Motorcycle crash experts

[waggy]

at first i was going to argue the kid was a moron.

While i still think he is (he was going at pretty fast.) He did try to hit the brakes in one picture you can see a black skidmark

I started riding at 8 years of old and I NOW have a CBR F4 and think its pretty powerful bike. way more then any 16 yr old needs.

 

[acemcmac]

I have a real problem with everyone who says that just because the kid is 16 that he didn't deserve that bike. I know for a fact that if anyone had said to me when I was a little younger that I couln't buy my Mustang, or a comprably priced motorcycle just because of my age, irregardless of how hard I worked to earn it, I think I would be about twice as tempted just to show them up. Start judging people by begining in the mirrror.

 

[CrazyDe1]

Originally posted by: acemcmac
I have a real problem with everyone who says that just because the kid is 16 that he didn't deserve that bike. I know for a fact that if anyone had said to me when I was a little younger that I couln't buy my Mustang, or a comprably priced motorcycle just because of my age, irregardless of how hard I worked to earn it, I think I would be about twice as tempted just to show them up. Start judging people by begining in the mirrror.

I hate when people say that crap too. I've been dealing with this crap my whole life and frankly, it's a little annoying. When I went to buy a car when I was 16 the dealer told me to do it the proper way kids in back parents in front. He took a dump when I showed signed the check. When I went to buy a house everyone would always approach my parents. When I went furniture shopping they would always approach my mom and she would tell them to talk to me since I was buying it and they kept talking to her. When I went to play a round of golf they told me I had to be a resident to get the resident discount. I told them I was a resident and then they said have your parents come back with the house title to prove that you really live there. At which point I was like uumm..-I- live here.

Who is anyone to say a kid doesn't deserve a 600CC bike because he's 16? It's one thing to say a beginner doesn't. But everyone just says a 16 year old doesn't deserve it.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: acemcmac
I have a real problem with everyone who says that just because the kid is 16 that he didn't deserve that bike. I know for a fact that if anyone had said to me when I was a little younger that I couln't buy my Mustang, or a comprably priced motorcycle just because of my age, irregardless of how hard I worked to earn it, I think I would be about twice as tempted just to show them up. Start judging people by begining in the mirrror.

you can't campare a motorcycle and a mustang. the motorcycle has way faster acceleration and as others have posted poeple just do not see them. It takes more experiance to handle a Motorcycle such as this safely then it does a car.

You may hate being told what to do but i bet most experiance motorcycle riders will say that it was silly giving the kid a CBR F4 at 16.

but hey he may have been an expert rider but we don't know it.
edit: hit return to fast!

 

[CrazyDe1]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: acemcmac
I have a real problem with everyone who says that just because the kid is 16 that he didn't deserve that bike. I know for a fact that if anyone had said to me when I was a little younger that I couln't buy my Mustang, or a comprably priced motorcycle just because of my age, irregardless of how hard I worked to earn it, I think I would be about twice as tempted just to show them up. Start judging people by begining in the mirrror.

you can't campare a motorcycle and a mustang. the motorcycle has way faster acceleration and as others have posted poeple just do not see them. It takes more experiance to handle a Motorcycle such as this safely then it does a car.

You may hate being told what to do but i bet most experiance motorcycle riders will say that it was silly giving the kid a CBR F4 at 16.

but hey he may have been an expert rider but we don't know it.
edit: hit return to fast!

It's probably not smart to start on a CBRF4 to begin with regardless of age. I like how this could have happened to any inexperienced rider yet the article and everyone likes to emphasize age.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: CrazyDe1

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: acemcmac
I have a real problem with everyone who says that just because the kid is 16 that he didn't deserve that bike. I know for a fact that if anyone had said to me when I was a little younger that I couln't buy my Mustang, or a comprably priced motorcycle just because of my age, irregardless of how hard I worked to earn it, I think I would be about twice as tempted just to show them up. Start judging people by begining in the mirrror.

you can't campare a motorcycle and a mustang. the motorcycle has way faster acceleration and as others have posted poeple just do not see them. It takes more experiance to handle a Motorcycle such as this safely then it does a car.

You may hate being told what to do but i bet most experiance motorcycle riders will say that it was silly giving the kid a CBR F4 at 16.

but hey he may have been an expert rider but we don't know it.
edit: hit return to fast!

It's probably not smart to start on a CBRF4 to begin with regardless of age. I like how this could have happened to any inexperienced rider yet the article and everyone likes to emphasize age.

I always wonder why people get bigger bikes. My brother has a Honda 1800cc bike. fvcking nuts.

I ride with some guys that have 1000cc bikes etc. I don't get it. My cbr is way fast enough for me.

A smaller bike wouldnt bother me. but finding a smaller sport bike is hard

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: acemcmac
I have a real problem with everyone who says that just because the kid is 16 that he didn't deserve that bike. I know for a fact that if anyone had said to me when I was a little younger that I couln't buy my Mustang, or a comprably priced motorcycle just because of my age, irregardless of how hard I worked to earn it, I think I would be about twice as tempted just to show them up. Start judging people by begining in the mirrror.

I'm not saying the kid didn't deserve anything, I don't know how he got the F4, but if his parents bought it for him (& an adult had to do something to allow him to get the bike, you can't buy a car till your're 18, because you can't be a party to a legal contract till you're 18) it's like they took him to a whorehouse & bought him the hottest whore to pop his cherry, not a good thing, he needed the sleazy girl up the street to pop his cherry on, not Jenna Jameson...

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: acemcmac
I have a real problem with everyone who says that just because the kid is 16 that he didn't deserve that bike. I know for a fact that if anyone had said to me when I was a little younger that I couln't buy my Mustang, or a comprably priced motorcycle just because of my age, irregardless of how hard I worked to earn it, I think I would be about twice as tempted just to show them up. Start judging people by begining in the mirrror.

don't worry...you'll learn.

the only way I would give a kid that kind of bike would be if he had 5+ years of street riding experience....so if he was competant at riding at age 11, then so be it.

you have no idea how many folks under 20 have wrapped their stang around trees...it happens all the time.

 

[IamElectro]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: acemcmac
I have a real problem with everyone who says that just because the kid is 16 that he didn't deserve that bike. I know for a fact that if anyone had said to me when I was a little younger that I couln't buy my Mustang, or a comprably priced motorcycle just because of my age, irregardless of how hard I worked to earn it, I think I would be about twice as tempted just to show them up. Start judging people by begining in the mirrror.

you can't campare a motorcycle and a mustang. the motorcycle has way faster acceleration and as others have posted poeple just do not see them. It takes more experiance to handle a Motorcycle such as this safely then it does a car.

You may hate being told what to do but i bet most experiance motorcycle riders will say that it was silly giving the kid a CBR F4 at 16.

but hey he may have been an expert rider but we don't know it.
edit: hit return to fast!

In a car you are surounded by metal. And you should also consider the power to weight ratio of a bike compared to a car.

By looking at the damage to the Lincoln I would guess the bike was going quite fast over 45, look how the passenger side front tire is blown on the car. Another thing I noticed is that the Lincolns chassis appears to be twisted from the collision, notice that the weight of the bike is not causing the driverside rear not set down on the tire. I do not see any skidmarks from the bike itself.

Just a guess, but I think he lost control of the bike just short of impact. Notice the reflective markers on the road are about center of the impact in the car door I bet they played a roll in the wreck. Again just guessing but I would say he started to fishtail and lost it.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: IamElectro

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: acemcmac
I have a real problem with everyone who says that just because the kid is 16 that he didn't deserve that bike. I know for a fact that if anyone had said to me when I was a little younger that I couln't buy my Mustang, or a comprably priced motorcycle just because of my age, irregardless of how hard I worked to earn it, I think I would be about twice as tempted just to show them up. Start judging people by begining in the mirrror.

you can't campare a motorcycle and a mustang. the motorcycle has way faster acceleration and as others have posted poeple just do not see them. It takes more experiance to handle a Motorcycle such as this safely then it does a car.

You may hate being told what to do but i bet most experiance motorcycle riders will say that it was silly giving the kid a CBR F4 at 16.

but hey he may have been an expert rider but we don't know it.
edit: hit return to fast!

In a car you are surounded by metal. And you should also consider the power to weight ratio of a bike compared to a car.

By looking at the damage to the Lincoln I would guess the bike was going quite fast over 45, look how the passenger side front tire is blown on the car. Another thing I noticed is that the Lincolns chassis appears to be twisted from the collision, notice that the weight of the bike is not causing the driverside rear not set down on the tire. I do not see any skidmarks from the bike itself.

Just a guess, but I think he lost control of the bike just short of impact. Notice the reflective markers on the road are about center of the impact in the car door I bet they played a roll in the wreck. Again just guessing but I would say he started to fishtail and lost it.

actually i swear i see skid marks from the motorcycle. they look to be about 10 feet from the car.

 

[CrazyDe1]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: acemcmac
I have a real problem with everyone who says that just because the kid is 16 that he didn't deserve that bike. I know for a fact that if anyone had said to me when I was a little younger that I couln't buy my Mustang, or a comprably priced motorcycle just because of my age, irregardless of how hard I worked to earn it, I think I would be about twice as tempted just to show them up. Start judging people by begining in the mirrror.

I'm not saying the kid didn't deserve anything, I don't know how he got the F4, but if his parents bought it for him (& an adult had to do something to allow him to get the bike, you can't buy a car till your're 18, because you can't be a party to a legal contract till you're 18) it's like they took him to a whorehouse & bought him the hottest whore to pop his cherry, not a good thing, he needed the sleazy girl up the street to pop his cherry on, not Jenna Jameson...

That made me laugh for some reason...

 

[CrazyDe1]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: CrazyDe1

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: acemcmac
I have a real problem with everyone who says that just because the kid is 16 that he didn't deserve that bike. I know for a fact that if anyone had said to me when I was a little younger that I couln't buy my Mustang, or a comprably priced motorcycle just because of my age, irregardless of how hard I worked to earn it, I think I would be about twice as tempted just to show them up. Start judging people by begining in the mirrror.

you can't campare a motorcycle and a mustang. the motorcycle has way faster acceleration and as others have posted poeple just do not see them. It takes more experiance to handle a Motorcycle such as this safely then it does a car.

You may hate being told what to do but i bet most experiance motorcycle riders will say that it was silly giving the kid a CBR F4 at 16.

but hey he may have been an expert rider but we don't know it.
edit: hit return to fast!

It's probably not smart to start on a CBRF4 to begin with regardless of age. I like how this could have happened to any inexperienced rider yet the article and everyone likes to emphasize age.

I always wonder why people get bigger bikes. My brother has a Honda 1800cc bike. fvcking nuts.

I ride with some guys that have 1000cc bikes etc. I don't get it. My cbr is way fast enough for me.

A smaller bike wouldnt bother me. but finding a smaller sport bike is hard

I wanted a 600cc bike for my first bike too but ended up going with a GS500f after reading everyone's advice on this and other forums. I still want a 600 but I figure I should learn some skills before moving up. If that was me on a 600 or even on my 500 I probably wouldn't have stopped in time because nothing is reflex yet..

 

[IamElectro]

Also take notice to no damage to the front wheel of the bike I would bet he hit sideways.

 

[Amorphus]

http://www.deathracing.com/rider_down/images/122_2256_jpg.jpg

Look, lower right hand corner. Looks like a straight skid mark. Only about 7 feet long, but it seems plausible that the lady was pulling out of her driveway (at #1825) go the opposite direction that the kid was going, and pulled into the opposite lane partway, and had just started to go forward, at which point the kid, seeing her, braked, then let up and tried to swerve to the left, and then knocked the car to the current perpendicular position.

Clues - well for one, we know she came from that house on the right of that picture, because this picture, along with this picture clearly show that there are no residential buildings on the other side of the street.

Also note that in this picture, all the debris is at the rear wheel of the car, insinuating that the crash occured there, further supporting the lady-just-pulled-out-and-got-rammed-a-few-feet theory.

Here, since the bike is positioned like that, I think he tried to swerve left and almost made it, but the bike flipped up to the right upon contact with the car.

 

[IamElectro]

Originally posted by: Amorphus
http://www.deathracing.com/rider_down/images/122_2256_jpg.jpg

Look, lower right hand corner. Looks like a straight skid mark. Only about 7 feet long, but it seems plausible that the lady was pulling out of her driveway (at #1825) go the opposite direction that the kid was going, and pulled into the opposite lane partway, and had just started to go forward, at which point the kid, seeing her, braked, then let up and tried to swerve to the left, and then knocked the car to the current perpendicular position.

Clues - well for one, we know she came from that house on the right of that picture, because this picture, along with this picture clearly show that there are no residential buildings on the other side of the street.

Also note that in this picture, all the debris is at the rear wheel of the car, insinuating that the crash occured there, further supporting the lady-just-pulled-out-and-got-rammed-a-few-feet theory.

Here, since the bike is positioned like that, I think he tried to swerve left and almost made it, but the bike flipped up to the right upon contact with the car.

Nice obsevations. I would concur with you after seing the skid mark.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

He added that a week before the accident, Nick was pulled over on the bike in Napa for driving more than 100 mph in a 25 mph zone, but got off with a warning. "I would have given him a ticket," Levi Gruenhagen said.

http://www.napanews.com/templates/index.cfm?template=story_full&id=03F4B4DB-5FB2-404F-97BF-2456CED70230

 

[Bulk Beef]

Look, lower right hand corner. Looks like a straight skid mark. Only about 7 feet long, but it seems plausible that the lady was pulling out of her driveway (at #1825) go the opposite direction that the kid was going, and pulled into the opposite lane partway, and had just started to go forward, at which point the kid, seeing her, braked, then let up and tried to swerve to the left, and then knocked the car to the current perpendicular position.

Good eye on the skid mark. My guess would be that he locked up the rear and started going sideways before he hit.

Nick was pulled over on the bike in Napa for driving more than 100 mph in a 25 mph zone

This is why 16 yr olds shouldn't be starting out on 600s. Way too easy to go way too fast, and a 16 yo lacks the maturity to keep the throttle hand under control. Whether he worked hard for the money to buy it, whether he earned the bike - that really has nothing to do with it.

That's coming from a guy who, at 18, watched his license go up in a puff of smoke within six months of getting that 900 Ninja. Riding the bus for two years really, really sucked.

 

[911paramedic]

We are trained to observe a few things so we can have an idea of the mechanism of injury, so here's my professional opinion.

That kid was going very fast at the time of impact, it's a Lincoln Towncar, very heavy and well built. (EDIT: 5 star rating, 5,534 lbs.)

[*]The passenger side tire was blown from the car being pushed laterally from the impact.
[*]The frame is twisted. (look at the roof deformity, rear window blown)
[*]The front quarter panel/drivers door is pushed in ~10 inches, and that is on the post which is the most reenforced part.

Who is at fault? Kid was driving waayyyy too fast and that lady had no chance of seeing him coming if she was pulling out of that driveway with cars parked along her side of the road. You can see a minivan parked right where she needed to see down the road as she pulled out here. There is no way she could have seen that kid coming down the street on a motorcycle, the kid was probably crouched down to boot. She does have a responsibility to pull out safely, but with him traveling at that speed she never had a chance of seeing him.

P.S. If she pulled out 1/2 a second earlier she probably would have been killed too, that would have put the impact squarely in the center of her door and not on the post.

 

[Vic]

To those who say that a kid that young shouldn't have been riding that bike, well... I won't disagree. I would use that against the kid as a bias that it must be his fault either, because it was the old lady who pulled out in front of him, and if she couldn't she because of an obstruction, then more shame to her.
What I would like to point out though, is that while most of us don't believe that a 16 year-old kid should have a bike like that, the state of California disagrees. This kid was licensed by the DMV and to do so must have been certified, on his own bike, by the CHP. If you disagree with this, contact your legislator. Otherwise, posting some BS like, "A kid that young has no right to ride a bike like that... " just sounds ignorant because, under the law, he unfortunately has every right.
Text
Text

 

[RedRooster]

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
We are trained to observe a few things so we can have an idea of the mechanism of injury, so here's my professional opinion.

That kid was going very fast at the time of impact, it's a Lincoln Towncar, very heavy and well built. (EDIT: 5 star rating, 5,534 lbs.)

[*]The passenger side tire was blown from the car being pushed laterally from the impact.
[*]The frame is twisted. (look at the roof deformity, rear window blown)
[*]The front quarter panel/drivers door is pushed in ~10 inches, and that is on the post which is the most reenforced part.

Who is at fault? Kid was driving waayyyy too fast and that lady had no chance of seeing him coming if she was pulling out of that driveway with cars parked along her side of the road. You can see a minivan parked right where she needed to see down the road as she pulled out here. There is no way she could have seen that kid coming down the street on a motorcycle, the kid was probably crouched down to boot. She does have a responsibility to pull out safely, but with him traveling at that speed she never had a chance of seeing him.

P.S. If she pulled out 1/2 a second earlier she probably would have been killed too, that would have put the impact squarely in the center of her door and not on the post.

Not having the qualifications of yourself, I still came to a very similar conclusion based on the couple really bad accidents I've seen first hand. On another forum(a biased defend-motorcyclists-no-matter-what type forum), I stated my stance and was beseiged with disagreement that speed was a factor. I can't understand how people wouldn't believe he'd have to be moving really fast to do that kind of damage to a car that big.
Oh well, thanks for your input, I was hoping someone such as yourself would respond.

 

[911paramedic]

Originally posted by: Vic
To those who say that a kid that young shouldn't have been riding that bike, well... I won't disagree. I would use that against the kid as a bias that it must be his fault either, because it was the old lady who pulled out in front of him, and if she couldn't she because of an obstruction, then more shame to her.
What I would like to point out though, is that while most of us don't believe that a 16 year-old kid should have a bike like that, the state of California disagrees. This kid was licensed by the DMV and to do so must have been certified, on his own bike, by the CHP. If you disagree with this, contact your legislator. Otherwise, posting some BS like, "A kid that young has no right to ride a bike like that... " just sounds ignorant because, under the law, he unfortunately has every right.
Text
Text

The problem is the DMV cant test for good judgement and maturity. I had a motorcycle from age 16 to 20 and I can say in all honesty that I am damn lucky to be alive right now the way I rode. (racing, speeding, and helmets were not required back then to boot)

 

[Bulk Beef]

I have the right to walk around in Southeast DC at 2 am. That doesn't mean it's a prudent thing to do.

Ultimately, the only person responsible for you - is you. As a motorcyclist, you must take it upon yourself to be more vigilant than the car drivers around you. You have to be aware of every car that may violate your right of way; you have to watch that oncoming car preparing to turn left in front of you; you have to watch that car waiting to pull out of that driveway; you have to watch that car merging from the entrance ramp; you have to watch that car two lanes away that's changing lanes towards you a little too fast - not because you are legally bound to do so, but because whether or not you legally had the right way will be slim consolation to you and your family when you're dead.

 

[chrisms]

nasty wreck

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
The problem is the DMV cant test for good judgement and maturity. I had a motorcycle from age 16 to 20 and I can say in all honesty that I am damn lucky to be alive right now the way I rode. (racing, speeding, and helmets were not required back then to boot)

My point was that perhaps they should raise the driving age... or at least the minimum age to receive a motorcycle endorsement (especially over 500cc). Otherwise, these "a kid that young had to have been at fault simply because he shouldn't have been riding that bike" arguments are invalid, because society thinks that he should.
Clear?

 

[geckojohn]

That's sad... motorcycle's are super scary.