Mubarak to step down

[her209]

What's more funny is to watch the Bu bu Bush deflection, especially on stuff like this! :thumbsup:

And, I wouldn't really say it was knowingly being lied to. It was more like we all knew what the deal was, didn't need to go BDS'r on freaking out about it. It's a given that getting rid of Saddam was going to bring the region forward, and take long term pressure off us by extension. Only people who needed to get media ratings and/or demonize Bush no matter what - sort of like the O'Bummer bashers - needed to stick to the WMD point and only the WMD point.

And now they're scrambling because Bush is being proved right, which, makes them look pretty F'ing stupid for the past 10 years...

Chuck

What Bu bu Bush deflection? I'm not the one that brought Bush up dumbass.

 

[chucky2]

Ok?

 

[yllus]

From The Big Picture's recent series on Egypt:

Anti-government bloggers work on their laptops from Tahrir Square. Despite government attempts to shut down the Internet and limit communications, organizers have been adept at using a variety of media and electronic workarounds to coordinate the rallies. (Patrick Baz/AFP/Getty Images)

These guys worked hard for their revolution. Why not get past a pointless, unprovable debate about past American presidents and do something better with your time?

 

[nobodyknows]

Wow, did I say that? Ever? You should stop smoking the Hope and Changium and maybe think about what I'm saying, you might get it. Save your guts, you'll need them for the next few decades in the US....

Chuck

You implied it by saying Bush's strategy (democracy for the ME countries) is working. I know that's a litle over a dumb ass's head, but that's esentially what your arguing. The only proof you have is that Mubarak (our former ally) has stepped down.

Who's going to replace him? They pretty much all hate us so it's a fair bet that he will be replaced by someone not nearly as US friendly. And if democracy it spreads to other ME countries we might be in some really deep shit, but since Bush talked to God everything is A-OK..... in your mind anyway.

 

[HomerJS]

Exactly, it was tough shit. And Bush took a big bite of shit sandwhich, he didn't run an opinion poll like his predecessor, didn't listen to the people whining, he acted. And Iraq is better for it.




Bush 1 and his staff didn't have 9/11 smoking in their face. Neither did Clinton. And I'd point out to your bleeding heart that those two POTUS's policies, along with the super compassionate UN, killed an estimated 2 Million Iraqi's.

My, such a bad person Bush was to end that...sniff...

9/11? So what was the connection between 9/11 and Saddam? None. Was there convincing enough evidence to make that claim? No. Who continuously perpetrated that lie?

As for the killed Iraqis, who help put Saddam in power? Who provided him with weapons he used on his own people? Reagan, Rumsfeld, Cheney and GW Bush were involved during the times where most Iraqis were killed.

 

[piasabird]

So did Mubarak step down or did he leave at gun point? Did the military remove him at gun point?

 

[Lemon law]

So did Mubarak step down or did he leave at gun point? Did the military remove him at gun point?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe a question we may never know the answer to. But as a rule of thumb, any time a monarch or dictator loses the support of his army, they are toast.

When push came to shove, Mubarak wanted his army to shoot the protesters, and when the Egyptian army refused to do so, Murbarak tried plan B, C, D, E, and F, and when nothing stopped the protesters who demanded nothing short of his resignation, he ran out of time, plans, and cards to play.

Credit where credit is due, the Mubarak magic lasted for 30 years, and Mubarak tried everything to try to somehow hang on, and finally realized he could not hang on in a country suddenly united against him.

And now Hosni is history.

 

[spidey07]

So did Mubarak step down or did he leave at gun point? Did the military remove him at gun point?

It's being described as a military coup where the military basically told him he had to go.

 

[TareX]

So did Mubarak step down or did he leave at gun point? Did the military remove him at gun point?

Some chatter is suggesting that on Jan 30th, evening, he ordered the army tanks to crush the Tahrir square protests. Military commanders on the field were suddenly calling their leaders to verify the order which they weren't going to carry out anyway, and they all told them to ignore it. It became apparent that his reign is over.

One thing is for sure: He didn't "step down" voluntarily. He lost his legitimacy as a president, after Jan 25. The week after, he lost the army's support -and the question was how to make him leave in the most respectable way possible. Since the "wait for the elections" scenario didn't work, and the "delegate everything to the VP" didn't work as well, he really had no choice.

Today, the big news is the revealing of multi-million corruption lawsuits against minsters and the Mubaraks all over the country. The regime has fallen. All the barking state newspaper journalists are suddenly 100% anti-regime. It's so funny, it's almost unreal.

These entire 18 days are surreal. This is the most dramatic nation overhaul witnessed in modern human history... I am still in disbelief.

 

[manimal]

Some chatter is suggesting that on Jan 30th, evening, he ordered the army tanks to crush the Tahrir square protests. Military commanders on the field were suddenly calling their leaders to verify the order which they weren't going to carry out anyway, and they all told them to ignore it. It became apparent that his reign is over.

One thing is for sure: He didn't "step down" voluntarily. He lost his legitimacy as a president, after Jan 25. The week after, he lost the army's support -and the question was how to make him leave in the most respectable way possible. Since the "wait for the elections" scenario didn't work, and the "delegate everything to the VP" didn't work as well, he really had no choice.

Today, the big news is the revealing of multi-million corruption lawsuits against minsters and the Mubaraks all over the country. The regime has fallen. All the barking state newspaper journalists are suddenly 100% anti-regime. It's so funny, it's almost unreal.

These entire 18 days are surreal. This is the most dramatic nation overhaul witnessed in modern human history... I am still in disbelief.

While there was some bloodshed the fact that it happened largely peacefully gives me great hope for the future.

I do consider something like this a sea change event....Normally I would say black swan but that word has become too en vogue....


To paraphrase Cornell West I am not optimistic but I am hopeful.

 

[Imp]

Facebook has been feeding this revolution for months, and months. Unlike independent newspapers, Facebook was unrestrained. Clips of Mubaraks failures have been circulating FB for many, many months. Clips of families of bloggers beaten to death have been circulating through FB for many, many months too. People see what their friends have to say, comment on them, and share it. People read about how the security forces deal with demonstrations... also on FB.

There are at least 350,000 Egyptians who said they were "attending" the Jan 25 protests -a call which also started on FB.

I understand how it's "hip" to hate social network websites, but I give credit where credit is due. Egyptians have been suffering for years, police has been brutal for years, and the regime has bee failing for decades as well. The only real new player on the scene was FB.

"The sound of freedom" - click "cc" for English subtitles...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgw_zfLLvh8

Summary of the revolution's 18 days in 3 minutes (English):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbeDKzT71Y4

Facebook was a medium of communication, just like the internet, the cell phone, writing, 100,000 people chanting in the streets. It played its role, but western media and Mr. Google Exec - Egypt branch have taken the opportunity to plug Facebook. This is where I cry bullshit.

Why not emphasize the actual message: "families of bloggers beaten to death", "how the security forces deal with demonstration", the riots in Tunisia, the 300+ dead Egyptian protestors, and the 30+ years the elites exploited the poor?

Nice essays on the topic:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/10/04/101004fa_fact_gladwell
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2011/02/does-egypt-need-twitter.html

Sorry for linking a blog site, but this has it pretty well summed up:
http://bigsole.blogspot.com/2011/02/facebook-alone-did-not-free-egypt.html