Mothers day and abortion

[fskimospy]

Except you have other options like suing through the legal system or moving.

Killing is only allowed as a last resort, such as in the case of parasitic twins.

Ahh, so murdering innocent people is still okay but you have to make sure you don't have other options first.

Anyways, why did you cut off the rest of my post? I feel it's likely that I'm not the only one who is interested in watching you try to explain the illogical.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Why would you want to repeat claims that I have already proven are wrong?

Seems kind of silly to me . . .

Of course it seems silly to you. You don't know your ass from a hole in the ground. Nothing I've said is false.

 

[tynopik]

Nothing I've said is false.

Like your made up 'absolute right to bodily integrity' that has to be 'explicitly waived'?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Then what does it mean? It seems pretty straightforward.

It is straightforward. Your mistake is to suppose the violation of the fundamental right to bodily integrity represented by pregnancy somehow a violation of "minor force". It isn't, for reasons that have been explained to you ad nauseum but
you're to stupid to grasp how utterly wrong you are.

They can draw a blood sample upon arrest for many charges that don't involve driving at all.

http://www.wmbfnews.com/story/19764592/blood-sample-to-be-required-upon-arrest-in-sc

So? Those still require warrants and due process. Search and seizure is a whole separate area of the law, and by necessity some individual rights are forfeited in the pursuit of criminals. You're clearly just flailing around at this point, throwing shit at the wall and hoping something will stick. How are you not embarrassed for yourself?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Like your made up 'absolute right to bodily integrity' that has to be 'explicitly waived'?

What's the weather like in your universe?

 

[tynopik]

So? Those still require warrants and due process.

No they don't. Cop sees you, arrests you and you get your blood drawn. No due process, no appeal.

by necessity some individual rights are forfeited in the pursuit of criminals.

Exactly

Individual rights are never absolute and always are impacted by the rights of others.

You may have a right bodily integrity, but it is limited by someone else's right to live.

If 'pursuit of criminals' is a high enough standard to waive some rights, the surely 'not getting killed' also qualifies.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

You may have a right bodily integrity, but it is limited by someone else's right to live.

No, it isn't for the reasons I repeated already twice in this thread. Nobody has the right to live at the expense of someone else's body. If they did you could compel persons to donate organs against their will.

If 'pursuit of criminals' is a high enough standard to waive some rights, the surely 'not getting killed' also qualifies.

But it does not, for reasons you've already been given. The same rights that protect a woman from being forced to have an abortion protect her right to decide to become unpregnant if she so decides.

 

[tynopik]

No, it isn't for the reasons I repeated already twice in this thread. Nobody has the right to live at the expense of someone else's body.

Simply repeating your argument doesn't make it true. We live in a society so all of our rights are limited by the rights of those around us.

If they did you could compel persons to donate organs against their will.

There is a difference between killing someone and not saving them.

But it does not, for reasons you've already been given.

You have given no reason other than "because I say so"


Another interesting aspect of self-defense, it cannot be used as a justification when the defendant starts the fight. So right off the bat, the self-defense argument can only be used in cases of rape.

 

[realibrad]

There is a difference between killing someone and not saving them.

Could you force someone to give up a Kidney or a lung?
Could you force someone to give up their heart, and force them to use a machine?

 

[tynopik]

Could you force someone to give up a Kidney or a lung?
Could you force someone to give up their heart, and force them to use a machine?

If you're trying to compare pregnancy to giving up a kidney, just stop.

 

[realibrad]

If you're trying to compare pregnancy to giving up a kidney, just stop.

No. The question was asked if you could force someone to give up their organs. Your response was that there is a difference in killing someone vs not saving them.

Mine is more complex. In my question, it does not need to kill someone. Can you force someone to give up a kidney to save someone. Could you force someone to give up a kidney to improve someones life?

In what ways can you take away the rights of someone to protect and or improve the life of others?

 

[glenn1]

No. The question was asked if you could force someone to give up their organs. Your response was that there is a difference in killing someone vs not saving them.

Mine is more complex. In my question, it does not need to kill someone. Can you force someone to give up a kidney to save someone. Could you force someone to give up a kidney to improve someones life?

In what ways can you take away the rights of someone to protect and or improve the life of others?

Shoudn't the progressives answer your last question, since that's what they're all about? Oh that's right, they'll just exclude people's money from "rights" they're entitled to.

 

[dank69]

If you're trying to compare pregnancy to giving up a kidney, just stop.

My right to life overrides your right to an extra kidney.

 

[realibrad]

Shoudn't the progressives answer your last question, since that's what they're all about? Oh that's right, they'll just exclude people's money from "rights" they're entitled to.

True, they usually will. In this case, however, we are talking about human body parts. It should still be interesting to see how anyone would answer this.

 

[tynopik]

Mine is more complex. In my question, it does not need to kill someone. Can you force someone to give up a kidney to save someone. Could you force someone to give up a kidney to improve someones life?

In what ways can you take away the rights of someone to protect and or improve the life of others?

In general you can't, but you could argue that taxes are essentially legalized stealing from you to improve the life of others.

Body parts are far more fundamental than money though and removing them causes far greater harm.

 

[realibrad]

In general you can't, but you could argue that taxes are essentially legalized stealing from you to improve the life of others.

Body parts are far more fundamental than money though and removing them causes far greater harm.

So what is your stance?

 

[tynopik]

So what is your stance?

No you should not be forced to give up a kidney

 

[realibrad]

No you should not be forced to give up a kidney

Why not?

 

[Blackjack200]

Why not?

Because we have nothing to punish you for, versus pregnant women who must be punished for opening their legs.

 

[tynopik]

Why not?

If you're trying to compare pregnancy to giving up a kidney, just stop.

 

[realibrad]

If you're trying to compare pregnancy to giving up a kidney, just stop.

I am not. But it seems pretty clear you are being defensive. I am interested to see your opinion, but if you dont want to give it, thats fine. You can do as you want.

 

[dank69]

If you're trying to compare pregnancy to giving up a kidney, just stop.

Not giving me your kidney is killing me.

 

[tynopik]

I am not. But it seems pretty clear you are being defensive. I am interested to see your opinion, but if you dont want to give it, thats fine. You can do as you want.

If you're just interested in a separate discussion about the morality of forcing organ donations, you should start a separate thread as it's not germane to this topic.

 

[tynopik]

Not giving me your kidney is killing me.

No, whatever caused you to need a kidney is killing you

 

[dank69]

No, whatever caused you to need a kidney is killing you

No, you have the power to save me. Choosing not to save me is the same as killing me.