MSNBC-Melissa Harris-Perry says "kids belong to whole communities"

[ivwshane]

you on the left should try this openmindness. maybe then you wont fall for so much shit

If you are the example of openmindedness I think I'll pass and I'm sure thraashman would too.

 

[nextJin]

You didn't read her response did you? Not only did she give examples of how she learned but she also gave examples of what she meant.

Allow me to post that part for you;

So what she said was that communities are important and we should invest in that?

Look, I'm trying to be reasonable here. Nothing she said invalidates what I said. This is especially true with my post on commercial advertising.

 

[fskimospy]

Pretty much everything he writes is a thinly veiled attack on conservatism. He supports a flat tax - just not THAT flat tax. He supports Republicans - just not THESE Republicans that are on the ticket. He supports war against Islamic terrorists - just not the way we're fighting it. He supports religion - just not in any public place. He opposes abortion as morally wrong - but supports it being legal. Frankly I don't think he has any honest opinions except for his support of gay marriage.

One can for a time pretend to be a conservative with issues against certain conservative positions or people, but when one purports to be conservative while attacking virtually every conservative proposal and candidate, with exactly the same criticisms as the avowed liberals, it becomes abundantly clear that one is merely making a career of being a useful if dishonest tool for the left. It amuses us that you guys continue pretending that the charade is the reality long past its expiration. "See, Andrew Sullivan is a conservative and he agrees with me" may still be comforting, but it's long since stopped fooling anyone who does not wish to be fooled for their own ulterior motives.

A conservative who always agrees that the liberal is the best candidate and that the liberals are on the correct side of every issue is simply a liberal with a truth issue. I think the left is correct on many issues, but you don't find me pretending to be a leftist because on balance, I am a conservative. I could simply claim to be a liberal with principled objections to some liberals and some liberal policies, but no one can have any valid points if they are attempting to gain credibility by pretending to be on the other side except for this one little issue, over and over and over.

It is painfully obvious that you know almost nothing about this guy. He is against progressive taxation, period. He was one of the largest supporters of the Iraq war until it became obvious to everyone what a mistake it was. He is against socialized health care. He and I actually agree on very little outside of our contempt for modern Republicans, but it is hard for any sane person not to have contempt for them.

Youre just pulling the same thing with him as you do with progressives where you invent in your head positions for him to hold and then declare him bad based on your delusional interpretation of reality. I on the other hand will take the consistently held and publicly stated opinions of someone expressed over decades as their real opinion.

It really shows just how far gone you guys are when you genuinely seem to think that people are going to buy into your twisted idea of reality.

 

[nehalem256]

Not all of those things require money, a safe community doesn't, it just needs people to be aware of their surroundings (neighborhood watches for example), terrific schools and opportunities of employment don't require more money and can be done with a change of attitude.

Just because you think problems can only be solved by money doesn't mean that's how everyone else thinks. Or is that not how you think but "liberals" aren't allowed to think like that?

So wait a minute. Jobs don't require money now?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Did you read his own entry? Their reasons for labeling him 'liberal' were his support of gay rights and endorsement of Obama. That's it. You know that rejecting the Republican Party doesn't make you a liberal, right?

I think that actual limited government conservatives would view ceasing government sponsored discrimination against gays to be a conservative value. If you feel that he's a liberal, spell out the positions that you believe he holds that make him liberal. I bet you I can find far, far more positions he holds that are conservative.

EDIT: For his response to the Forbes article, read here:
http://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2009/01/forbes-definition-of-liberal/206413/

Does he sound like a liberal to you?

Eskimospy...I would like to take you seriously, but to do so would be an insult to your intelligence.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Eskimospy...I would like to take you seriously, but to do so would be an insult to your intelligence.

And I'd like to take you seriously, but doing so would be an insult to my intelligence.

I've been reading Andrew Sullivan's blog regularly for about five years. I've corresponded with him, and on several occasions have had letters published on his blog. I know his views and his history. And it's quite obvious that werepossum does not, and is just engaging in the usual "if I'm X and someone doesn't support everything I do, then they can't be X" bullshit.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

And I'd like to take you seriously, but doing so would be an insult to my intelligence.

I've been reading Andrew Sullivan's blog regularly for about five years. I've corresponded with him, and on several occasions have had letters published on his blog. I know his views and his history. And it's quite obvious that werepossum does not, and is just engaging in the usual "if I'm X and someone doesn't support everything I do, then they can't be X" bullshit.

Get real...it's a complete joke that he labels himself a conservative. He lost all credibility when he publically alleged for years that Palin had somehow faked her pregnancy in order to cover for Bristol.

This guy is king of the Trig Truthers and is an unmitigated idiot. Somehow I'm not surprised that you've been reading his blog for 5 years.

 

[nextJin]

Charles they don't think he is a conservative in the same vein they don't think Ron Paul is one. He is what I consider a Paleo conservative or Goldwater era conservative.

It's a fallback to neoconservatives vs Paleo conservatives and misidentified labeling all conservatives with the Republican party.

Andrew disagrees with some aspects of the Republican platform so automatically he is not conservative.

They are wrong and they know it.

 

[fskimospy]

Charles they don't think he is a conservative in the same vein they don't think Ron Paul is one. He is what I consider a Paleo conservative or Goldwater era conservative.

It's a fallback to neoconservatives vs Paleo conservatives and misidentified labeling all conservatives with the Republican party.

Andrew disagrees with some aspects of the Republican platform so automatically he is not conservative.

They are wrong and they know it.

It's amazing that on this board a guy who supports the flat tax, opposes socialized health care, is a fiscal hawk, endorsed Ron Paul and described John Huntsman as his ideal candidate policy wise (moreseo than Obama), etc is somehow a liberal because he thinks Sarah Palin was an idiot.

It's simply bizarre at this point.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

It's amazing that on this board a guy who supports the flat tax, opposes socialized health care, is a fiscal hawk, endorsed Ron Paul and described John Huntsman as his ideal candidate policy wise (moreseo than Obama), etc is somehow a liberal because he thinks Sarah Palin was an idiot.

It's simply bizarre at this point.

I never said he's a liberal because he thought Palin was an idiot. That is either a blatant lie or an indication that you have extremely serious reading comprehension issues. You pick.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

It's simply bizarre at this point.

It would be, were it not patently obvious that most of the right-wingers around here are just flatly stupid. I mean.. the guy asked questions about a very dubious birth story, and that makes him not a conservative? Idiocy at its finest.

Sullivan is a British ex-pat and really in the line of the traditional UK "tory". Somewhat like an "establishment conservative" in the US, but with slightly different undertones.

He's certainly far too open-minded and intelligent to be associated with the droolers that currently constitute the GOP "base".

 

[jackstar7]

I never said he's a liberal because he thought Palin was an idiot. That is either a blatant lie or an indication that you have extremely serious reading comprehension issues. You pick.

Get real...it's a complete joke that he labels himself a conservative.

Exactly, you didn't call him a liberal. You just asserted that he is not a conservative.

Now, how would you label him based on his positions?

 

[fskimospy]

I never said he's a liberal because he thought Palin was an idiot. That is either a blatant lie or an indication that you have extremely serious reading comprehension issues. You pick.

Blah blah blah. When asked repeatedly to say why you thought he wasn't a conservative you instead decided to make hilariously poorly informed blanket statements and then whine about how people are mean to Sarah Palin.

Why you didn't like the DC is pretty obvious to me.

 

[fskimospy]

It would be, were it not patently obvious that most of the right-wingers around here are just flatly stupid. I mean.. the guy asked questions about a very dubious birth story, and that makes him not a conservative? Idiocy at its finest.

Sullivan is a British ex-pat and really in the line of the traditional UK "tory". Somewhat like an "establishment conservative" in the US, but with slightly different undertones.

He's certainly far too open-minded and intelligent to be associated with the droolers that currently constitute the GOP "base".

Exactly, or call him a paleoconservative. He has a great deal in common with the politics of GHWB, only he is less interventionist (with the glaring exception of Iraq). Of course at the time GHWB was unquestionably conservative, but US conservatives have radicalized since that time and so they tend to describe 80's and 90's conservatives as somehow no longer conservative.

 

[Geosurface]

Sarah Palin was and is an idiot. So was Bush, Jr.

Ron Paul is great and would have been a really positive change for this country, helping avert the disasters ahead from a path we've been on for 50 years.

I voted Gore, Kerry, Obama - back when I was a dumbass. Last year I voted Gary Johnson, would have preferred to vote for Ron Paul.

When I was a liberal I just didn't think things through very far. It felt nice to feel like I was with the good, nice people who wanted to help the disadvantaged... now I realize helping the disadvantaged will feel good for a while, and in the end will bring the country down. At least, it will at the level we're doing it now.

I think one of the hardest lessons for a person to learn is the importance of letting others fail. They'll either come out of the experience better and stronger for it, or they'll be lost to us entirely. Which is ultimately for the best.

Weeding out of the weak and incompetent sounds really really harsh, I know... but without that process the species gets worse, and worse, and worse.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Blah blah blah. When asked repeatedly to say why you thought he wasn't a conservative you instead decided to make hilariously poorly informed blanket statements and then whine about how people are mean to Sarah Palin.

Why you didn't like the DC is pretty obvious to me.

So instead of directly responding to my post...you chose to divert. I can't say that I blame you. DC is full of people like you...perhaps you should consider posting there more often.

 

[fskimospy]

So instead of directly responding to my post...you chose to divert. I can't say that I blame you. DC is full of people like you...perhaps you should consider posting there more often.

This is rich. The guy who won't address Sullivan's actual positions and instead whines about Sarah Palin accuses other people of diverting. I directly responded to your post, asking you to explain your reasoning as to why he is not a conservative. You of course never answered, instead choosing to start whining about how people are SO MEAN to conservatives, which is your primary MO.

Shocker.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

DC is full of people like you...perhaps you should consider posting there more often.

If by that you mean "people who are rational and intelligent", then you're correct. It is full of people like him.

Meanwhile, you are whining that people are mischaracterizing your comments about Sullivan, but the only argument (to use the term loosely) you've provided so far as to why he's not a conservative is that he doesn't buy Sarah Palin's story about her last son.

So, why isn't he a conservative?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

This is rich. The guy who won't address Sullivan's actual positions and instead whines about Sarah Palin accuses other people of diverting. I directly responded to your post, asking you to explain your reasoning as to why he is not a conservative. You of course never answered, instead choosing to start whining about how people are SO MEAN to conservatives, which is your primary MO.

Shocker.

See Post #360. Were you lying or did you completely misunderstand what I said? It's a simple question that you never answered.

BTW, I don't have a problem with Sullivan being mean to Palin. I have a problem with him being a nutcase.

 

[fskimospy]

See Post #360. Were you lying or did you completely misunderstand what I said? It's a simple question that you never answered.

BTW, I don't have a problem with Sullivan being mean to Palin. I have a problem with him being a nutcase.

So why isn't he a conservative?

 

[ivwshane]

Get real...it's a complete joke that he labels himself a conservative. He lost all credibility when he publically alleged for years that Palin had somehow faked her pregnancy in order to cover for Bristol.

This guy is king of the Trig Truthers and is an unmitigated idiot. Somehow I'm not surprised that you've been reading his blog for 5 years.

Sounds like a conservative to me

 

[ivwshane]

I never said he's a liberal because he thought Palin was an idiot. That is either a blatant lie or an indication that you have extremely serious reading comprehension issues. You pick.

You said;

Get real...it's a complete joke that he labels himself a conservative. He lost all credibility when he publically alleged for years that Palin had somehow faked her pregnancy in order to cover for Bristol.

What did you mean when you said he lost credibility? Lost credibility as a conservative? That makes sense in the context of the discussion you are having.
Or did you mean he lost credibility as in trustworthiness? If so what does that have to do with him being a conservative?
So either you thought he was a conservative until he made fun of palin or you changed the direction of the discussion yet again.

Based on your MO its clear what you were trying to do.

 

[ivwshane]

So wait a minute. Jobs don't require money now?

Do jobs require government money?

 

[nehalem256]

Do jobs require government money?

You didn't build that

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

If by that you mean "people who are rational and intelligent", then you're correct. It is full of people like him.

I'm glad that DC is predominately respresented by such "rational and intelligent" people such as yourself and eskimospy...the more the merrier in my opinion.

Meanwhile, you are whining that people are mischaracterizing your comments about Sullivan, but the only argument (to use the term loosely) you've provided so far as to why he's not a conservative is that he doesn't buy Sarah Palin's story about her last son.

Eskimospy completely mischaracterized my comments and it's tough to discuss anything with him when he is being so blatantly dishonest. Apparently some "rational and intelligent" people approve of and actually condone this type of dishonesty. DC is full of people who understand and accept the finer nuances of "discussion" such as this.

So, why isn't he a conservative?

I spent about 20 minutes yesterday reading what he wrote and the man strikes me as much more liberal than conservative. The call on whether someone is "liberal" or "conservative" is highly subjective and it's really pointless to argue such things. I'm a liberal in many, many ways...but who here would perceive me as such? I'm a liberal...prove me wrong. Do you see my point?