Motorcycle crash experts

[RedRooster]

Pictures
Saturday, June 12, 2004

A Napa teen died Friday morning when his brand new motorcycle plowed into a car on Lincoln Avenue, impaling the driver's side of the car.

The 16-year-old victim was identified as Napa High School student Nicholas Gruenhagen.

The driver of the Lincoln Town Car that collided with the bike, Analee Chambless of Napa, suffered serious injuries and was taken to Queen of the Valley Hospital, Sgt. John Kostelac said. Chambless lives in Napa.

"At this time, her injuries do not appear to be life threatening," Kostelac said on Friday afternoon. He added that Chambless, 69, suffered multiple lacerations on her face, wrist and upper torso.

The crash happened on Lincoln Avenue just east of Marin Street.

The impact of the crash pressed the Honda 600 F4 I motorcycle into the driver's seat and back door of the silver sedan. The bike still had the paper license plates of a new purchase on it.

Gruenhagen was thrown onto the hood of the car, where paramedics worked feverishly, administering first aid. Family members reached later in the day declined comment.

Chambless had to be removed through the passenger side of the car. As the ambulance rushed her to the emergency room, her purse and one shoe were left on the roadway next to the Town Car.

As of Friday afternoon, investigators were still trying to piece together what lead up to the fatality.

"All we know so far is that the motorcycle was eastbound on Lincoln Avenue from California Boulevard, and the driver of the sedan was leaving a business on Lincoln Avenue," Kostelac said. "We're not sure where her car was when the accident happened."

Lincoln Avenue was closed for a period as officers waited for the major traffic collision investigation team to get on scene.

"The motorcycle is still embedded into the side of the car," Kostelac said. "The team needs to take measurements before it can be removed."

The crash caused a traffic jam, and cars were re-routed around the crash scene from Lincoln Avenue to the neighboring residential streets.


I've got my opinion on what happened and whose at fault. What do you think?

 

[novon]

inexperienced youth + fast motorcycle = accident

What was he doing on a brand new F4 anyway?

 

[Kelvrick]

Embedded in the car, he was going way past what I assume are speed limits considering she just left a business. Honda64i, 16 year old? Sorry, but as in the street racing thread, I don't feel sorry for him at all.

EDIT: After looking at pictures, I take it back. I don't know what to think. That kinda damage coulda been done going like 40-45 on a 2 lane street, not that fast at all. I still think he was on a bike he couldn't handle though.

 

[Doggiedog]

Originally posted by: novon
inexperienced youth + fast motorcycle + Old person driving a Town Car = accident

What was he doing on a brand new F4 anyway?

Fixed it for you

 

[Bulk Beef]

Looks to me like the car pulled out of a driveway in front of the bike, but a 16 yo kid on an F4 is guaranteed to be going way too fast, and will not have had the experience to be looking for every potential problem, like a car pulling out in front of him.

 

[r0tt3n1]

Half-blind old eyes + old slow reflexes + "didn't see that damn small motobike" = accident

 

[zimu]

christ, they really mean "embedded"- look how the bike is positioned!!

 

[HappyPuppy]

The kid's parents should be shot for letting him have a motorcycle, especiallly one like that. I don't know who caused the accident, but a mature and experienced rider could probably have avoided or at least minimized the crash.

 

[Amorphus]

He hit a Lincoln... on Lincoln St.... tee hee...

 

[bmacd]

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
The kid's parents should be shot for letting him have a motorcycle, especiallly one like that. I don't know who caused the accident, but a mature and experienced rider could probably have avoided or at least minimized the crash.

experience has to come from SOMEWHERE...people aren't just born with "motorcycle instincts". Some accidents are unavoidable. RIP.

-=bmacd=-

 

[Amorphus]

Amorphus' analysis (i.e. - what he heard when this was discussed when it was new news)

Old lady probably did not scan properly before pulling out. Upon seeing motorcycle flying towards her, she probably jammed the brakes. Ironically, two weeks earlier, she had rear ended someone with a tahoe.

The kid probably tried to fly off the line once the traffic light went, and he doesn't know how to properly control a motorcycle, so I'm betting he probably hit the front brakes and flew headfirst into her car.

The lady died later at the hospital, btw.

 

[Amorphus]

Originally posted by: bmacd

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
The kid's parents should be shot for letting him have a motorcycle, especiallly one like that. I don't know who caused the accident, but a mature and experienced rider could probably have avoided or at least minimized the crash.

experience has to come from SOMEWHERE...people aren't just born with "motorcycle instincts". Some accidents are unavoidable. The best of luck to the down rider.

-=bmacd=-

So? You don't give a motorcycle novice a 600cc motorcycle. The down rider is dead. Read the first line of the article.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Car pulled out in front of bike,
Bike driver had time to apply both brakes
When bike struck driver's door, the rear wheel was slightly unweighter & the bike was @ a slight angle to car, flipping it up & into car.
Bike flipped up & into the back of the car
Bike rider seperated traumatically from bike, bitch slapped onto hood of car


PSA, the appropriate intervention for the rider would have been to jump over the car. & abandon the bike.

Been there, done that, it hurts I didn't jump high enough.

The rider of the bike was doing ~45mph

There should be an age restriction on MC ridership/CC's/age/experience, I know of no 16 year olds that should be allowed to ride an F4 on city streets.

The adult that signed the papers for him or allowed him to ride the bike should have their ass kicked.

 

[flxnimprtmscl]

At this time, her injuries do not appear to be life threatening," Kostelac said on Friday afternoon.

That's too bad.

I'd imagine they're both at fault. Him for probably going to fast (for his experience at least) and not riding defensively enough. Her for most likely being completely fvcking obvlivious (like most drivers) to what is going on around her. She gets all my hate and blame, though. I've spent enough time on motorcycles to know that most cagers don't have two brain cells to rub together on a good day and I'd imagine that's the case with her.

 

[bmacd]

Originally posted by: Amorphus

Originally posted by: bmacd

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
The kid's parents should be shot for letting him have a motorcycle, especiallly one like that. I don't know who caused the accident, but a mature and experienced rider could probably have avoided or at least minimized the crash.

experience has to come from SOMEWHERE...people aren't just born with "motorcycle instincts". Some accidents are unavoidable. The best of luck to the down rider.

-=bmacd=-

So? You don't give a motorcycle novice a 600cc motorcycle. The down rider is dead. Read the first line of the article.

no comment.

-=bmacd=-

 

[Bulk Beef]

PSA, the appropriate intervention for the rider would have been to jump over the car. & abandon the bike.

In Hollywood maybe.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: sward666

PSA, the appropriate intervention for the rider would have been to jump over the car. & abandon the bike.

In Hollywood maybe.

Agreed, you're usually pretty well into maximum braking when the moment to jump arrives

 

[Amorphus]

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl

At this time, her injuries do not appear to be life threatening," Kostelac said on Friday afternoon.

That's too bad.

Read my post. The woman died later, so I've heard.

 

[Amorphus]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: sward666

PSA, the appropriate intervention for the rider would have been to jump over the car. & abandon the bike.

In Hollywood maybe.

Agreed, you're usually pretty well into maximum braking when the moment to jump arrives

Plus the fact that jumping from a 45-mph motorcycle is never a good idea. He should've slid and done a lowside. Would've torn up his leg and broken lots of things, but he probably wouldn't be dead.

*edit*
I have no proof as to how fast the motorcycle was going, but I'm going to assume at least 30.

 

[flxnimprtmscl]

Originally posted by: Amorphus

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl

At this time, her injuries do not appear to be life threatening," Kostelac said on Friday afternoon.

That's too bad.

Read my post. The woman died later, so I've heard.

Yeah, you posted that after I hit reply. I saw your post later, but was too lazy to edit

 

[Vic]

The lady pulled out in front of the rider, failing to yield the right of way, and was at fault. This type of accident is one of the most common for motorcyclists, as cars turning left pulling out of driveways and cross-streets are looking for other cars, and not small motorcyclists. She probably froze (stopped) right in front of the rider when she did him too (I saw this yesterday in fact -- a driver turning left pulled out in front of another car, stopped right in front of the other car when he finally saw it, and it was only the other car's driver's incredible quick think to go behind the first car that prevented what probably would have been a terrible, tragic, and VERY preventable collision).

The rider's speed was probably not as high as most would think. It doesn't take much speed to kill. He was probably doing 30-40 mph with impact at 20-30 mph. More than enough considering it looks like he was flip-thrown on the car's windshild with a terrible force. Judging from the fact that the road is marked 4 lanes with double-yellow center line, he might not even have been breaking the speed limit. I'm pretty certain he wasn't travelling at any high rate of speed, or else there would have been a lot more damage (particularly to bike, which looks repairable).

 

[silverpig]

The lady looks to have been turning left out of the driveway of that place.

So we KNOW she pulled out in front of him and he hit her.

We DON'T know how fast he was going.

Sounds like she fvcked up and he paid for it. Some of the blame may have been on him if he was going too fast of course, and when you're a motorcyclist you have to be extra wary of stuff like that. I bet some experience and training would have helped him.

 

[Pliablemoose]

I gusssing @ ~45 because the Lincolin is pretty massive, he scrubbed off some speed by braking, but it could never be enough, given the distances/speed involved.

I hit a Grand Am with a heavier bike & did only about 50% of the damage I see to the Lincolin (a sturdier car with more mass) @ ~35mph.

I also suspect, given the speeds involved, if he'd have "laid it down" he would have ended under the car with the bike & still dead.

The reason I even mentioned the jumping option is that I read it in a magazine somewhere, to be used as a last resort & the author had successfully done it. I've seen it in some MSF literature too (not what we'd ever show the students), but it included tucking into a ball & rolling as best you could to scrub off as much kinetic energy as possible non-traumatically before coming to a stop.

 

[DAGTA]

I would guess the woman pulled out in front of him having not seen him.

However, I would also guess he was well over the speed limit. Look at the road, that is in a School Zone. Most school zones I know are 25mph or less. Had he been going 25mph or less, he probably would be alive.

 

[Doggiedog]

Originally posted by: Amorphus
Amorphus' analysis (i.e. - what he heard when this was discussed when it was new news)

Old lady probably did not scan properly before pulling out. Upon seeing motorcycle flying towards her, she probably jammed the brakes. Ironically, two weeks earlier, she had rear ended someone with a tahoe.

The kid probably tried to fly off the line once the traffic light went, and he doesn't know how to properly control a motorcycle, so I'm betting he probably hit the front brakes and flew headfirst into her car.

The lady died later at the hospital, btw.

She should have died two weeks earlier. Then she wouldn't have taken someone with her. :|