Moving to a mini-PC, feels... liberating!

[dave_the_nerd]

No, he's burning like 100-150W, 24/7. But he only browses, YouTube 1080P, Twitch.tv 1080P, and Facebook.

The AMD Athlon II and Core2Duo/Quad of that era lack power-gating, like the newer CPUs have. So his idle power is very nearly the same as his load power. My Brix J1900 has plenty of GPU power for 1080P decoding, and has very good power usage, whether idle or load.

Plus, his subjective observations using my Brix J1900, he said it was about like his PC, performance-wise.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2010/12/07/amd-phenom-ii-x6-1100t-review/7

Are you really sure about that? (Athlon II X4 645 is in the chart.)

Sounds like he'd be better off if you configured his system to sleep after 15 minutes idle.

 

[VirtualLarry]

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2010/12/07/amd-phenom-ii-x6-1100t-review/7

Are you really sure about that? (Athlon II X4 645 is in the chart.)

Sounds like he'd be better off if you configured his system to sleep after 15 minutes idle.

Interesting charts. The X4 645, was measured at 84W system idle, and 255W CPU max load.

Figure that he leaves his system running 24/7, most of the time running something, and I think my estimate of 100-130W isn't too far off, really.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Interesting charts. The X4 645, was measured at 84W system idle, and 255W CPU max load.

Figure that he leaves his system running 24/7, most of the time running something, and I think my estimate of 100-130W isn't too far off, really.

What do you mean by "most of the time?" Is he really watching a youtube video for 12+ hours a day?

If not, again, simply telling his computer to go to sleep when not in use will cut that significantly.

How the hell much does electricity cost in your neighborhood? $30/month / 3kWh/day (125Wh) = $0.33/kWh, which is abnormal.

 

[VirtualLarry]

What do you mean by "most of the time?" Is he really watching a youtube video for 12+ hours a day?

Or twitch. Yeah.

If not, again, simply telling his computer to go to sleep when not in use will cut that significantly.

How the hell much does electricity cost in your neighborhood? $30/month / 3kWh/day (125Wh) = $0.33/kWh, which is abnormal.

130W x 24hr x 31 days / 1000 x $0.15 = $14.51 / mo. Hmm, must have done the math wrong the first time around.

The mini-PC at 20W 24/7 would only be $2.23 / mo though.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Or twitch. Yeah.

Does he have... a job? Friends? That's actually kinda fucked up.

130W x 24hr x 31 days / 1000 x $0.15 = $14.51 / mo. Hmm, must have done the math wrong the first time around.

Still saying sleeping his computer when he's not using it would cut that down a lot. He's gotta sleep sometimes, right?

The mini-PC at 20W 24/7 would only be $2.23 / mo though.

So break-even in ~2 years. Which is about the time he'd be due for a new system anyway.

And the Atom is still molasses-slow. Even if he hasn't noticed yet. Eventually he'll be playing some web game coded in single-threaded javascript and oh boy will he notice then.

I'd sit on it for a while. Save some pennies and get a ~$350 big-core NUC in ~2018. If power bills really are a concern, undervolting/clocking his Athlon and replacing his HDDs with a single (used? Whatcha got in the spares bin?) SSD wouldn't be a terrible short-term move for cheap. And enable sleep mode. Goddamn.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Still saying sleeping his computer when he's not using it would cut that down a lot. He's gotta sleep sometimes, right?

So break-even in ~2 years. Which is about the time he'd be due for a new system anyway.

Oh yeah, I forgot, sleep mode wouldn't be an option. He has a USB-connected MagicJack, which needs to be running at all times to receive calls.

Edit: If it weren't for that little factor, I would agree with you. When I re-formatted my Skylake G4400 OC rig, I re-installed Win7 64-bit, but I forgot to go into the Power Options and disable sleep mode. So it was sleeping after 30 minutes of inactivity. I found that I actually liked that, so then it wasn't sucking down power when I wasn't actively using it.

Unfortunately, that joy was short-lived, as mysteriously, it stopped going to sleep after inactivity.

So sleep mode is far from perfect, especially in Windows. Normally, I disable it entirely. I also found that BOINC worked pretty well with sleep mode, from what I could tell. Might depend on the project though.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I experienced exactly the same lockups with Kubuntu 15.10 ie 4.20 kernel. They are caused by a Baytrail-specific bug in more recent Linux kernels - just google "baytrail linux freeze", numerous other J1900-based mini PCs are also affected.
I didn't try the suggested "max_cstate=1" workaround, but have instead downgraded to 14.04.3 (kernel 3.19), and so far so good - no freezes. Unfortunately I cannot get the bluetooth to work with this kernel, which is an annoyance since I planned to use a bluetooth mini keyboard/touchpad combo as a remote.
I perfectly understand your frustration, but I think that one star only is a bit harsh - this is a great little machine for the money. $254 was probably an Amazon glitch - it's 138.49 as I'm writing this.

I saw this on an Amazon review comment.

I'm going to try it. But the default Ubuntu desktop SUCKS. I tried "sudo apt-get install mate-desktop", and it installed some packages, but the desktop UI didn't change. I couldn't find a desktop manager setting in the settings apps.

 

[you2]

You change your desk top when you log in (you select which one before you actually log in); there is a pull down next to your name. Well at least that is how ubuntu works.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

VirtualLarry, you might be interested in this. Just, like, in general.

http://up-shop.org

Since it uses the Pi form factor, that's... well... you can 3D print a VESA mount case for those.

 

[VirtualLarry]

VirtualLarry, you might be interested in this. Just, like, in general.

http://up-shop.org

Since it uses the Pi form factor, that's... well... you can 3D print a VESA mount case for those.

Thanks, that's kind of neat. Especially, it has gigabit ethernet, and supports Windows 8.1 and 10. I assume it's x86? It didn't seem to specify the CPU that I could see.

 

[VirtualLarry]

You change your desk top when you log in (you select which one before you actually log in); there is a pull down next to your name. Well at least that is how ubuntu works.

That's what the guide I read said, but I don't see a drop-down anywhere. Does it still appear, if you've encrypted your home directory?

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Install-Alternative-Desktop-Managers-in-Ubuntu-48586.shtml
That's the guide I used.

I did "sudo apt-get install mate-desktop". It installed some packages. But didn't prompt me what desktop environment to use.

Their KDE example says this:
"Reboot the computer and at the login prompt, select Options / Sessions and pick KDE from the list. The rest is up to you. Enjoy!"

There's no "Options" or "Sessions" at the login prompt. Just my name, and "Guest Session". No drop-down, or any sort of DE selector.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Thanks, that's kind of neat. Especially, it has gigabit ethernet, and supports Windows 8.1 and 10. I assume it's x86? It didn't seem to specify the CPU that I could see.

Yeah it's some Atom variant.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Ok, even thought the Amazon.com review said that Ubuntu 14.04.3 worked properly on this J1900 Brix unit, I still couldn't wake it from monitor sleep mode after a few hours. I assume it froze.

So, now I'm trying Linux Mint 17.3 Cinnamon 64-bit, with kernel 3.19.xx, which is supposed to be the "good" kernel series for these Brix units, according to the review in question.

So, I'm going to leave it running on this for a while.

If this freezes, then maybe I'll start unplugging USB devices.

I've got:
USB3.0 dual-drive SATA dock
LG USB DVD-RW 8x
PremierTek USB3.0 AC1200 WiFi (Realtek 8812AU, not directly supported by any mainline kernels yet, but can compile source for it)
some mice and a keyboard
A logitech webcam

I think it's pretty weird too, that I haven't found a Linux distro yet that can properly shutdown or restart these Brix units. Their BIOS must have a REALLY POOR ACPI implementation.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Edit: I wish I was able to get Linux Mint 17.3 stable on the Brix units, they worked pretty well under Linux. (Well, except for the part where they freeze up solid, LOL.)

Hmm. I had forgotten whether I had tried Mint 17.3, so I installed it again. I guess I wasn't successful the first time with it. Even though it had the 3.19.xx-series kernel.

Edit: I rebooted, and disabled "C state reporting to OS". Which, I don't know if that disables C states altogether, or what it effectively does.
Though I read that mentioned as a fix for the Linux freeze problem, although at the same time, I guess it prevents power-saving modes?

Edit: It's been a day or two, and it hasn't frozen up yet. Maybe disabling the C-states did the trick? So far so good, let's hope it continues.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Ok, even thought the Amazon.com review said that Ubuntu 14.04.3 worked properly on this J1900 Brix unit, I still couldn't wake it from monitor sleep mode after a few hours. I assume it froze.

So, now I'm trying Linux Mint 17.3 Cinnamon 64-bit, with kernel 3.19.xx, which is supposed to be the "good" kernel series for these Brix units, according to the review in question.

So, I'm going to leave it running on this for a while.

If this freezes, then maybe I'll start unplugging USB devices.

I've got:
USB3.0 dual-drive SATA dock
LG USB DVD-RW 8x
PremierTek USB3.0 AC1200 WiFi (Realtek 8812AU, not directly supported by any mainline kernels yet, but can compile source for it)
some mice and a keyboard
A logitech webcam

I think it's pretty weird too, that I haven't found a Linux distro yet that can properly shutdown or restart these Brix units. Their BIOS must have a REALLY POOR ACPI implementation.

Just out of curiosity: are they frozen or frozen frozen? Can you SSH in? (i.e., just the GUI crashed.)

Do you have a power filter?

Anyway. Do they work with Windows?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Just out of curiosity: are they frozen or frozen frozen? Can you SSH in? (i.e., just the GUI crashed.)

Do you have a power filter?

Anyway. Do they work with Windows?

Yes, they work great with Win7.

Anyways, my Acer Cloudbook running Mint 18 Mate 64-bit freezes up too, when I have it set to suspendsleep after inactivity.

 

[you2]

It is not obvious but it is an icon in the box where you type your password. It looks like a plain icon but if you click on it; you will be able to select window manager before you actually log in. On ubuntu it is top right corner of the box where you type your password; my mint system is at home but I think it is the top left corner (this is not the screen but dialog box for password). If you configured your system to not require a password on startup; you have to log out and then log back in to see the dialog. There is NO prompt when you install the package; this is when you log into the system.

That's what the guide I read said, but I don't see a drop-down anywhere. Does it still appear, if you've encrypted your home directory?

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Install-Alternative-Desktop-Managers-in-Ubuntu-48586.shtml
That's the guide I used.

I did "sudo apt-get install mate-desktop". It installed some packages. But didn't prompt me what desktop environment to use.

Their KDE example says this:
"Reboot the computer and at the login prompt, select Options / Sessions and pick KDE from the list. The rest is up to you. Enjoy!"

There's no "Options" or "Sessions" at the login prompt. Just my name, and "Guest Session". No drop-down, or any sort of DE selector.

 

[you2]

I had a similar problem when I converted a chrome box to linux (remember those). It took a long time for me to figure out the issue (well a week anyways). It turned out to be trivial but I will have to dig into my notes to find the details. Specifically there is a configuration that tells the kernel which devices to watch for wake up from sleep. i had to tell it to watch the usb device (some value you set in /sys). Hum. Here is a note I posted long ago on the topic:
--- (cut and paste of an old note I wrote) --
I'll post the fix here
if anyone else runs into the same issue. It amounts to wakeup not being
enabled in
/sys/bus/usb/devices/*/power/wakeup
-
the fix was to add udev rule:
sudo vi /etc/udev/rules.d/90-keyboardwakeup.rules


SUBSYSTEM=="usb", ATTRS{idVendor}=="046d", ATTRS{idProduct}=="c52b"
RUN+="/bin/sh -c 'echo enabled > /sys$env{DEVPATH}/../power/wakeup'"
--
(the device vendor/product have to match your device which can be
obtained vi lsusb)
-
Also this thread talks about how to fix mce which I do not use but
someone else mentioned as being a problem:

http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1968487.html
--
NOTE: Do not cut and paste; you have to figure out the actual device/vendor using lsusb.
--
Also did not the power switch not work for waking the device ? I.e, when in power saving mode (sleep) it should blink; you should be able to tap it to wake the system (though I prefer to wake with usb devices)
--

Ok, even thought the Amazon.com review said that Ubuntu 14.04.3 worked properly on this J1900 Brix unit, I still couldn't wake it from monitor sleep mode after a few hours. I assume it froze.

So, now I'm trying Linux Mint 17.3 Cinnamon 64-bit, with kernel 3.19.xx, which is supposed to be the "good" kernel series for these Brix units, according to the review in question.

So, I'm going to leave it running on this for a while.

If this freezes, then maybe I'll start unplugging USB devices.

I've got:
USB3.0 dual-drive SATA dock
LG USB DVD-RW 8x
PremierTek USB3.0 AC1200 WiFi (Realtek 8812AU, not directly supported by any mainline kernels yet, but can compile source for it)
some mice and a keyboard
A logitech webcam

I think it's pretty weird too, that I haven't found a Linux distro yet that can properly shutdown or restart these Brix units. Their BIOS must have a REALLY POOR ACPI implementation.

 

[VirtualLarry]

It is not obvious but it is an icon in the box where you type your password. It looks like a plain icon but if you click on it; you will be able to select window manager before you actually log in. On ubuntu it is top right corner of the box where you type your password; my mint system is at home but I think it is the top left corner (this is not the screen but dialog box for password). If you configured your system to not require a password on startup; you have to log out and then log back in to see the dialog. There is NO prompt when you install the package; this is when you log into the system.

I see that on my Mint 18 system, but it's nowhere to be found on Ubuntu 14.04.3.

NOTE: Do not cut and paste; you have to figure out the actual device/vendor using lsusb.
--
Also did not the power switch not work for waking the device ? I.e, when in power saving mode (sleep) it should blink; you should be able to tap it to wake the system (though I prefer to wake with usb devices)
--

No, the power switch didn't work. Thanks for the guide, though, that might help.

 

[you2]

I have it on my 14.04. It is in the top left corner of the log in box - it is a white icon.

I see that on my Mint 18 system, but it's nowhere to be found on Ubuntu 14.04.3.

 

[TeknoBug]

If it's running mdm you'll see it to the top right of the rectangle, if you're running KDE it'll say "K" or Xfce "X" MATE "M", etc.

The mini-PC at 20W 24/7 would only be $2.23 / mo though.

Yeah I left my NUC on last month for many days and it just doesn't put a dent in the power usage.

 

[you2]

btw gnome-flashback is what I use on ubuntu.

 

[HeXen]

ill always choose speed and reliability over size...

Speed and reliability of something isn't equal to size. It's all about the choice of hardware and the install.