Mueller ready to deliver key findings - too late now?

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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
15,424
136
Comey got caught between leaking assholes in the NY office & a promise he made to the Senate committee. If he didn't reveal the re-opening of the investigation to the Senate committee it would have leaked anyway & he'd have been a liar. He really had no choice.

I will say, however, that Trump firing him was extremely arrogant & stupid. It set off the whole Special Counsel investigation & he can't really stop it.

Mueller needs to be apolitical & to be seen as such to maintain credibility. You know, Joe Friday- "Just the facts, ma'am." He'll stay as far away from the election as he can to maintain that, rightfully so. It's in the interests of the people and of Justice.

Just a small correction. Comey put himself in between a rock and hard place. Had he not commented or admitted there was an investigation in the first place he would never have had to release info about huma's laptop.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
15,424
136
In all honesty, I still say Comey fucked that whole thing up with his little October dud.

Mueller is doing the right thing by not dropping any bombs right before the election.

We can assume he'll find smoking guns and be pissed it's not out there to see, but there is a good possibility that he doesn't find something conclusive, and had it been out Trump would say he's vindicated and completely deflated D sails.

Worst case, Ds don't capture the house, Trump fires Mueller and Rs just look the other way.

Then we'd really be fucked

The point was compuwiz1's hypocrisy. He cares now and believes Mueller shouldn't reveal anything before the election because it would most likely hurt his team, however he was silent about affecting the election when the info released hurt the other team.
 
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Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,538
759
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You need to cite Lynch & Yates to make that claim. We also need to specify that second guessing is easy & if Comey made mistakes they were honest ones.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/28/poli...r-tells-senate-judiciary-committee/index.html

(CNN)Attorney General Loretta Lynch and Deputy Attorney General Sally Yates disagreed with FBI Director James Comey's decision to notify Congress about his bureau's review of emails potentially related to Hillary Clinton's personal server, law enforcement officials familiar with the discussion said.

I think this tweet below from him is very telling. The truth of the matter is that they weren't honest ones. He put out a letter with innuendo and a lack of facts about what was going on when he knows full well the media would jump on it. He didn't answer Reid begging him to expose the explosive national security threat. He somehow thinks a very low chance of a criminal transgression of mishandling classified material sliding by is somehow "catastrophic" (line of succession is okay in this instance!), yet a foreign intelligence operation quid pro quo with Donnie's campaign somehow isn't? Why? He didn't like Clinton or Democrats! This will go down as one of the greatest intelligence operations in history with the America election stolen by the KGB and a giant con man installed as their puppet. Months and months, yet the FBI couldn't even protect us from it, while people on Twitter knew what was going on.

"Democrats, please, please don’t lose your minds and rush to the socialist left. This president and his Republican Party are counting on you to do exactly that. America’s great middle wants sensible, balanced, ethical leadership."
-- Comey

None of that even matters in the context of the Special Counsel. Mueller doesn't have to make that choice. He's just doing his job, chasing down leads & indicting bad actors. He's also controlling the narrative, something Comey couldn't do. I'll tend to trust whatever evidence he unearths. If it means Trump's ass is in a sling, he'll hand that over to Congress. Anybody else just gets busted. And that's the way it should be.

If Democrats can't win either House, Mueller will look incredibly foolish. There is possibly a 20% chance of this happening.
 
Aug 11, 2008
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-key-findings-in-his-trump-probe?srnd=premium

My worry is this- even 6 months ago this seemed like it would be the lifesaver. But today, we have completely abandoned any semblance of objective truth.

People follow their own respective political media diet. In effect, we have two different realities.

Today, Trump can entirely dismiss Mueller's report as fake. You know his base and Republican party will go along with it today.

So what now?

Moved from OT.
admin allisolm
Yea, you are correct. It is actually too late for two reasons. First, Trump has continued to indoctrinate his base that anything unfavorable is "fake news". Secondly, I think a lot of people like me, that would have loved to see something proven that would lead to impeachment, have become weary of the process and will question the validity of something that it took so long to discover.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,238
136
The point was compuwiz1's hypocrisy. He cares now and believes Mueller shouldn't reveal anything before the election because it would most likely hurt his team, however he was silent about affecting the election when the info released hurt the other team.

He doesn't often have much to say worth listening to, so I stopped a while ago.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
50,853
136
Yea, you are correct. It is actually too late for two reasons. First, Trump has continued to indoctrinate his base that anything unfavorable is "fake news". Secondly, I think a lot of people like me, that would have loved to see something proven that would lead to impeachment, have become weary of the process and will question the validity of something that it took so long to discover.

Why does the length of the investigation have any bearing on the validity of the findings?

Regardless, this is a counterintelligence investigation and by those standards it has moved very quickly.
 
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Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,238
136
Yea, you are correct. It is actually too late for two reasons. First, Trump has continued to indoctrinate his base that anything unfavorable is "fake news". Secondly, I think a lot of people like me, that would have loved to see something proven that would lead to impeachment, have become weary of the process and will question the validity of something that it took so long to discover.

This really makes no sense.

For someone proporting to be anti-Trump, you are biting hard on his distortions.
 

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
Mueller should follow the "Comey Rule" and release his findings a week before midterms. Let Americans decide whether they want Trump to retain absolute power. His findings won't be acted upon by congress anyway, whenever he releases them.


Trump is a foreign intelligence asset and every minute he stays in power is another minute Russia, Israel, and Saudi Arabia have to manipulate our government and destroy our sovereignty.
 
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mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,597
11,282
136
Mueller is doing the right thing by not dropping any bombs right before the election.

Generally I agree, though it depends on how far you're going with that line of thinking. IMO the FBI investigation staff should do their jobs to the best of their ability and only conclude the investigation when all likely leads have been exhausted / concluded. No attempt should be made to rush things. But if there are charges to be brought in a mature manner, those should not wait for the mid-terms.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,238
136
Generally I agree, though it depends on how far you're going with that line of thinking. IMO the FBI investigation staff should do their jobs to the best of their ability and only conclude the investigation when all likely leads have been exhausted / concluded. No attempt should be made to rush things. But if there are charges to be brought in a mature manner, those should not wait for the mid-terms.

Absolutely agree.
I hope they've had their heads down trying to get things wrapped up and ready to drop ASAP after polls close bc I think things may move very quickly and they could miss their chance.

You know sessions is on the chopping block, and Trump would love to get rid of Rosenstein too.

Nothing stopping him after midterms from going after the investigation and trying to get lackeys in place, esp if the R Senate picks up some seats.

It's top priority for Trump reelection chances that nothing big comes out.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
Pretty sure if it was bad, he’d release the report right before midterms
No way, He's only had a couple of "big fish" (Manafort & Cohen) recently talk, it's going to take time to link all they have told him to make sure it's correct. Nothing from Mueller himself about this being near the end of the investigation.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,221
4,452
136
Mueller is doing the right thing by not dropping any bombs right before the election.

And we will all just keep doing the right thing, and those willing to not do the right thing will just keep winning until those willing to do the right thing are all gone.

Mueller needs to be apolitical & to be seen as such to maintain credibility. You know, Joe Friday- "Just the facts, ma'am." He'll stay as far away from the election as he can to maintain that, rightfully so. It's in the interests of the people and of Justice.

Mueller's credibility is going to be questioned no matter what he does. The Republicans have been laying the ground work for that since the beginning, and the longer it takes for him to release his findings the longer they have to solidify their propaganda. By the time he is done with this investigation I expect that half of America will consider him the new Benedict Arnold.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/28/poli...r-tells-senate-judiciary-committee/index.html

(CNN)Attorney General Loretta Lynch and Deputy Attorney General Sally Yates disagreed with FBI Director James Comey's decision to notify Congress about his bureau's review of emails potentially related to Hillary Clinton's personal server, law enforcement officials familiar with the discussion said.

I think this tweet below from him is very telling. The truth of the matter is that they weren't honest ones. He put out a letter with innuendo and a lack of facts about what was going on when he knows full well the media would jump on it. He didn't answer Reid begging him to expose the explosive national security threat. He somehow thinks a very low chance of a criminal transgression of mishandling classified material sliding by is somehow "catastrophic" (line of succession is okay in this instance!), yet a foreign intelligence operation quid pro quo with Donnie's campaign somehow isn't? Why? He didn't like Clinton or Democrats! This will go down as one of the greatest intelligence operations in history with the America election stolen by the KGB and a giant con man installed as their puppet. Months and months, yet the FBI couldn't even protect us from it, while people on Twitter knew what was going on.

"Democrats, please, please don’t lose your minds and rush to the socialist left. This president and his Republican Party are counting on you to do exactly that. America’s great middle wants sensible, balanced, ethical leadership."
-- Comey



If Democrats can't win either House, Mueller will look incredibly foolish. There is possibly a 20% chance of this happening.

So, there's second hand rumor that Lynch & Yates disagreed with Comey. Pfft.

WTF innuendo do you think you're talking about? Here's the letter-

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/10/28/us/politics/fbi-letter.html

Mueller will look good no matter who's in power if he just keeps doing his job, filing airtight indictments & locking up miscreants. Whatever report he issues when he's done obviously cannot be suppressed.
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,538
759
146
So, there's second hand rumor that Lynch & Yates disagreed with Comey. Pfft.

WTF innuendo do you think you're talking about? Here's the letter-

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/10/28/us/politics/fbi-letter.html
It was virtually 100% likely that they were just duplicates. The letter is bullshit. Hillary quickly asked for all the facts on the matter as a result, and many Democrats complained about the framing.

Mueller will look good no matter who's in power if he just keeps doing his job, filing airtight indictments & locking up miscreants. Whatever report he issues when he's done obviously cannot be suppressed.

We need as much leverage as possible. We could still end up with a failed impeachment, even if Democrats take the House. These are dangerous people, and they all need to be dislodged by any means necessary.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,936
5,560
136
There should be no findings released before the mid-terms just as there shouldn't have been any late October shens in 2016...
If there is solid evidence against Trump or the republican party, shouldn't the voters see it before making a choice?
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
15,424
136
That's false. The OIG made a well publicized security referral to the FBI in July 2015-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton_email_controversy#July_2015_–_Security_referral

How does that change anything? He inserted himself into the spotlight when he didn't need to.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/02/us/politics/fbi-hillary-clinton-emails.html

His attempt to be transparent was against FBI policy. These are both decisions he made on his own that he wasn't required to make.

I don't feel sorry for the guy one bit.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
50,853
136
If there is solid evidence against Trump or the republican party, shouldn't the voters see it before making a choice?

I think this is a really tough question. The obvious answer is 'yes', but that's a very dangerous route to go as it basically permanently establishes federal law enforcement as a partisan entity. Then again if they don't release until after the election and it's as bad as I suspect then they will probably be viewed as partisan anyway. In this case as with Comey I think their best defense is to stick to procedures established before any of this went down. (I think Comey would have been on far firmer ground had he not violated FBI policy during the election)

Personally I think if Mueller uncovered an immediate threat to the country he should release it regardless of the consequences. Other than that I think he shouldn't, even though its release would likely help the Democrats. It's not an easy choice though, both choices seem bad.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
If there is solid evidence against Trump or the republican party, shouldn't the voters see it before making a choice?
I doubt he has it locked up by now, Manafort has been to see Mueller 9 times in the last month. It will take time to connect all the dots, I don't want him to jump the gun and I don't think he will as long as Rosenstein is in place.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,936
5,560
136
It's going to be a shit show no matter how it goes down. But if there are established rules then those should be followed. I'm good with whatever they find, if Trumps dirty, impeach him. If that can't be proven then drop it.

I'll never understand Comeys act back in 16. Such egregious stupidity should have had him fired on the spot.

Edit: I'm responding to spy here.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,222
10,877
136
No way, He's only had a couple of "big fish" (Manafort & Cohen) recently talk, it's going to take time to link all they have told him to make sure it's correct. Nothing from Mueller himself about this being near the end of the investigation.
Mueller's circling Stone now, much to my delight.