Motorcycle questions

[Pliablemoose]

Mungla, you're partly right, the gyroscopic effects of the wheels are what make the bike stable @ speed, but, the larger the bike, the larger the wheel, the stronger the gyroscope, thus big bikes are more resistant to direction changes than smaller ones. Aerodynamics do play a lagre role, but the largest force is the wheels.

BTW, I love the 250 Ninja, they're like a rat with tennis shoes on, light, tossable, enough horsepower to make developing some serious riding skills a treat.

I was a MSF instructor for 4 years, got tired of teaching middle aged squid housewives how to ride so they could turn into a grease spot with a new bike.

 

[Woodie]

3. Answered already. BTW, BMW has made 180 degree opposed twin cylinder motorcycles since 1923. Some sportier than others.
2. 250cc should be fine, as a starter bike. Yes, you can (legally) ride it on the highway, though you'll find that smaller (lighter) bikes (in general) tend to be more affected by wind buffets and cross-winds.
1. Don't get anything over ~500cc...smaller is better while you learn. Buy a used 250 (or so), learn to ride on it, learn to drop it (OK, that lesson happens by itself!), and then trade it in for one that you like, once you've had a chance to learn how to ride. There's a reason why parents don't buy Porsche's for their kids first car--you teach them how to drive in an old Plymouth or some similar tank, which are big and slow.

Most riders (if they keep on riding) tend to go through many cycles, as they try things out, and find what they're comfortable with. IIRC, these were my bikes:
1. Honda Rebel 250 (lost vs. a deer--we both walked away, but the bike didn't)
2. Kawasaki 454 LTD (don't remember what happened to it)
3. Honda Nighthawk 650. (Awesome standard...lost vs. a car turning left)
4. BMW R650 (sold to buy the house) <==Intentionally switched to not-so-powerful bike, so ticket count & insurance would go down.
5. BMW R100RT (still in the garage.) <== bought it in CA, toured all summer, ended up keeping it.

--Woodie

 

[bUnMaNGo]

<< I was a MSF instructor for 4 years, got tired of teaching middle aged squid housewives how to ride so they could turn into a grease spot with a new bike. >>



tee-hee you said "squid"... /me giggles like a litle girl Actually, in the MSF course I took over the summer, there were about two or three middle aged squid housewives, about ten 17-22 year old guys (like me), and a few old guys who have already been riding for a while but wanted to take the class to lower their insurance. I had an insurance check done with Progressive for me (I'm 21, just got my M license a few months ago, took the MSF course, and have a clean DMV record) for a '99 CBR 600 F4 (I have a friend my age who rides one too) and they said ~$300ish for liability only for a year. My other friend who just started riding this past May has a GS500E, and he's only paying $150 for liability per year. These are both in the LA area... right now I'm looking either at an older CBR 600 (an F2 or an F3) but I can't help not wanting a '99 F4 or an R6 I was looking on cycletrader/recycler/yahoo classifieds, and found that both a newer Ninja 250 and an older CBR F2 cost about the same (near $3k), and that a newer CBR F4 costs about 5-6k. Right now I have my eye on a yellow '99 F4 or a white '93 F2... what do you guys think? Some people are saying to start out low (like some of you) and there are others that say that as long as you know what you're doing, starting out with a 600 sportbike is fine. The way I see it, spending $5k vs $3k isn't a problem- but say I spend $3k on a 250 or a 500cc bike now, then I'd probably outgrow it within 6 months, and the hassle of having to find yet another bike and sell my current bike would be a pain. I guess I'll go take a look at the forums on sb.n and see what they have to say.

 

[Way Cool Jr.]

Ok...I am 6'1", and weight about 180lbs. I will just be using it to commute to work, which is about 15 miles one way. Of that 15 miles, about 4 is on the highway. Other than that, it will be around town.

I think I will get a used bike, but still am confused on what to get. I went to cycletrader, and tried to find something, but when I don't know what kind I want, it is hard to search.

I know I want a street bike (cruiser type), one that looks kinda cool. I don't want a crotch rocket, because they don't look to comfortable, and I already have a 2000 Mustang GT, so if I want to drive fast, I will drive that.

I know I want more than 250cc, maybe about 500cc. But as for a model/brand. I have know idea what to look for that is in my price range.

 

[The Stigenator]

A 600cc bike can be used as a starter bike, AS LONG AS you RESPECT the bike and yourself. Ofcourse with most newbies they dont and have a fall.

However I will suggest if your going go with teh EX-500 (Ninja 500) or the GS500... its plenty powerful. The ones (especially beginners) who say that they will get bored after a while, shouldnt be in the motorcycling business. The idea of riding a motorcycle is to have the freedom, freedom that caged drives dont seem to understand. A low end bike of 500cc is plenty powerful to do most stuff's. I know people who have a 600cc bike and are not bored. If you want to do drag racing then yeah get the biggest and the baddest, but then your only going in a straight line, which is no problem for most beginners, when it comes to corners and stopping you can draw the line between beginners and experienced bikers.

BunManGO> Tell your friend with teh GS500 to visit this site.. www.gstwin.com its got a message board that is very helpful.

And if you still ignore the rule on buying a super sport, buy the 93F2.. nothing later... that 93F2 has a lower power than the 99 version. The power is manageble, but it will truly shock you at first.

 

[The Stigenator]

<< But as for a model/brand. I have know idea what to look for that is in my price range. >>



Look for the Suzuki Bandit 400 (that is a 400 cc bike) its a rock solid bike.. the engine is bullet proof. This is a standard not a cruiser
Also check out the Kawasaki LTD500 (its a 500cc bike, very manageable.. I liked it a lot and I would have bought it if the dealer was not such a punk).
The lower end 250cc bikes are Honda Rebel, Suzuki GZ250, Yamaha Virago.

You can get the 250cc but I am not sure how you will fit on that. Look for the Kawasaki LTD500, its an awesome bike.
For 4 miles on the highway your 250cc bike will do fine.

 

[Way Cool Jr.]

Doing some more research on the net, it looks like I am starting to change my mind. I really like what I have read about the Ninja 250. It looks like a great beginner bike.

Also, I should OK when I take it on the highway for a couple of miles. Bang for the buck, it looks like a great choice.

 

[The Stigenator]

The only thing with that bike is its light.. so when goign on teh freeway when you pass big rigs or get passed by one, make sure you let go of the accelerator so you can regain grip.. or that windblast will throw you off.

I have that problem on my 500, so techinically the weight problem isnt a big deal.

As for driving on the freeway it isnt exciting to me, plus out here all the freeways around me (most of them) have grooves that sort of grab on to the tyre.. i prefer smooth roads. I dont do much freeway riding, I prefer the stop and go riding of the streets.. freeway is easy (apart from teh speed.. dont go immediately to the freeway get used to teh street first and then go freeway). The only reason I say that is because its scary the first time you go past 50 mph.. even on teh streets.. work up to the freeway speed as you get used to the bike..

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

wait until after the class b/f you buy. You may find that one style or another is more comfortable for you.

 

[Johnlee]

Just for fun:

1980 Honda Passport (50cc scooter, froze my @ss off going to work in the early mornings)
1981 Honda CM400T (Thought I was James Dean on that bike when going to college. hehe)
1990 Suzuki Katana (Stolen after 9 days)
1991 Suzuki GSXR1100 (great bike, too heavy, stolen after 9 months)
1980 Suzuki GS1000 (heave...ho!)
1988 Yamaha 750something (Drove it around Pittsburgh when living there for 8 months)
1985? Suzuki GS500 (Good bike, sold it to an illegal alien I think)
1995 Ducati 900 SS/SP (My dream bike)

future bikes? (crossing fingers):

Aprilia RS50
Sub 1990 Suzuki GSXR750/1100

 

[Damage]

Ok, Cruisers.... Here are some examples (probably not in your area, or a good deal, just examples of what is out there.)

Note, when you see 700/750 it's because for a few years the government taxed the heck out of anything over 700cc's to try and save Harley's bacon (it did, and now Harley is trademarking everything and suing everyone INCLUDING the aftermarket manufacturers and dealers that kept them alive when they couldn't make a bike worth shinola....). So the Japanese just reduced the displacement of it's 750's to 700, but the rest of the bikes are identical.


Kawasaki made a ZL 600 eliminator, witch was a "power" cruiser that used a 600 ninja engine.
Picture = http://images.traderonline.com/img/5/dealer/1313681/1484967_1.jpg
Cheaper ($1500) Price = http://www.recycler.com/asp/AdDetails.asp?iID=43906&sBAC=909&bSQ=0

Kawasaki's ltd 454 (Or later it turned into the Vulcan 500)
http://adcache.cycletrader.com/5/6/5/1601365.htm

Kawasaki's Vulcan is a good bike if you wanted to go 700/750.
http://adcache.cycletrader.com/5/0/7/1673007.htm

Kawasaki's KZ series was bulletproof, an old air cooled 2 valver that is a lot of fun
http://adcache.cycletrader.com/5/4/5/1676745.htm

Honda Magna... They changed styles later but it's still a nice v-4 bike. The old ones were, 500, 700/750, or 1100. The new ones are only 750's.
New Style = http://adcache.cycletrader.com/5/4/5/1676745.htm
Old Style = http://adcache.cycletrader.com/5/3/4/5192834.htm

Honda's Shadow is a nice little v-twin to get you around
http://adcache.cycletrader.com/5/7/7/1647877.htm

Honda's Hawk GT is more standard, but handles great and has a single sided swingarm.
http://adcache.cycletrader.com/5/1/0/17528010.htm

Suzuki Madura.. Basically Suzuki's answer to the Madura. Not a lot out there, and parts are more expensive than other brands, but you are pretty guaranteed to be unique.
http://adcache.cycletrader.com/5/0/8/17296408.htm

Suzuki's GS550 is another older bike that is rock solid and fun to ride.
http://adcache.cycletrader.com/5/9/4/14882894.htm

Yamaha's Vision is more of a standard bike, but it's pretty nice.
http://adcache.cycletrader.com/5/1/8/16038018.htm

And the Yamaha Virago's are really nice because they don't have the front downtube on the frame to all you see is engine. Really pretty.
New Style 535 = http://adcache.cycletrader.com/5/1/1/1674311.htm
Old Style 700 = http://adcache.cycletrader.com/5/2/1/1712721.htm

I hope this helps. This is not an endorsement for any shopping service (ie. Cycletrader), it's just that they have the most photos.
Damage...

 

[CTweak]

Just go ahead and get one of these ...

Me at a test session last year


Only one way to fly baby!

 

[CTweak]

No, seriously, you've gotton some good advise here. I'd stick with a 'standard' - something non-faired for those first few little parking lot type drops everyone does when they first start riding. That way there's no expensive plastic to fix. Suzuki SV-650 is a great one, if that's too much $$ then the Suzkui GS500 is great as well. Or a Bandit 400 (these are getting hard to find nowdays though)

The Ninja 250 is a good bike, but you WILL tire of it's tiny size (note I did not say lack of power, though you may wish for more than it has). At 6'1" you'll dwarf that bike. If you want the Ninja, go for the Ninja 500 - a slight step up, but one you'll be less likely to tire of as quickly.

Do the MSF course, ride what they have, usually 125s and/or 250s standards and/or cruisers.

I started on Cruisers, quickly worked over to sport bikes, then started road racing. It's definitly addictive!!

 

[Damage]

You could always go for one of these. I just hope it isn't too much for you!

 

[grimsituation]

Countersteering is the only way to quickly steer a bike at highway speed. Just shifting your weight won't cut it when a truck pulls right out in front of you, with little time to react. You must push the bar in the opposite way that you want to go and do it hard. That's why it is called countersteering. It takes practice to react without having to think about it. Weight shift also enters into good riding habits, but it won't turn you quickly enough at high speed. Also, get in the habit of wearing good gloves and boots, and leathers if you can afford them. A helmet is only required if you don't want to spend the last few years of your life drooling down your chin. Remember, its not if you will ever fall off, but when. A great sport, and tons of fun, though!

 

[Way Cool Jr.]

Thanks Damage!! That's what I was looking for. I had no idea what kind of make/model to search for in the "cruiser" style. I have a whole bunch of options now.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Damn you Damage, i thought I was out, & they suck me back in, browsing BMW's in CycleTrader now...

 

[silverpig]

BMW R1100S mmmm

I'm getting my first bike in the spring (I know, it's stupid cause they cost more then but whatever), and I'm probably going for a Yamaha r6. I really don't want to get anything smaller than a 600 cause I'm 6'3" and 185 lbs. Most people I talk to with bikes say that I'd definitely want to work up to a 1000 cc bike as soon as I can just because I'm gonna be all cramped up even on a 600 cc bike.

My buddy just got his first bike a few months ago... a Yamaha V-Star 650 classic. He got it new too, and he's doing fine with it. Too bad we live in Vancouver where it rains fall -> spring, but at least the summers are nice.

 

[silverpig]

Yamaha r6

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Silverpig, I hope you have ridden quite a lot. An r6 is not a beginner bike. The last guy I knew (earlier this year) who started on an r6, was a great guy. His family and friends miss him.

 

[The Stigenator]

silverpig.. the r6 and the vstar 650 are two totally different bikes. One produces something like 120Hp (200hp/liter) the other about 60Hp, also on weights only 400pounds the other weights around 500.. so you can guess which one is which right?
if your friend isnt having a problem its because its lower powered not because its teh same class engine ...trust me on this.. and by the way the R6 is cramped riding position.. infact most racing bikes are that.

I am assuming your a new rider.. and in that case .. I am telling you what I tell everybody else.. start under 500 cc.. nothing more for a sport bike.. a cruiser you can go upto 600/650cc.

Save your life and get a lower powered bike.. I konw the R6 looks hot, and the chick would dig it.. however chicks dont dig guys who ride in shorts, on a R6, with no experience in riding what so ever.. trust me.. in your final glory you dont want to drop the bike.

If I were you get the Ninja500R.. it will teach you a lot and still keep you happy for years to come.

By the way take the MSF course (or equivalent course in your area) .. you will realise that the puny 250cc bikes they use there is plenty to ride around. www.msf-usa.org

 

[Damage]

(Way cool) Glad I could help, I had a root canal done this morning and had time on my hands to do some web browsing this afternoon.

(Silverpig) I wouldn't recommend an R6 as a first bike either. I haven't had the privledge to ride an R6 yet, but I used to tune and ride part time on an FZR600 (I guess I am showing my age) and a GSXR750 at Willow Springs. They were great bikes, but not for a beginner.

(Anyone and Everyone...) I still recommend for a first timer to buy a 200-400 dollar beater and fix it up. It's a minimal investment, you can always trade up to something better and more like what you want later.... AFTER you have decided what you really want in a bike. You also LEARN a heck of a lot about bikes by actually having to spin a few wrenches on it. This will become invaluable later on. I knew nothing about bikes when I got my CM400t, and later on I ended up at the race track because I could ride AND tune. No, they won't be babe magnets to start, but if you have $2500 to spend and only spend $500 getting a helmet and bike, you have $2000 to put towards something much nicer. (And you will still get some trade in value for your old bike, hell, I made money on mine!)

 

[The Stigenator]

Damage: has got the right strategy.. get a beater.. not too much of a beater.. but a beater none the less.. I was fortunate to start with the GS500, but still I dont know much about ht ebike. I can do an oil change (even though so far I havent dont it.. the dealer has done it.. next one I am doing it). but I can do most other stuff on the bike.

If you guys are looking for GS500's.. there are some for sale at the GStwin message board.. www.gstwin.com

 

[Damage]

(Pliablenoose) You like the K series? You can pick up used K bikes for a great price now I saw some '89 k100rs models for under 5 grand in the recycler. The only problem with BMW's are the electronics are kinda weak. I have a buddy with an rs and he reports that quite a few people with these bikes end up with speedometers that just crap out. (A very expensive part.) Most people just hook up a bicycle speedometer to it and get along with that.

 

[silverpig]

I've ridden dirt bikes, but not much in terms of street bikes.

I've been in to a lot of stores and tested out bikes, and anything smaller than a 600 is really small for me. I'm cramped up even on the 600, and really should be looking to get up to a 900-1000 cc bike just for size and comfort reasons. I'd probably kill myself on one of those right now, but a 600 would be managable. Comfort while riding definitely has an effect on control and ridability, so getting a tiny bike that can't handle me isn't going to be any better than getting a 600... Besides, they'll only go as fast as you ride them...

I've had enough horror stories told to me about bikes already, but it's not going to change whether I get one or not. Sure, I don't want to be killed on a bike, but I also don't want to be killed on a plane, or in a car, or crossing the street, or get pnumonia this winter, or get heart disease from drinking beer etc. but I'm not going to live my life in a bubble because of what could happen if I live a little. If riders are responsible, are well trained, and don't do anything stupid, then a bike is safe. Some statistics:

Top five causes of motorcycle crashes (in BC):

careless riding
riding too fast
rider inexperience
alcohol
following too closely

Riders who have taken a professional training program that includes classroom and on-bike training have a 50 percent lower chrash rate than riders who have not.

Half the people killed in motorcycle accidents had alcohol in their blood.

The most common motorcycle accident that results in death is when the rider has been drinking, can't make a curve, runs off the road and hits something.

In two vehicle crashes, 79 percent of the motorcycles involved were impacted in the front.

Speeding is involved in 18 percent of motorcycle crashes.



So if you're responsible, take your courses, don't drink and ride, and don't race around like an idiot, you're pretty safe.