"Mumia" dodges the death penalty

[ichy]

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/pennsylvania/131566573.html

After 30 years of legalese bullshit it looks like Officer Daniel Faulkner won't be getting justice after all. The Supreme Court has refused to overturn a federal appeals court decision that spared Wesley Cook from execution. It's possible he could be re-sentenced to death, but with the way that appeals work in PA he'll die of natural causes long before the appeals on a new sentence are over. Score one for cop-haters, criminals and black-power racists.

BTW, it's worth noting that despite the three decades of appeals Cook's actual guilt has NEVER been doubted by the courts. He is guilty as hell. The overturning of his death sentence had to do with technicalities in how the sentencing hearing was conducted. This guy may not get juiced, but he is still a cop-killer and he will spend the rest of his life in prison.

 

[Lemon law]

In my mind, the flaw in the ichy argument is in concluding only enforcing the death penalty can be defined as justice. The point is and remains, the tax payers are on the hook to feed house and clothe this rather worthless human. So some say kill him to save money, but with all the appeals and other garbage, its even more expensive that way.

The point is and remains, we have a mad dog off the street as it is, making it safer for the rest of us.

 

[werepossum]

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/pennsylvania/131566573.html

After 30 years of legalese bullshit it looks like Officer Daniel Faulkner won't be getting justice after all. The Supreme Court has refused to overturn a federal appeals court decision that spared Wesley Cook from execution. It's possible he could be re-sentenced to death, but with the way that appeals work in PA he'll die of natural causes long before the appeals on a new sentence are over. Score one for cop-haters, criminals and black-power racists.

BTW, it's worth noting that despite the three decades of appeals Cook's actual guilt has NEVER been doubted by the courts. He is guilty as hell. The overturning of his death sentence had to do with technicalities in how the sentencing hearing was conducted. This guy may not get juiced, but he is still a cop-killer and he will spend the rest of his life in prison.

Are you sure about that? The guy's a hero to much of the left. Assuming the Republicans take power in 2012 and fail to significantly improve (or even worsen) the economy, the Democrats could sweep back into power with enough of a perceived mandate to put this guy back on the street, probably in some well-paid government position with the word "laureate" in the title.

Personally I think he should have been gently assisted into assuming room temperature long ago.

 

[ichy]

Maureen Faulkner agrees with my take on justice.

Besides, it's not like inmates serving a life sentence don't appeal.

 

[ichy]

Are you sure about that? The guy's a hero to much of the left. Assuming the Republicans take power in 2012 and fail to significantly improve (or even worsen) the economy, the Democrats could sweep back into power with enough of a perceived mandate to put this guy back on the street, probably in some well-paid government position with the word "laureate" in the title.

Personally I think he should have been gently assisted into assuming room temperature long ago.

Are you retarded? For starters this is a STATE case, so what happens in the federal government is irrelevant. Also, are you aware of the fact that the person who put Mumia on death row was a Democrat, the then Philadelphia DA Ed Rendell?

And no, he isn't a hero to much of the left. He's a hero to the same sorts of idiots who attend Occupy Wall Street protests.

 

[QuantumPion]

And no, he isn't a hero to much of the left. He's a hero to the same sorts of idiots who attend Occupy Wall Street protests.

What's the difference? Obama is in favor of student loan debt forgiveness, confiscation of millionaires' wealth, punitive regulations on banks and corporations, etc. I see no substantive difference between Obama and the wall street protestors.

 

[werepossum]

Are you retarded? For starters this is a STATE case, so what happens in the federal government is irrelevant. Also, are you aware of the fact that the person who put Mumia on death row was a Democrat, the then Philadelphia DA Ed Rendell?

And no, he isn't a hero to much of the left. He's a hero to the same sorts of idiots who attend Occupy Wall Street protests.

If the Democrats take Washington by a big margin, expect state Democrats to also win big and to be emboldened. And the people who Occupy Wall Street protests are a core (and key) part of the left - just look at their support from the likes of President Obama and many other Democrat politicians. They know this is their base. And yeah, Ed Rendell rules, but he's more of a moderate.

For those interested, here's the Fraternal Order of Police's list of Mumia supporters. Note such leftist luminaries as Representatives Charlie Rangel, Ron Dellums, Chaka Fattah and John Conyers, John Burton (Democrat leader of the California State Senate), Ramsey Clark, Noam Chomsky, and a litany of other well-known leftists. Make your own conclusions.

http://www.fop.net/causes/faulkner/projamal.shtml

 

[ichy]

Ramsey Clark and Noam Chomsky are hardly representative of the American left, nor of the types of Democrats who get elected to statewide office in Pennsylvania. Chaka Fattah is an idiot who gets re-elected by his braindead constituency but will never accomplish anything of significance. You also conveniently ignore the fact that the DA who prosecuted Mumia and two of his three successors who fought to uphold the conviction and sentence (Lynne Abraham and R. Seth Williams) are Democrats. This scumbag will never be executed but he'll also never be released.

 

[fskimospy]

What's the difference? Obama is in favor of student loan debt forgiveness, confiscation of millionaires' wealth, punitive regulations on banks and corporations, etc. I see no substantive difference between Obama and the wall street protestors.

 

[fskimospy]

If the Democrats take Washington by a big margin, expect state Democrats to also win big and to be emboldened. And the people who Occupy Wall Street protests are a core (and key) part of the left - just look at their support from the likes of President Obama and many other Democrat politicians. They know this is their base. And yeah, Ed Rendell rules, but he's more of a moderate.

For those interested, here's the Fraternal Order of Police's list of Mumia supporters. Note such leftist luminaries as Representatives Charlie Rangel, Ron Dellums, Chaka Fattah and John Conyers, John Burton (Democrat leader of the California State Senate), Ramsey Clark, Noam Chomsky, and a litany of other well-known leftists. Make your own conclusions.

http://www.fop.net/causes/faulkner/projamal.shtml

So the Democrats won big in 2006 and 2008, having some of their largest majorities in a generation. Why didn't they free Mumia then?

 

[Thump553]

The case isn't over. His current death penalty was thrown out but the state has the option of holding a new death penalty phase which could result in a new death sentence.

OP's statement about the murdered cop not getting justice is factually wrong.

As far as GOP v. Dem, really the only political issue here is how much in time and resources society is going to waste pursuing death penalties. Personally my judgment is both financially cheaper and better ethical resolution to lock them up and throw away the keys than going through a state imposed murder system.

 

[werepossum]

So the Democrats won big in 2006 and 2008, having some of their largest majorities in a generation. Why didn't they free Mumia then?

Because they didn't want to waste the political capital, obviously.

To be clear, I'm not saying that some level of Democrat victory will necessarily result in Mumia being freed. I'm merely pointing out that assuming he will remain forever incarcerated is not necessarily a safe bet. The man has quite a lot of support in far-left circles, as does the concept of not executing convicts or even incarcerating them for life. Witness Willy Horton - a man sentenced to life without parole is not necessarily beyond progressives' ability to spring.

 

[fskimospy]

Because they didn't want to waste the political capital, obviously.

To be clear, I'm not saying that some level of Democrat victory will necessarily result in Mumia being freed. I'm merely pointing out that assuming he will remain forever incarcerated is not necessarily a safe bet. The man has quite a lot of support in far-left circles, as does the concept of not executing convicts or even incarcerating them for life. Witness Willy Horton - a man sentenced to life without parole is not necessarily beyond progressives' ability to spring.

Oh jesus. So despite making zero effort to do this in the past, there is a nebulous threat that it will happen in the future because fringe groups want him released. This is paranoid fantasy.

Also, you know that the furlough program that Horton was released under was signed into law by a Republican, right?

 

[ichy]

The case isn't over. His current death penalty was thrown out but the state has the option of holding a new death penalty phase which could result in a new death sentence.

Mumia is in his 50s now. A new death sentence would result in an additional 20 or 30 years of appeals. Kind of pointless.

 

[fskimospy]

Mumia is in his 50s now. A new death sentence would result in an additional 20 or 30 years of appeals. Kind of pointless.

So they are taking his life either way, why does the method matter?

 

[theeedude]

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/pennsylvania/131566573.html

After 30 years of legalese bullshit it looks like Officer Daniel Faulkner won't be getting justice after all.
...
This guy may not get juiced, but he is still a cop-killer and he will spend the rest of his life in prison.

Sounds like he is getting justice after all. He's not getting eye for an eye.

 

[woolfe9999]

I don't agree with the death penalty, but it's been clear forever that this guy is guilty as hell. He can rot in prison. It's probably best if the court activity finally comes to an end, if for no other reason to bring some closure to the matter.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Personally I think he's guilty, but the first-degree murder charge and death sentence have always struck me as a little overambitious given the facts - I don't see the evidence of premeditation. I don't see how society or anyone else would benefit from his being executed, in any case. Meanwhile, he has spent 30 years behind bars and nothing about the crime or him as an individual leads me to think he would pose a significant danger to society if he were released. Honestly I think he has paid his debt to society and I wouldn't lose any sleep if he were freed.

 

[werepossum]

Oh jesus. So despite making zero effort to do this in the past, there is a nebulous threat that it will happen in the future because fringe groups want him released. This is paranoid fantasy.

Also, you know that the furlough program that Horton was released under was signed into law by a Republican, right?

That's a bit disingenuous. Yes, Republican Governor Sargent signed into law a bill setting up a furlough program. Murderers were not eligible. The Massachusetts Supreme Court's Men-In-Black, in their infinite wisdom, ruled that the state could not exclude murderers from the program. The Massachusetts legislature, not being idiots of SCOTSOM caliber, promptly passed a law making murderers specifically ineligible for furlough. Democrat Governor Michael "I'll raise your taxes and you'll like it" Dukakis vetoed that law, keeping murderers like Horton eligible for unsupervised, 48 hour leave. During the 88 election, it came out that 95% of Massachusetts' escaped felons actually hadn't escaped at all; they were intentionally freed and then failed to return to prison. (Which of course no rational person could have foreseen. I mean, who knew convicted felons don't obey rules and don't like prison?)

Nevertheless, I'd say this story supports rather than discredits my contention that it could easily happen again.

 

[werepossum]

Personally I think he's guilty, but the first-degree murder charge and death sentence have always struck me as a little overambitious given the facts - I don't see the evidence of premeditation. I don't see how society or anyone else would benefit from his being executed, in any case. Meanwhile, he has spent 30 years behind bars and nothing about the crime or him as an individual leads me to think he would pose a significant danger to society if he were released. Honestly I think he has paid his debt to society and I wouldn't lose any sleep if he were freed.

He shot a policeman in the back, then walked over and executed him with one shot to the head at point blank range. Sounds pretty premeditated to me.

Personally I set the value of that at significantly more than 30 years, but to each his own.

 

[ichy]

Sounds like he is getting justice after all. He's not getting eye for an eye.

The only justice for a murderer is death.

 

[ichy]

Meanwhile, he has spent 30 years behind bars and nothing about the crime or him as an individual leads me to think he would pose a significant danger to society if he were released. Honestly I think he has paid his debt to society and I wouldn't lose any sleep if he were freed.

Mumia can be released to walk the streets again as soon as Officer Faulkner is able to.

Incarceration isn't just about protecting people, it is also about making those who commit terrible crimes suffer for what they did.

 

[Howard]

Incarceration isn't just about protecting people, it is also about making those who commit terrible crimes suffer for what they did.

I think you might be a little off the mark there.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

He shot a policeman in the back, then walked over and executed him with one shot to the head at point blank range. Sounds pretty premeditated to me.

Personally I set the value of that at significantly more than 30 years, but to each his own.

That suggests deliberation, not premeditation. It depends on the jurisdiction but as a general rule premeditation = planning.

There is nothing about what happened here that suggests to me this was something he had any intention of doing until the shooting occurred. I am not in any way excusing what he did, but there's a big difference between a preplanned murder and an intentional killing in the heat of passion. It appears to me he thought that Officer Faulkner posed a danger to his brother and took action (stupidly and wrongfully) to defend him. In that context I don't consider the moments between the first shot and the headshot as sufficient time to develop premeditation.

I would guess (based on nothing but my own experience as a prosecutor and defense attorney) that this was charged as first-degree murder because a cop died and the prosecutor thought the jury would split the baby and settle on second-degree murder. I agree the murder of a cop is a Big Deal (capitalization intended), and don't take umbrage with charging this as first-degree murder, but I also don't believe that was the most appropriate charge. Abu-Jamal's stupidly narcissistic and crazy behavior during the trial probably sealed his fate in that he was acting like a dangerous, militant black cop killer - he made it easy for the jury to hate him and fear him.

 

[theeedude]

The only justice for a murderer is death.

That's not what our justice system says. Maybe you should move to Saudi Arabia.