Mubarak to step down

[manimal]

I'm impressed by how gallant and peaceful this revolution was. At its worse it was duel between camel and horse jousting. Thats just classy. As for America's involvement, yeah we did play a role. I promise you that if McCain was president he would have backed up Mubarak to the very end resulting in abhorrent violence.

I agree with most of what you said. Mcain on the other hand would probably played this about the same as Obama did. While he may have been a bit more supportive verbally early on when the military came to the pentagon and had 24 hour contact with the leadership of the Egyptian military the end outcome would have been the same. The Us reaction thus far has been very influenced by the military since they remained neutral publically and showed much restraint during the early days..


I really dont think Mcain would have played this very differently.

 

[ericlp]

The media is so stupid with this whole thing (And Obama as well for that matter). There must be change! Change to what? We don't know! But there must be change! Its the will of the people! What is there will, what do they want? Democracy? We don't know! But there must be change and the people must be heard! What are the people saying? We don't know! Lots of things! We're not sure what they want but they must get it and NOW!

Of course there will be a change. Maybe Egypt will wake up and stop being our lap dog. Then maybe Israel will thing TWICE about doing something stupid.

Yeah, change we can believe in.

 

[ericlp]

Right, right. I forgot. They are totally a non-violent secular organization! How silly of me.

Who gives a shit let em run their own country. Israel sucks...

 

[her209]

You are such a Bush apologist it isn't even funny. The American boys and girls who gave their lives were doing so to protect us, you know, Americans. Not to give democracy to Iraq. Most of them were National Guard, do you think they joined the National Guard to risk their lives setting up democracies in other countries?? Geessssshh!!!

Troting out the excuses you have like they mean anything just shows what a kool-aid drinker you are.

Its always funny to watch the Bush apologists spin their wheels when it comes to reasons why we went into Iraq though I have to admit the whole admission of knowingly being lied to is a new one on this forum.

 

[bfdd]

We went to Iraq because of bad intel and W's need to avenge his daddy. Everyone knows this.

 

[chucky2]

Its always funny to watch the Bush apologists spin their wheels when it comes to reasons why we went into Iraq though I have to admit the whole admission of knowingly being lied to is a new one on this forum.

What's more funny is to watch the Bu bu Bush deflection, especially on stuff like this! :thumbsup:

And, I wouldn't really say it was knowingly being lied to. It was more like we all knew what the deal was, didn't need to go BDS'r on freaking out about it. It's a given that getting rid of Saddam was going to bring the region forward, and take long term pressure off us by extension. Only people who needed to get media ratings and/or demonize Bush no matter what - sort of like the O'Bummer bashers - needed to stick to the WMD point and only the WMD point.

And now they're scrambling because Bush is being proved right, which, makes them look pretty F'ing stupid for the past 10 years...

Chuck

 

[sandorski]

lol@ Bush apologists.

 

[sandorski]

Congrats Egypt. Take some time before coming up with a Constitution/Government structure, just so that you can get it right. You'll end up with it for a long time and poor decisions ultimately might fail to get you what you Want/Need.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Of course there will be a change. Maybe Egypt will wake up and stop being our lap dog. Then maybe Israel will thing TWICE about doing something stupid.

Yeah, change we can believe in.

You are not making any sense at all!! Which is your usual SOP!
I seriously doubt Israel is or was or will be planning to go to war over this....
So calm your britches down and chill.
There is nothing wrong with any middle eastern country being our friend is there?
or are you just anti United States and anti - Israel????

 

[Fear No Evil]

Of course there will be a change. Maybe Egypt will wake up and stop being our lap dog. Then maybe Israel will thing TWICE about doing something stupid.

Yeah, change we can believe in.

Its the JOOS!! THOSE EVIL JOOS!!!

 

[TareX]

Congrats Egypt. Take some time before coming up with a Constitution/Government structure, just so that you can get it right. You'll end up with it for a long time and poor decisions ultimately might fail to get you what you Want/Need.

True. That's what people are talking about now, taking it easy, now that the regime's symbol has fallen.... But the thing is. constitutional amendments have already been proposed for a couple of years so it's not like people are pressured to come up with a brand new one on the spot.

 

[ericlp]

You are not making any sense at all!! Which is your usual SOP!
I seriously doubt Israel is or was or will be planning to go to war over this....
So calm your britches down and chill.
There is nothing wrong with any middle eastern country being our friend is there?
or are you just anti United States and anti - Israel????

WTF are you talking about? Do you even know why we pour billions of dollars into Egypt every year? What? Huh? Were you born yesterday?

Israel going to war with Egypt? Hahaha, Egypt would probably take out half the country. Nice try troll...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_Air_Force

wow, look at all that american hardware...

 

[Karl Agathon]

The Samson Option

 

[sunzt]

I would assume that a military that has been funded by $1.3 Billion annually by the US would be more inclined to pursue friendly relations with the US.

 

[Steeplerot]

You have no clue do you??
Until now your Muslim brotherhood brother TareX came off as if he was living in Egypt!
Several times he made the claim that he was living right across from the presidential palace watching this whole debacle unfold........

Now he admits that he is not living in Egypt ancd quite possibly has no family in Egypt.......facepalm el mundo!!

very interesting wouldn`t you say? I have been in Egypt many times....wouldn`t want to live in Egypt!!

You really make it hard to like/defend Israel's government, I hope you know that. You obviously are a person very concerned about it's image.

 

[Steeplerot]

And now they're scrambling because Bush is being proved right, which, makes them look pretty F'ing stupid for the past 10 years...

Do you guys ever..like stick your heads up out of limbaughs ass for a breath? Ever? You really are that utterly clueless where you think that talk radio soap opera/pro wrestling drama stuff they say is actually real or makes any difference to what people care about?


Bush was right?...we know you guys have been wishing this, not going to happen. Sorry, he was still a crap president, horrible businessperson, failure as a soldier, and a all around entitled spoiled rich brat who shouldn't have been let close to the keys of the family car much less the government and proved it with his presidency. The best hope America had in the white house for 8 years was a freaking pretzel. And he even found a way to screw that up too.

Give it 10 years or so for Foxnews and RW media to even think about polishing that turd, still too early. Besides, the bullshitters on the radio are backed up rewriting Reagans legacy already to spin him into a half-ass president. And they still have not been able to fool that many. You sir have chosen a very tough steep road with a very large dungheap waiting at the summit, is it really worth it?

 

[Muse]

It's the first good news I remember hearing out of the Mideast, a region that's been virtually uniformly depressing for many decades with little prospect for improvement. The uprising in Iran fizzled. What's gone on in Egypt the last 18 days is phenomenal. It gives me hope that the Mideast will finally wake up, that a great era is dawning now.

 

[Imp]

Yay, Egypt.

Now, can people stop saying "Thank Facebook and Twitter. Without you, our revolution could not have been possible".

I've been hearing this from "journalists" and other younger people on TV the past weeks, and want to throw up. Facebook may have helped get the message out, but it was the hundreds of thousands of fed up people who got out on the street, overpowered police the police, sacked government buildings, and got shot at who did the work.

I heard this on TV earlier: "Oh, I want to meet Mark Zuckerberg so I can thank and kiss him". F*ck off.

 

[nobodyknows]

What's more funny is to watch the Bu bu Bush deflection, especially on stuff like this! :thumbsup:

And, I wouldn't really say it was knowingly being lied to. It was more like we all knew what the deal was, didn't need to go BDS'r on freaking out about it. It's a given that getting rid of Saddam was going to bring the region forward, and take long term pressure off us by extension. Only people who needed to get media ratings and/or demonize Bush no matter what - sort of like the O'Bummer bashers - needed to stick to the WMD point and only the WMD point.

And now they're scrambling because Bush is being proved right, which, makes them look pretty F'ing stupid for the past 10 years...

Chuck

So getting Mubarak to step down in Egypt was part of Bush's "master plan". Seriously, stop it, I can't take much more. My guts hurt from laughing at you so much.

 

[Pocatello]

If this was happening in Syria or Iran, the military would had ruthlessly stepped in and crushed the revolution, like last year in Iran. The close ties between the U.S military and the Egyptian military is an important factor in this, relatively, peaceful revolution.

 

[TareX]

Yay, Egypt.

Now, can people stop saying "Thank Facebook and Twitter. Without you, our revolution could not have been possible".

I've been hearing this from "journalists" and other younger people on TV the past weeks, and want to throw up. Facebook may have helped get the message out, but it was the hundreds of thousands of fed up people who got out on the street, overpowered police the police, sacked government buildings, and got shot at who did the work.

I heard this on TV earlier: "Oh, I want to meet Mark Zuckerberg so I can thank and kiss him". F*ck off.

Facebook has been feeding this revolution for months, and months. Unlike independent newspapers, Facebook was unrestrained. Clips of Mubaraks failures have been circulating FB for many, many months. Clips of families of bloggers beaten to death have been circulating through FB for many, many months too. People see what their friends have to say, comment on them, and share it. People read about how the security forces deal with demonstrations... also on FB.

There are at least 350,000 Egyptians who said they were "attending" the Jan 25 protests -a call which also started on FB.

I understand how it's "hip" to hate social network websites, but I give credit where credit is due. Egyptians have been suffering for years, police has been brutal for years, and the regime has bee failing for decades as well. The only real new player on the scene was FB.

"The sound of freedom" - click "cc" for English subtitles...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgw_zfLLvh8

Summary of the revolution's 18 days in 3 minutes (English):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbeDKzT71Y4

 

[chucky2]

So getting Mubarak to step down in Egypt was part of Bush's "master plan". Seriously, stop it, I can't take much more. My guts hurt from laughing at you so much.

Wow, did I say that? Ever? You should stop smoking the Hope and Changium and maybe think about what I'm saying, you might get it. Save your guts, you'll need them for the next few decades in the US....

Chuck

 

[HomerJS]

How did you expect Bush to sell to people who's priority is watching American Idol, on top of the WMD concerns, the longer term goal of removing a brutal and unpredictable dictator from a region where we get a significant amount of oil from, so as to stabilize the region and not have to worry about him or his sons any longer? On top of the even longer term goal, which he could never say on TV for fear of enraging the ME fundi's/people, of starting to push them forward socially a few hundred years?

In the 9/11 timeframe, Iraq looks to be pursuing WMD (which long term we know was still true), was sufficient. And more importantly, simple.

Chuck

Tough shit, that's what a leader in our system of government has to do. What you are suggesting is what the people of Egypt just liberated themselves from.

The previous Presidents had it right. Bush 1 and his staff knew it was a bad idea to go all the way into Baghdad after the Gulf War. Bill Clintons policy of containment of Saddam was sucessful.

 

[Steeplerot]

Bill Clintons policy of containment of Saddam was sucessful.

And also brutal as hell on the Iraqi people, infrastructure, and the military. You would think they would be all over this aspect of Clinton's term.

Bush's war for daddy's revenge against a smashed and defeated Iraq after Clinton's bombings and containment was a cowardly act and bungled from the start.

Bush 1 was correct as Clinton as you wrote.

I would have let the CIA take Hussein out in the 80s though before the I/I war started and put our oil interests at risk, but I guess he was Reagans/Rummy's buddy.

I think Carter *possibly* would have taken Saddam out spec op style if he won in 80, would have been his style -and a nice revenge for the failed but valiant effort in Iran. You never know.

 

[chucky2]

Tough shit, that's what a leader in our system of government has to do. What you are suggesting is what the people of Egypt just liberated themselves from.

Exactly, it was tough shit. And Bush took a big bite of shit sandwhich, he didn't run an opinion poll like his predecessor, didn't listen to the people whining, he acted. And Iraq is better for it.

The previous Presidents had it right. Bush 1 and his staff knew it was a bad idea to go all the way into Baghdad after the Gulf War. Bill Clintons policy of containment of Saddam was sucessful.

Bush 1 and his staff didn't have 9/11 smoking in their face. Neither did Clinton. And I'd point out to your bleeding heart that those two POTUS's policies, along with the super compassionate UN, killed an estimated 2 Million Iraqi's.

My, such a bad person Bush was to end that...sniff...