MSNBC-Melissa Harris-Perry says "kids belong to whole communities"

[ivwshane]

So what she said was that communities are important and we should invest in that?

Look, I'm trying to be reasonable here. Nothing she said invalidates what I said. This is especially true with my post on commercial advertising.

She said communities are important and that the people in those communities have a vested interest in children. In her response she then explained how/what are some of the things people can do to help children. If that to you means "invest in communities" then so be it. To me there is a difference between investing in communities and taking a vested interest in its children.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

So why isn't he a conservative?

See Post #375. Now please answer my question.

 

[First]

I'm glad that DC is predominately respresented by such "rational and intelligent" people such as yourself and eskimospy...the more the merrier in my opinion.


Eskimospy completely mischaracterized my comments and it's tough to discuss anything with him when he is being so blatantly dishonest. Apparently some "rational and intelligent" people approve of and actually condone this type of dishonesty. DC is full of people who understand and accept the finer nuances of "discussion" such as this.

I spent about 20 minutes yesterday reading what he wrote and the man strikes me as much more liberal than conservative. The call on whether someone is "liberal" or "conservative" is highly subjective and it's really pointless to argue such things. I'm a liberal in many, many ways...but who here would perceive me as such? I'm a liberal...prove me wrong. Do you see my point?

I fail to see how it's "pointless" to argue what defines someone as conservative or liberal. In fact, why post on a Politics and News forum if you are so opposed to labeling someone as left, right or center based on their positions? That seems odd and/or lazy. It's not hard to label someone liberal if they support, say, 10 political positions most important to Americans, or conservative based on the same 10 political positions. What about such a simple process such as that is so hard to engage in?

Now Sullivan is certainly more libertarian, which shares many more socially liberal values than party conservatives, but it's tough to call him liberal overall if you read his work. Especially when one of your main arguments is that he held a nutty position about Sarah Palin who, frankly, is a joke to both sides of the political spectrum, so she isn't much of a litmus test.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

I'm glad that DC is predominately respresented by such "rational and intelligent" people such as yourself and eskimospy...the more the merrier in my opinion.

Same here. We have lots of rational and intelligent people from all political stripes.

The irrational and stupid people are welcome to stay here and wallow in their self-created mire. Incorruptible, nehalem and the like truly make this place "special".

Eskimospy completely mischaracterized my comments and it's tough to discuss anything with him when he is being so blatantly dishonest.

The only reason you gave to justify your claim that Sullivan was not a conservative was his campaign for more information about the circumstances around the birth of Palin's youngest son. So, no, he was not being blatantly dishonest; at worst, he exaggerated what you said slightly.

Meanwhile, you haven't provided any other justification for your claims.

The call on whether someone is "liberal" or "conservative" is highly subjective and it's really pointless to argue such things.

Which means that you don't know if he's a liberal or conservative, and you're too lazy to do any research to find out, so you briefly scanned his blog, jumped to a conclusion, and then proceeded to pompously tell everyone what he is and is not -- including people who have read him for years -- despite having absolutely no fucking clue what you're talking about, and thus being completely incorrect.

So, in other words, your standard MO.

I'm a liberal...prove me wrong. Do you see my point?

No, I don't. I cannot "prove" if you're a liberal or not, but I could easily find a lot of evidence suggesting that you aren't, and I doubt anyone claiming you are a liberal could find much suggesting that you are.

And you're not a public figure. Sullivan is.

With a modicum of effort, you could have easily found a lot of information laying out Sullivan's positions. You could also have found a book he authored called The Conservative Soul, and read the introduction, which makes his general political viewpoints crystal clear.

But that would have required you to, you know, actually give a shit about being fair and accurate on this topic, as opposed to deciding to engage in ignorant ranting based on a couple of blog entries. Which makes you about par for the course for right-wingers around here.

 

[jhbball]

Same here. We have lots of rational and intelligent people from all political stripes.

The irrational and stupid people are welcome to stay here and wallow in their self-created mire. Incorruptible, nehalem and the like truly make this place "special".



The only reason you gave to justify your claim that Sullivan was not a conservative was his campaign for more information about the circumstances around the birth of Palin's youngest son. So, no, he was not being blatantly dishonest; at worst, he exaggerated what you said slightly.

Meanwhile, you haven't provided any other justification for your claims.



Which means that you don't know if he's a liberal or conservative, and you're too lazy to do any research to find out, so you briefly scanned his blog, jumped to a conclusion, and then proceeded to pompously tell everyone what he is and is not -- including people who have read him for years -- despite having absolutely no fucking clue what you're talking about, and thus being completely incorrect.

So, in other words, your standard MO.



No, I don't. I cannot "prove" if you're a liberal or not, but I could easily find a lot of evidence suggesting that you aren't, and I doubt anyone claiming you are a liberal could find much suggesting that you are.

And you're not a public figure. Sullivan is.

With a modicum of effort, you could have easily found a lot of information laying out Sullivan's positions. You could also have found a book he authored called The Conservative Soul, and read the introduction, which makes his general political viewpoints crystal clear.

But that would have required you to, you know, actually give a shit about being fair and accurate on this topic, as opposed to ignorant ranting based on a couple of blog entries. Which makes you about par for the course for right-wingers around here.

TKO.

 

[fskimospy]

See Post #375. Now please answer my question.

My answer would be that you're an idiot because you are incapable of clearly communicating ideas in what I presume is your native language.

When you make a declarative sentence and then follow it up with another sentence in the same paragraph, it is not unreasonable to assume that the second statement is made in support of the first. If you didn't intend for it to be read that way you probably should have made that clear.

As for the rest of your justification:

In response to me saying Sullivan is a conservative:

Eskimospy...I would like to take you seriously, but to do so would be an insult to your intelligence.

Followed up with:

Get real...it's a complete joke that he labels himself a conservative.

Now says...:

The call on whether someone is "liberal" or "conservative" is highly subjective and it's really pointless to argue such things.

LOL. Remember though guys, DSF read a blog for 20 minutes. What a joke.

 

[nextJin]

What's disappoints me is that the majority of people on my ignore list are so called conservatives and libertarians.

Only Moonbeam has earn that space as anything else and he most definitely is not conservative. Phokus is close, but does post rational shit every now and then.

Charles, ivwshane, and eskimospy all disagree with me but they keep it civil if you actually debate things instead of rant.

But hey, I'm a paleo conservative trying to burn down the religious right of the Republican party so /shrug

 

[Charles Kozierok]

The reason this happens, nextJin, is because the right has become dominated by extremists who have decided to take over the term "conservative" and declare that it only applies to those who share their viewpoints. So traditional conservatives -- who consider these people boorish reactionaries and not actually in keeping with true conservative values -- get castigated as "RINOs" and so forth. Anyone who doesn't hate Obama and want a giant statue of Jesus planted on the White House lawn is a "liberal". The extremists, meanwhile, convince themselves that they are "center-right", and are baffled as to why they can't win elections.

 

[ivwshane]

What's disappoints me is that the majority of people on my ignore list are so called conservatives and libertarians.

Only Moonbeam has earn that space as anything else and he most definitely is not conservative. Phokus is close, but does post rational shit every now and then.

Charles, ivwshane, and eskimospy all disagree with me but they keep it civil if you actually debate things instead of rant.

But hey, I'm a paleo conservative trying to burn down the religious right of the Republican party so /shrug

Hey, I'll be honest, sometimes when responding to you I want to pull my hair out but I see you trying to be understanding and I can respect that (and I try to keep my responses in check).

 

[Charles Kozierok]

What's disappoints me is that the majority of people on my ignore list are so called conservatives and libertarians.

One more thing: this is also a pretty good explanation as to why people think the Discussion Club "leans left".

 

[Matt1970]

The reason this happens, nextJin, is because the right has become dominated by extremists who have decided to take over the term "conservative" and declare that it only applies to those who share their viewpoints. So traditional conservatives -- who consider these people boorish reactionaries and not actually in keeping with true conservative values -- get castigated as "RINOs" and so forth. Anyone who doesn't hate Obama and want a giant statue of Jesus planted on the White House lawn is a "liberal". The extremists, meanwhile, convince themselves that they are "center-right", and are baffled as to why they can't win elections.

You are right to some degree. I get called a rhino because I support gay marriage and don't think all abortion should be banned. Lets also not ignore the extremists on the left. They call anyone with anything other than extreme left views a hack that hates their country.

 

[Matt1970]

Hey, I'll be honest, sometimes when responding to you I want to pull my hair out but I see you trying to be understanding and I can respect that (and I try to keep my responses in check).

You got to take a step back when you get to that point. It's just politics.

 

[jackstar7]

I spent about 20 minutes yesterday reading what he wrote and the man strikes me as much more liberal than conservative. The call on whether someone is "liberal" or "conservative" is highly subjective and it's really pointless to argue such things. I'm a liberal in many, many ways...but who here would perceive me as such? I'm a liberal...prove me wrong. Do you see my point?

So your point is that labels don't matter... but you wanted to make sure it was clear that Sullivan IS NOT a conservative by your standards.

 

[ivwshane]

You got to take a step back when you get to that point. It's just politics.

That's true!

 

[jackstar7]

You are right to some degree. I get called a rhino because I support gay marriage and don't think all abortion should be banned. Lets also not ignore the extremists on the left. They call anyone with anything other than extreme left views a hack that hates their country.

But who the fuck cares what extremist liberals say... they have no power.

The extreme right on the other hand...

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

My answer would be that you're an idiot because you are incapable of clearly communicating ideas in what I presume is your native language.

Let me make my point real simple for you to understand in what I presume is your native language.

It's amazing that on this board a guy who supports the flat tax, opposes socialized health care, is a fiscal hawk, endorsed Ron Paul and described John Huntsman as his ideal candidate policy wise (moreseo than Obama), etc is somehow a liberal because he thinks Sarah Palin was an idiot.
It's simply bizarre at this point.

You indicated that I said Sullivan was a liberal because he thought Palin was an idiot. I never said this....and you've got some serious reading comprehension issues if you think I did.

 

[jackstar7]

Let me make my point real simple for you to understand in what I presume is your native language.

You indicated that I said Sullivan was a liberal because he thought Palin was an idiot. I never said this....and you've got some serious reading comprehension issues if you think I did.

Holy crap... cybr was your alt all this time?!

 

[waggy]

Typical righty mentality when proven wrong change the subject. .

I have noticed that too.

lol

 

[Charles Kozierok]

You indicated that I said Sullivan was a liberal because he thought Palin was an idiot.

No, you just said he wasn't a conservative because of what he said about Palin, and have now responded several more times whining like a little girl while refusing to provide any reasonable justification for why you say he's not a conservative, and simultaneously claiming that it's "highly subjective and really pointless to argue such things".

 

[Incorruptible]

Same here. We have lots of rational and intelligent people from all political stripes.

The irrational and stupid people are welcome to stay here and wallow in their self-created mire. Incorruptible, nehalem and the like truly make this place "special".



The only reason you gave to justify your claim that Sullivan was not a conservative was his campaign for more information about the circumstances around the birth of Palin's youngest son. So, no, he was not being blatantly dishonest; at worst, he exaggerated what you said slightly.

Meanwhile, you haven't provided any other justification for your claims.



Which means that you don't know if he's a liberal or conservative, and you're too lazy to do any research to find out, so you briefly scanned his blog, jumped to a conclusion, and then proceeded to pompously tell everyone what he is and is not -- including people who have read him for years -- despite having absolutely no fucking clue what you're talking about, and thus being completely incorrect.

So, in other words, your standard MO.



No, I don't. I cannot "prove" if you're a liberal or not, but I could easily find a lot of evidence suggesting that you aren't, and I doubt anyone claiming you are a liberal could find much suggesting that you are.

And you're not a public figure. Sullivan is.

With a modicum of effort, you could have easily found a lot of information laying out Sullivan's positions. You could also have found a book he authored called The Conservative Soul, and read the introduction, which makes his general political viewpoints crystal clear.

But that would have required you to, you know, actually give a shit about being fair and accurate on this topic, as opposed to deciding to engage in ignorant ranting based on a couple of blog entries. Which makes you about par for the course for right-wingers around here.

What is your problem with me? I am a smart and educated person who is very passionate about liberty. I have a big problem with big government and its supporters so thats why I always will attack them at will.

If you have ever suffered from big government then you would understand why I call out big government and its supporters.

It's funny that you dont call out the left but you call out me. Why the double standards?

If you ever met me in real life you would see that I am a good person. I debate my views based on the Constitution. I have debated liberals and neo-Conservatives and was able to convince them to the Constitutional/Libertarian/Conservative point of view.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Same here. We have lots of rational and intelligent people from all political stripes.

That's nice....you should be very proud of what you've accomplished there.

The irrational and stupid people are welcome to stay here and wallow in their self-created mire.

Thank you for being candid as to why you've been posting so much in this forum lately.

The only reason you gave to justify your claim that Sullivan was not a conservative was his campaign for more information about the circumstances around the birth of Palin's youngest son. So, no, he was not being blatantly dishonest; at worst, he exaggerated what you said slightly.

Meanwhile, you haven't provided any other justification for your claims.

Forbes voted him #19 on their Top 25 list of the most influential Liberals in the U.S....I'm sure you think they have no justification as well. Everybody seems to misunderstand poor Andrew Sullivan. BTW...have you heard that the Pope is actually gay! The guy is a fucking train wreck with zero credibility in my opinion.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/andr...gay-relationship-with-one-of-his-secretaries/

Tell me something...what's the odds of an Obama birther being a "liberal"? Think about it.

Which means that you don't know if he's a liberal or conservative, and you're too lazy to do any research to find out, so you briefly scanned his blog, jumped to a conclusion, and then proceeded to pompously tell everyone what he is and is not -- including people who have read him for years -- despite having absolutely no fucking clue what you're talking about, and thus being completely incorrect.

Look...if you want to believe he's a conservative...go for it. I have a different opinion that you, an opinion that's shared by Forbes and many conservatives as well. If anyone is being pompous here...it's you.

"Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley, Jr."

So, in other words, your standard MO.

What MO is that? Lying and then running away when confronted? Oh wait...that's you.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=34865758&postcount=262

No, I don't. I cannot "prove" if you're a liberal or not, but I could easily find a lot of evidence suggesting that you aren't, and I doubt anyone claiming you are a liberal could find much suggesting that you are.

And you're not a public figure. Sullivan is.

With a modicum of effort, you could have easily found a lot of information laying out Sullivan's positions. You could also have found a book he authored called The Conservative Soul, and read the introduction, which makes his general political viewpoints crystal clear.

With a modicum of effort, you could have easily found a lot of information regarding my assertion that I'm a liberal. You could have used the search tool in this forum to find a lot of evidence which supports or contradicts my assertion. However, you've apparently made no effort to do so and seem to be are quite comfortable holding me to a standard that's well above what you're willing to apply to yourself. I believe there's a word for that.

But that would have required you to, you know, actually give a shit about being fair and accurate on this topic, as opposed to deciding to engage in ignorant ranting based on a couple of blog entries. Which makes you about par for the course for right-wingers around here.

I think it's highly ironic that you criticize me for being not fair and accurate in this thread when you've been so blatantly dishonest here (see Post #262) and then try to pass off Eskimospy's lie as a slight exaggeration. But that would have required you to, you know, actually give a shit about being fair and accurate.

Your arrogance and condescending attitude fits you like a glove....but I'm sure that you have very good reason for being such a proud little man.

 

[fskimospy]

Uh oh, everyone's picking on poor Doc Savage Fan again.

 

[monovillage]

TKO.

Which is why no rational conservative/Republican will ever be a regular poster in the DNC.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Thank you for being candid as to why you've been posting so much in this forum lately.

I post in both forums. Most of the right-wingers here are afraid to post in the DC because they know their poor reasoning skills simply won't hold up. They justify this decision by claiming that things are stacked against them -- even though not a single disciplinary action has ever been taken against a right-leaning poster there -- because it's a lot easier than facing up to their own shortcomings.

Forbes voted him #19 on their Top 25 list of the most influential Liberals in the U.S....I'm sure you think they have no justification as well.

No, they have some justification for it, but only because they chose a rather superficial way of making their assessment.

Sullivan responded to this issue himself, so anyone who wants to can read what he has to say about it.

A large part of it is his outspoken leadership role on gay rights. But this is actually a good example of how the right increasingly has nothing to do with true conservatism, but rather has been coopted by the Christaliban.

The guy is a fucking train wreck with zero credibility in my opinion.

You have zero credibility in my opinion, and have already demonstrated a willingness to pass judgment on him having done no research into him whatsoever, so your opinion on him is of zero relevance.

Tell me something...what's the odds of an Obama birther being a "liberal"?

It's neat how you continue to throw a temper tantrum because people call you out on defining Sullivan's political views over Sarah Palin, and at the same time, continue making the same allegation over and over again. It's quite a lovely display of irrationality.

Look...if you want to believe he's a conservative...go for it. I have a different opinion that you...

Yes, the slight difference being that my opinion has been formed after reading literally thousands of blog posts and articles he's written, whereas you pulled your opinion out of your ass this morning and then ran around the net trying to find ways to justify it.

With a modicum of effort, you could have easily found a lot of information regarding my assertion that I'm a liberal.

I really don't care whether or not you're a liberal.

More to the point, I didn't come in here and declare that "it's a complete joke that DSF labels himself a liberal".

You used those words to describe Sullivan. So you are the one who should be trying to find ways to back that up.

If you want to call yourself a liberal, go ahead. You can call yourself a communist for all I care.

I think it's highly ironic that you criticize me for being not fair and accurate in this thread when you've been so blatantly dishonest here (see Post #262) and then try to pass off Eskimospy's lie as a slight exaggeration.

Sorry, dear, but I'm not required to respond to everything that you spew on the Internet. If my input is really that important to you, send me a PM and perhaps we can work out a fee arrangement.

Meanwhile, the bottom line, despite your ongoing temper tantrum, is that you claimed Sullivan was not a conservative solely based on what he said about Palin, and then tried to deny that afterwards. That's not going to change no matter how much you try to divert the discussion onto an unrelated thread.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Which is why no rational conservative/Republican will ever be a regular poster in the DNC.

There are quite a few rational conservatives and Republicans in the DC.

What we don't have are the irrational and cowardly ones, like you.

You wouldn't last five seconds in there, not because of the moderators, but because you are incapable of making rational arguments and refraining from obnoxious behavior.