Most Misquoted part of the Constitution

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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We are told, over and over again, that the Constitution says "blacks are 3/5s a person."

Here's the reality folks: It says no such thing.

Here's the actual line from Article one, Section two, Paragraph three of the US Constitution:

"Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons."

Now, it is a well known fact that there has always been free blacks in America. Not all were slaves. Therefore, this line cannot and doesn't not mean that blacks are to be considered 3/5s a person. Only non-free people, i.e., slaves and convicts. Free blacks were to be considered as whole people.

Now, I know our Founding Fathers dropped the ball on slavery, and caved to pro-slavery forces. That is not the issue here. The issue here is the myth that is so wide spread about this passage of the Constitution.
 

Dually

Golden Member
Dec 20, 2000
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However when you take into acount that the number of free black was less than 1 in 10,000 of the black population and no one but blacks could be slaves then you arrive at the trust.

Also not all founding fathers wanted slavery.

I would say the 2nd amendment is the most mis quoted though.
 

WordSmith2000

Banned
May 4, 2001
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<< I would say the 2nd amendment is the most mis quoted though. >>



What part of A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State... don't you understand?
:)
 

Siva

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2001
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Yes and we all know there are so many militas out there for the security of the freedom of the US ;)
 

Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
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<< What part of In order to establish a well-regulated militia don't you understand? >>


&quot;At the time these amendments were written and ratified, the militia was the people. And the word &quot;regulate,&quot; in 18th-century usage, meant to train or discipline.&quot;
Is that your understanding of it as well? Based on posts in other threads I suspect not.
 

bozo1

Diamond Member
May 21, 2001
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<< the militia was the people >>


You are right. At that time, the term militia was used to mean ordinary people who could be called upon as needed.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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<< Yes, they are called the US Army, and the National Gaurd. >>



Clearly not the intent of our Founding Fathers.

&quot;The Constitution preserves the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation. . . (where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.&quot;
--James Madison; The Federalist, No. 46

&quot;No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.&quot;
-- Thomas Jefferson

&quot;When the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man, who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually...I ask, who are the militia? They consist of now of the whole people, except a few public officers.&quot;
---George Mason

&quot;That the People have a right to keep and bear Arms; that a well regulated Militia, composed of the Body of the People, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe Defence of a free state.&quot;
-- Within Mason's declaration of &quot;the essential and unalienable Rights of the People

&quot;If circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their rights and those of their fellow citizens.&quot;
--Alexander Hamilton The Federalist, No. 29

&quot;The said Constitution [shall] be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms.&quot;
--Samuel Adams; Massachusetts' U.S. Constitution ratification convention, 1788

&quot;[A]rms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. . . Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.&quot;
--Thomas Paine Thoughts On Defensive War, 1775

&quot;Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.&quot;
--- Thomas Jefferson's &quot;Commonplace Book,&quot; 1774

&quot;A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves . . . and include all men capable of bearing arms. . . To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms... The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle.&quot;
--Richard Henry Lee; Additional Letters From The Federal Farmer, 1788

&quot;The militia, who are in fact the effective part of the people at large, will render many troops quite unnecessary. They will form a powerful check upon the regular troops, and will generally be sufficient to over-awe them.&quot; -- An American Citizen, Oct. 21, 1787
&quot;Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American . . . . The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.&quot;
--Tench Coxe; The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788

&quot;As the military forces which must occasionally be raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the next article (of amendment) in their right to keep and bear their private arms.&quot;
-- Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789

&quot;Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power.&quot;
--Noah Webster; An Examination of The Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, Philadelphia, 1787

In the last Supreme Court decision regarding the Second Amendment, UNITED STATES v. MILLER, 307 U.S. 174 (1939), the court stated this in their decision:

&quot;The signification attributed to the term Militia appears from the debates in the Convention, the history and legislation of Colonies and States, and the writings of approved commentators. These show plainly enough that the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense.&quot;
 

Triumph

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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good post, Amused One.

btw, the most misquoted part of the Constitution is the very first amendment: &quot;Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof&quot;

if your kids want to get together after school for bible study, THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO DO SO!

 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
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You're so RACIST!!! I can't believe that you can think that blacks aren't human beings JUST LIKE YOU!!! It's the 21st century buddy. Get with the times.
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
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Yes, they are called the US Army, and the National Gaurd.

Bah...US Army reserve...and these are totally government-regulated for the past 110 years
 

A5

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2000
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Dude, thats not what he was saying...he was just saying that people misquote that part of the Constitution a lot.
 

DannyLove

Lifer
Oct 17, 2000
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i think the biggest misquoted amendment is the right to bare arms.....oh god

danny~!
 

Tripleshot

Elite Member
Jan 29, 2000
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Have you discussed this issue with your bartender? That's the only opinion that matters if something like this bothers you. And don't be surprised if someone slaps you upside the head for bringing it up instead of the latest ball game scores or who layed who last night. This is a non starter in the intellectual community.

At least the real world intellectual communities.;)
 

Dually

Golden Member
Dec 20, 2000
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<< i think the biggest misquoted amendment is the right to bare arms.....oh god

danny~!
>>




I didn't say why or what I thought of it, just that I thought it was the most missquoted. Goven the replies from everyone that were all different I would say it is.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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<< Have you discussed this issue with your bartender? That's the only opinion that matters if something like this bothers you. And don't be surprised if someone slaps you upside the head for bringing it up instead of the latest ball game scores or who layed who last night. This is a non starter in the intellectual community.

At least the real world intellectual communities.;)
>>



Uh huh. That's why it's thrown in our faces in TV ads every Black History month. That's why it's used as an excuse by far left liberals to negate the entire Constitution. :confused:

The fabricated quote is used for propagnda, therefore it's of interest to more than a bartender.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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<< good post, Amused One.

btw, the most misquoted part of the Constitution is the very first amendment: &quot;Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof&quot;

if your kids want to get together after school for bible study, THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO DO SO!
>>



Yes, they do. However, the majority religion does not have the right to pass mandatory, or state sanctioned prayer in schools.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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One thing is for sure. It was the wealth and the consequent leasure time provided by slaves that gave the founding fathers the opportunity to develope their tremendous political sophistication and savey.
 

reitz

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Oct 11, 1999
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<< One thing is for sure. >>

I beg to differ. Perhaps you might want to study up on the subject a bit, before you enter any deeper into a debate about which you know very little. A good starting point, IMO, is &quot;The Founding Fathers&quot; which was recently aired on The History Channel and has excellent biographies of most of the major players.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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reitz, Actually I was just quoting from a recent NPR interview of a founding father's historian who made that point in great detail. I assume he has a current book on the subject to have been interviewed. You are certainly right about one thing. I was born knowing nothing about this subject and have acquired what little I know by absorbsion. However, since I don't know you I won't assume you're not different. We do know, do we not that they were slave holders and that they were rather well off. We could, with great imagination, assume that they were also born ignorant and acquired their knowledge as a function of time. We know also that it wasn't pesants that conceived the ideas or gathered them through study, from other places.
 

Dually

Golden Member
Dec 20, 2000
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<< good post, Amused One.

btw, the most misquoted part of the Constitution is the very first amendment: &quot;Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof&quot;

if your kids want to get together after school for bible study, THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO DO SO!
>>



Wrong and the 5/4 right wing supremes agree. Religion can't be practiced in a manner which forces other kids at school to deal with it during school or school programs.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
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dually,

If a prayer is held at some event, the non-religious folks do not have to participate. It is sad that people find prayer offensive.
 

reitz

Elite Member
Oct 11, 1999
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I'm curious, Moonbeam, just how many of our founding fathers actually owned slaves? Yes, there were some, but there were also plenty who did not (Adams, Adams, Hancock, Franklin, etc.)

Your assertation is quite inaccurate, and IMAO, pointless.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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The point of the thread was to debuse us of certain assumptions about slaves. I added to that the fact that slaves made us and US possible. For something pointless you're invested way too much time. Were the individuals you mentioned wealthy and if so at whose expense and on whose backs. We were a slave economy. Our wealth was slave generated. I don't remember where I heard the article so I can't look up the info in question. I found it rather interesting and felt no need to freak out or get defensive when I heard it.