here's some facts...

1) The cheapy version makes cap noise and fan noise and doesn't hold up as well under load over time and temp.

2) The OCZ PowerStream models are warranted better.

3) The idea that OCZ simply calls a company and tells them to repackage a product and send it out without having their own EE's dictate exactly what OCZ wants is nonsense. What, are you trying to say that OCZ simply goes on faith?


 
Originally posted by: Luckyboy1
Galvanized called the OCZ's a...
Word is OCZ will just be a dolled-up Epsilon...
The idea that OCZ is simply marketing a power supply that is from a guts standpoint exactly or even nearly the same quality as the company that made it for them is complete FUBAR! Want facts?... Here's some facts...
1) The cheapy version makes cap noise and fan noise and doesn't hold up as well under load over time and temp.
2) The OCZ PowerStream models are warranted better.
3) The idea that OCZ simply calls a company and tells them to repackage a product and send it out without having their own EE's dictate exactly what OCZ wants is nonsense. What, are you trying to say that OCZ simply goes on faith?
Click to expand...

You really have no clue how the industry works.

1) The cheapy version makes cap noise and fan noise and doesn't hold up as well under load over time and temp.
Click to expand...
How do you know this? Do you ahve one of eash model sitting side by side, running all day long for months, with 2 sep Db meters hooked up?
Pure specualtion (And bad at that)

2) The OCZ PowerStream models are warranted better.
Click to expand...
So what? I can buy anything and put a 10 year warranty on it if I want. If I take a 50.00 PSU, rebrand it, and charge 80.00 for it, I can AFFORD to extend the warranty on it. It's all about how much the returns cost in the long run, factoring in the actual defective percentage returned.

3) The idea that OCZ simply calls a company and tells them to repackage a product and send it out without having their own EE's dictate exactly what OCZ wants is nonsense. What, are you trying to say that OCZ simply goes on faith?
Click to expand...

No - it's the industry. They might get some things changed, but OCZ DOES NOT HAVE AN "EE" DEPARTMENT CALLING THE SHOTS. It is a marketing company, plain and simple. They have a laundry list of specs they want, and work with various manufacturers to get the product to where they want it. They are not designing circuits or anything like that.

/me gets popcorn - awaiting yet another idiotic response.

 
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