Mother calls 911, asks if she can shoot an intruder

[irishScott]

Four hours wouldn't be enough if the guy spend all that time outside.



It's called reducio ad absurdum, exctending your argument to extreme proportions to illustrarte the absurditiy of it.

The fallacy there is that the argument is not universally absurd. If I tried to eat 100 lbs of chocolate, it would seriously impair my health. Eating the right dose of chocolate however actually has benefits.

Given the arms available to criminals, legally or not, we must have guns otherwise there is little viable defense against the guns of the criminals. If criminals had widespread access to tanks, I would correspondingly argue that the public should be allowed anti-tank mines. You scale the force to effectively counter the threat. Hell that's the foundation of the UK's "proportionate force" doctrine, we just have a more logical interpretation of it over here. In the UK you're supposed to counter a weapon with your fists (or maybe a baseball bat) and hope the cops get there quick.

 

[HAL9000]

The fallacy there is that the argument is not universally absurd. If I tried to eat 100 lbs of chocolate, it would seriously impair my health. Eating the right dose of chocolate however actually has benefits.

True but no body is arguing that you should be able to quench your hunger "by any means nessecary"

Given the arms available to criminals, legally or not, we must have guns otherwise there is little viable defense against the guns of the criminals. If criminals had widespread access to tanks, I would correspondingly argue that the public should be allowed anti-tank mines. You scale the force to effectively counter the threat. Hell that's the foundation of the UK's "proportionate force" doctrine, we just have a more logical interpretation of it over here. In the UK you're supposed to counter a weapon with your fists (or maybe a baseball bat) and hope the cops get there quick.

Proportionate force is a far more reasonable argument, rather than "any means necessary" "any means necessary" implies a rationalisation that a person should be allowed to do anything and everything to defend themselves, which is plainly not true.

 

[OutHouse]

back to the other topic of a 58 year old dude marrying a teen and knocking her up.....

 

[irishScott]

True but no body is arguing that you should be able to quench your hunger "by any means nessecary"



Proportionate force is a far more reasonable argument, rather than "any means necessary" "any means necessary" implies a rationalisation that a person should be allowed to do anything and everything to defend themselves, which is plainly not true.

Well the way I see it there's a difference between "any means necessary" and "any means possible". Guess it depends on one's definition of "necessary."

 

[HAL9000]

Well the way I see it there's a difference between "any means necessary" and "any means possible". Guess it depends on one's definition of "necessary."

True it does. Possible, I'm fine with necessary not so much, it's too subjective.

 

[corwin]

Four hours wouldn't be enough if the guy spend all that time outside.

If all that time was spent working furiously to break into the home where you are, hell yeah it is...anyone that determined isn't looking for a spot of tea

It's called reducio ad absurdum, exctending your argument to extreme proportions to illustrarte the absurditiy of it.

We already know your argument is absurd, it's ok

 

[takeru]

Wait . . . she's 18 and her late husband was 58?

let's see...
she is 18 years old this year
husband married and died at 58 years old this year
baby is 3 months old this year

so... she was knocked up when she was 17 years old...?

 

[OutHouse]

im also surprised it was a 20 min response time by the cops. that's really really bad.

 

[Anubis]

im also surprised it was a 20 min response time by the cops. that's really really bad.

she lives in a rural area im guessing.

where i grew up it was a 15-20 min drive to a gas station, the cops were even further away

 

[HAL9000]

If all that time was spent working furiously to break into the home where you are, hell yeah it is...anyone that determined isn't looking for a spot of tea

Probably not, tell me in every situation where a person spends four hours trying to enter an occupied house what is there intent? On EVERY occasion.

We already know your argument is absurd, it's ok

You're just incapable of explaining why.

 

[sourceninja]

im also surprised it was a 20 min response time by the cops. that's really really bad.

The closest police station from my house is at least a 30 minute drive. The last time I called the police their response time was around 45 minutes. We are serviced by the county and there are only a few officers.

 

[corwin]

Probably not, tell me in every situation where a person spends four hours trying to enter an occupied house what is there intent? On EVERY occasion.

Without a doubt to cause harm to the occupants, EVERY time

You're just incapable of explaining why.

It's been explained to you ad nauseum, you're just incapable of thinking outside your programming...like I said can't fix stupid

 

[HAL9000]

Without a doubt to cause harm to the occupants, EVERY time

Not to murder them every time?

It's been explained to you ad nauseum, you're just incapable of thinking outside your programming...like I said can't fix stupid

I said YOU are incapable of explaining why.

 

[corwin]

Not to murder them every time?

Yes to murder them, care to prove otherwise? This was an example here of my side, he was there to kill her plain and simple, where's yours?

I said YOU are incapable of explaining why.

I've explained it to YOU ad nauseum, you're incapable of rational thought outside your government programming, I've accpted that

 

[HAL9000]

Yes to murder them, care to prove otherwise? This was an example here of my side, he was there to kill her plain and simple, where's yours?

You want me to give examples of times when people have broken into occupied homes and not killed the occupants?

I've explained it to YOU ad nauseum, you're incapable of rational thought outside your government programming, I've accpted that

No you haven't explained it to me, you've just called me absurd and deluded over and over again without offering a rational argument for why you think I'm wrong

 

[corwin]

You want me to give examples of times when people have broken into occupied homes and not killed the occupants?

Spending excessively long periods of time breaking into an occupied home yes

No you haven't explained it to me, you've just called me absurd and deluded over and over again without offering a rational argument for why you think I'm wrong

I have however as I said before and now truly mean, I give up on you, the programming is too strong and I give up...in all likelyhood you'll live a long life, I hope you don't ever end up in a situation like this one incapable of defending yourself or others

 

[HAL9000]

Spending excessively long periods of time breaking into an occupied home yes

Righto ill get back to you

I have however as I said before and now truly mean, I give up on you, the programming is too strong and I give up...in all likelyhood you'll live a long life, I hope you don't ever end up in a situation like this one incapable of defending yourself or others

Like I said you don't have the mental capacity to rationally counter my argument, you're like a child who can't get his way screaming and shouting, all you do is hurl insults because you know you don't have the intelligence to argue

 

[corwin]

Like I said you don't have the mental capacity to rationally counter my argument, you're like a child who can't get his way screaming and shouting, all you do is hurl insults because you know you don't have the intelligence to argue

Keep telling yourself that kid

BTW, you have no argument other than saying over and over again it's not "moral" or maybe they're not going to kill you

 

[HAL9000]

Keep telling yourself that kid

Good argument, tell you what, as you stated you've already disproved my opinion, why not just quote the post? No typing required! Don't just quote "you're deluded" or "you're wrong" or "you're an idiot" etc those aren't arguments.

 

[corwin]

Good argument, tell you what, as you stated you've already disproved my opinion, why not just quote the post? No typing required! Don't just quote "you're deluded" or "you're wrong" or "you're an idiot" etc those aren't arguments

It's pretty simple really...

No...waiting 21+ minutes while someone kicks in your door and comes at you with a knife and saying they should have waited longer to shoot them is most definitely delusional

I won't edit out the last word because it's just true, and I never said you were an idiot

 

[HAL9000]

It's pretty simple really...I won't edit out the last word because it's just true, and I never said you were an idiot

All you've done is say my point is delusional you haven't made a reasoned argument

 

[corwin]

All you've done is say my point is delusional you haven't made a reasoned argument

You mean like 21+ minutes of beating down your door and then coming at you with a deadly weapon isn't more than long enough to determine the intent to kill you? You say more time was needed ala "she should have waited longer", later going so far as to say if it took them 4 hours to break in before coming at you with a deadly weapon it wouldn't be enough

Pretty sound reasoning to me.

 

[HAL9000]

You mean like 21+ minutes of beating down your door and then coming at you with a deadly weapon isn't more than long enough to determine the intent to kill you? You say more time was needed ala "she should have waited longer", later going so far as to say if it took them 4 hours to break in before coming at you with a deadly weapon it wouldn't be enough

Pretty sound reasoning to me.

All you've done is elaborate on my argument you haven't made one of your own.

 

[corwin]

All you've done is elaborate on my argument you haven't made one of your own.

Seriously? I've countered it...you say she should have waited longer (up to 4 hours by some statements) however I say 21+ minutes is more than long enough to determine intent, 21+ minutes of hearing someone expending great amounts of energy to get to you with the intent of killing you, have you ever spent 21+ minutes knowing you might be killed at any time? That's a long damn time, had she been sitting there with no protection at all hoping the police would make it before he got in it would have been an eternity ending in her death, which is your fantasy world.

And don't know how long it took them to get in but here's a story from your backyard on a home invasion that luckily ended with one of the assailants deaths, after he tried to kill a compliant home owner...the sadest part is the guy has to live with killing him, oh and he had to spend 3 DAYS IN JAIL for defending himself!!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...s-of-burglar-killed-during-home-invasion.html