Much Ado About Not Much

[monovillage]

You can totally blame them for unfounded hysteria. Hell, i still remember the NRA saying that a first term Obama presidency would be disastrous for gun rights. Then when nothing happened they said it was because he was trying to fool everyone so that he could steal all your guns in his second term.

These people are paranoid lunatics.

You seem to be the one that's frothing.

 

[lotus503]

Yeah that's not neutered...nor is that site anything less than propaganda for gun control. While the law may have drawbacks it was drafted to prevent a national "registry" of gun owners, which is a good thing. That it has in a few cases hampered law enforcement is sad but hardly can any rational person say it's neutered the ATF.

And I highly doubt you're versed enough to know he wouldn't try an EO for the AWB or at least the magazine limit...but I'll accept that you were certain he couldn't legally do it, doesn't mean he might not have tried

What you fail to take into account is cause and effect of the Tiahrt amendment, which is exactly what the Daily show did a masterful job in highlighting.

Often when there is an issue I purposfully seek out sites that have an opposing viewpoint so I can get a rounded view of the issue from all perspectives.

I don't dismiss sites based on my understanding of where their agenda sits.
I read them all, even the kooky ones, only when you have a complete picture should you draw conclusions.

 

[exdeath]

We need to take care of ourselves. If you know someone who is questionable, offer to speak with them, let them vent, keep an eye on them, be proactive in their lives. Don't just leave your weapons laying around for them like this guys mom did and ignore them.

Of course that won't happen in today's busy "I have two SUVs to pay for" latch key society.

 

[werepossum]

i agree. all (but 16) are things i agree with. unless more information comes out they are good.

16 though bugs me. it's not my doctors business if i have guns in the house. And what is the point anyway?

heh my kids doctor is pro-gun anyway. We have talked hunting often and does ask when i'm going to get my daughter hunting (she has gone small game hunting already).

Agreed. Eskimospy might have a valid point except that of people I know who've been asked this question - and it is asked a LOT nowadays, from schools to doctors to day care - and asked why, the answer was never "Because I have some valuable information for gun owners." Instead, the answer is inevitably "Because I have to enter it into the computer." That's the answer I was given as well.

5 is problematic as well. During the Carter administration the BATF went wild confiscating collections, including such things as sectioned demonstration weapons and gyro pistols for which ammunition was never manufactured. Many weapons (including functional but legal weapons) were not returned for decades in spite of numerous court orders to do so; I'm not sure if they have ever been returned. Without some stringent legal requirements, the BATF would be free to retain an illegally seized weapon indefinitely as long as their background check was incomplete.

14 bugs me as well. Anyone remember the CDC making an abortive claim of authority over handguns on the grounds they were a public health concern?

 

[Double Trouble]

The EO's seem fairly reasonable to me, with the exception of being somewhat vague which means we'd have to see the details of implementation to know if they are OK or not. At the same time, states like NY are going nuts passing insane restrictions on people's rights, adding more fuel to the fire for gun nuts and adding credence to their views previously deemed paranoid.

I read a story this morning about how gun sales (all kinds, small arms, pistols, rifles, "assault weapons" are going through the roof and creating shortages. The irony is that by passing crazy laws like those in NY, the anti gun crowd has succeeded in adding millions more weapons on the street and strengthened the NRA.

 

[corwin]

What you fail to take into account is cause and effect of the Tiahrt amendment, which is exactly what the Daily show did a masterful job in highlighting.

The main effect I see is that the fed doesn't have a master list of everyone who buys a gun, a federal registry would be insane which is exactly what is being prevented by that amendment. If that hampers a few investigations a little sucks ass, but the "greater good" and all right?

 

[lotus503]

The main effect I see is that the fed doesn't have a master list of everyone who buys a gun, a federal registry would be insane which is exactly what is being prevented by that amendment. If that hampers a few investigations a little sucks ass, but the "greater good" and all right?

when I see the effect it has on the ATF's ability to actually do its intended job, yes I do think that's alright. there are ways to wright an amendment that achieve the desired protections without causing the ATF difficulty in doing its job.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Not really, you seem to forget that Vice-President Biden came out and very publicly announced that Obama was going to take some type of mysterious action with executive orders days ahead of Obama's announcement.

There's nothing in there that comes close to the ridiculous paranoia that's been exhibited by the far right over the last week.

You can hardly blame pro-gun groups for reacting to the threat even when no particulars were mentioned.

I can, and I have. It was stupid, irrational, and if anything hurt their standing in the ongoing debate over this subject.

 

[JohnShadows]

Homicides in the US have been declining since 1990. These mass shooting are anomalies.

 

[sigurros81]

Frankly, there are paranoia coming from all sides. The NRA are a bunch of whackos funded by weapon manufacturers so I don't even consider when I'm trying to have a serious intelligent debate.

Paranoia from the right:
-OMG they're taking our second amendment rights away!
-OMG Obama is taking our arms away so we cannot defend against the invasion of the new communist government

Paranoia from the left:
-OMG, there's a school shooting, let's ban "assault rifles", even though we don't know how to properly define what an assault rifle is.
-OMG think of the children, there are too many guns!

 

[lotus503]

Frankly, there are paranoia coming from all sides. The NRA are a bunch of whackos funded by weapon manufacturers so I don't even consider when I'm trying to have a serious intelligent debate.

Paranoia from the right:
-OMG they're taking our second amendment rights away!
-OMG Obama is taking our arms away so we cannot defend against the invasion of the new communist government

Paranoia from the left:
-OMG, there's a school shooting, let's ban "assault rifles", even though we don't know how to properly define what an assault rifle is.
-OMG think of the children, there are too many guns!

/thread

 

[cwjerome]

What's the lesson learned here, OP? That talk of Obama, EOs, and gun control created buckwild speculation, or that despite the fairly harmless EOs the president will be pushing for an AWB and magazine bans? The first lesson is something we all could have predicted and something that makes the usual frantic rounds on tv/radio/print. The second lesson is what's important but seems to get less attention. The first lesson tells me that many people are fearful, and some are pretty ignorant (cool story bro) and the other tells me the government will be pushing for more, overly restrictive gun control laws. Personally, I can care less about the finger wagging at people who were irrational over Obama's possible EOs. In the big scheme of things with what's going on regarding gun control, it's not the story that matters. I see it much more as leftwing and/or gun control nuts attempting to shift the debate, shift the agenda, and shift attention away from the genuine issue.

 

[corwin]

when I see the effect it has on the ATF's ability to actually do its intended job, yes I do think that's alright. there are ways to wright an amendment that achieve the desired protections without causing the ATF difficulty in doing its job.

Then by all means run for office and propose such legislation when you get elected, but allowing a national gun registry isn't going to fly, and that's basically what is wanted for them to "do their jobs"...maybe if they weren't allowing and encouraging gun runners they could just catch and prosecute them

What's the lesson learned here, OP? That talk of Obama, EOs, and gun control created buckwild speculation, or that despite the fairly harmless EOs the president will be pushing for an AWB and magazine bans? The first lesson is something we all could have predicted and something that makes the usual frantic rounds on tv/radio/print. The second lesson is what's important but seems to get less attention. The first lesson tells me that many people are fearful, and some are pretty ignorant (cool story bro) and the other tells me the government will be pushing for more, overly restrictive gun control laws. Personally, I can care less about the finger wagging at people who were irrational over Obama's possible EOs. In the big scheme of things with what's going on regarding gun control, it's not the story that matters. I see it much more as leftwing and/or gun control nuts attempting to shift the debate, shift the agenda, and shift attention away from the genuine issue.

Nope, we're all just stark raving mad with paranoia and need to look the other way and keep quiet...watch the left hand but please, ignore what we're doing with our right hand, you're just being paranoid

 

[ivwshane]

The Daily Show is a joke, literally...and the ATF is far from neutered

Opinions don't mean shit when the facts are against you.

Here is a proper source:
http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/atf-obama-gun-reform-control-alcohol-tobacco-firearms

 

[Nintendesert]

There's nothing in there that comes close to the ridiculous paranoia that's been exhibited by the far right over the last week.



I can, and I have. It was stupid, irrational, and if anything hurt their standing in the ongoing debate over this subject.

So you expect people to base their reactions on 20/20 vision after the fact. It must always be nice to be a monday morning quarterback all your life.

 

[hal2kilo]

You can totally blame them for unfounded hysteria. Hell, i still remember the NRA saying that a first term Obama presidency would be disastrous for gun rights. Then when nothing happened they said it was because he was trying to fool everyone so that he could steal all your guns in his second term.

These people are paranoid lunatics.

NRA has been doing nothing but generating histeria since Obama was elected. I'm sure their deal with the manufacturers has worked out quite well for them.

 

[corwin]

Opinions don't mean shit when the facts are against you.

Here is a proper source:
http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/atf-obama-gun-reform-control-alcohol-tobacco-firearms

LOL...proper source for who? Might as well throw in a link to the bull shit spewed by the Brady camp...those "facts" are slanted, biased opinion...one of many ways of looking at things.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

So you expect people to base their reactions on 20/20 vision after the fact. It must always be nice to be a monday morning quarterback all your life.

When someone says "I'm going to announce something on Monday", it's not Monday morning quarterbacking to suggest that they actually wait until Monday to find out what it is, rather than freaking out on Sunday.

 

[corwin]

When someone says "I'm going to announce something on Monday", it's not Monday morning quarterbacking to suggest that they actually wait until Monday to find out what it is, rather than freaking out on Sunday.

Yep, I'm sure if Dick Cheney had said GW was gonna make some EO's in regards to abortion you all would have been sitting silently waiting to see what was coming

 

[monovillage]

There's nothing in there that comes close to the ridiculous paranoia that's been exhibited by the far right over the last week.



I can, and I have. It was stupid, irrational, and if anything hurt their standing in the ongoing debate over this subject.

Do you think their "paranoia or irrational" or Eskimo's "paranoid lunatics" will be enough to flag them for EO numbers 1,2,3 and 4 and possibly prevent them for legally passing a background check? or passing a background check that may be called on to investigate such accusations?

 

[corwin]

Do you think their "paranoia or irrational" or Eskimo's "paranoid lunatics" will be enough to flag them for EO numbers 1,2,3 and 4 and possibly prevent them for legally passing a background check? or passing a background check that may be called on to investigate such accusations?

Oh come on now, you know they'll end up classifying the mere desire to own a gun as a mental illness, effectively putting this whole debate to bed permanently

 

[monovillage]

LOL...proper source for who? Might as well throw in a link to the bull shit spewed by the Brady camp...those "facts" are slanted, biased opinion...one of many ways of looking at things.

Mother Jones? I have to laugh my ass off at these clowns.

 

[jackstar7]

This is a hoot, except that it is not: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/...eaves-unattended-handgun-in-student-bathroom/

Unloaded means safe, right?

 

[corwin]

This is a hoot, except that it is not: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/...eaves-unattended-handgun-in-student-bathroom/

Unloaded means safe, right?

Damn...maybe they shouldn't have picked someone who retired 5 years ago and is probably suffering from Alzheimers

 

[sigurros81]

So you expect people to base their reactions on 20/20 vision after the fact. It must always be nice to be a monday morning quarterback all your life.

You don't need 20/20 hindsight to be able to look at any situation rationally, unless you're a fucking idiot.