Most innovative Console Manuf, through history?

[reallyscrued]

jaguar's controller was the most innovative controller ever!

+ (-1).

 

[CZroe]

I've played those games on an emulator with a dualshock and I found it to generally be a better experience than the n64 controller. You have to configure it slightly different for games that use the d-pad, but it works very well in general.

Just like some third-party controllers on a real N64, Mario Kart 64 allows a slight over-steer on all emulators (Wii Virtual Console included) which causes your character to spin out seemingly randomly. Blast Corps would make your character walk backwards if you went beyond the allowable input range. Zelda Ocarina of Time is almost impossible to do the chrage-less spin attack (spin stick and use sword; does not use magic) unless you play on a PC with an Adaptoid and actual N64 controller using a plug-in for direct Adaptoid input (has an API). Other games use the C-buttons in a way that can't be easily applied to a C-stick. For example, Sin and Punishment is simply not the same on Wii VC (dual analog) vs. the N64 controller. Yes, you would call it "serviceable," but I wouldn't even want to play it that way.

 

[CZroe]

I said features that were "sorely lacking". Not features that had never been done on a console. My whole point is that MS deserve some credit for implementing proper, widespread, robust online content to consoles. Features that had only been done half-assed and were sparsely used prior to that.

I'd be surprised if even 5% of US/EU PS2 owners ever owned the HDD or played a game online. And of the ones who did, the vast majority likely only used it for FF XI.

Contrast that with Xbox, where Live was THE killer feature that set it apart. Do you honestly think anybody would've given a crap about a Microsoft console unless it had something that the others lacked?

I bet that a much higher percentage of the ones still in use capable of having an HDD are using them thanks to FMCB + HDL/OPL. Heck, FMCB + HDA/OPL are probably pretty popular on the slim versions too.

 

[CZroe]

Guess you've never heard of the Atari Jaguar ? Or Lynx ? As well as innovating the market as it exists today.

And I include the Atari 800 and Atari ST as well because even though they were computers, they were fantastic game consoles too.

What was innovative about the Jag? The EULA you had to agree to before opening it due to the bundled Cybermorph? The keypad with inserts had been done before and the three action buttons was something Sega had already proved was short-sighted (Sega 6-button controller was a testament to that).

 

[CZroe]

I remember enjoying the intellivision and colecovision at friends houses when I was a little kid. They were unremarkable but not terrible. The Nes obviously blew them away shortly thereafter.

I also remember being rather impressed by some golf game I saw on the cd-i when it first came out, with live commentary and all. I'd definitely never seen anything like it before. The FMV actually looked like video and not that grainy sega CD crap. It of course was a terrible system, but it was at least a little remarkable at it's time.

The jaguar was nothing but trash. I remember the bundled game with the morphing spaceship was just retarded compared to the awesomeness of starfox.

My 3DO outperformed my CD-i for FMV and I don't have the MPEG adapter for either. Me suspects that the particular CD-i golf game used the MPEG adapter. I do have CD-i movies but I just played those in a regular VCD/DVD player. I bet they'd play fine on my Bung Doctor V64 too (unofficial N64 accessory).

And, yeah, Starfox was a much better game but Cybermorph did have a higher FPS. It didn't even have music and I greatly preferred animal chatter noises to the "Well done" face that wouldn't shut up in Cybermorph.

 

[Tom]

this thread isnt about the quality of consoles or whether or not you like them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOyhWT9mQy4&feature=related

Look at the Jaguar and Lynx in terms of innovation, the Jaguar was the first 5th generation console, the Lynx was a very advanced handheld.

 

[BD2003]

this thread isnt about the quality of consoles or whether or not you like them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOyhWT9mQy4&feature=related

Look at the Jaguar and Lynx in terms of innovation, the Jaguar was the first 5th generation console, the Lynx was a very advanced handheld.

But there's nothing particularly innovative about the steady march of audiovisual upgrades. That's practically a given with a new console. Other than that, the jaguar did absolutely nothing new.

 

[CZroe]

this thread isnt about the quality of consoles or whether or not you like them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOyhWT9mQy4&feature=related

Look at the Jaguar and Lynx in terms of innovation, the Jaguar was the first 5th generation console, the Lynx was a very advanced handheld.

Being the first arbitrarily lumped with others has nothing to do with innovation. The Lynx/Lynx II qualify because they were way ahead of their time with color 16-bit gaming and ambidextrous orientation (like Gravis gamepad).

 

[Ichinisan]

Also, I find that those little embedded ridges at the base of the stick that forces it into one of the 8 directions is a really poor design. Every nintendo analog stick (other than the yellow GC C stick IIRC) has that stupid, restrictive design.

Wow. This is extremely wrong. As CZroe said, it's extremely useful when you need to make sure you're pushing hard right / left without nosing up or down.

 

[purbeast0]

Oh, you're sooooo right. I love logging onto my game system and being bombarded with ads for stupid games, movies, promotions and music that I would never look twice at. Oh and how about that innovative avatar? Yeah, now THAT is innovation! Oh, cross game chat you say? Been able to do that since the 90's on PC....TRULY INNOVATIVE! Game demos are innovation now, really? You guys are lost in your own egos, seriously. Live is the biggest turd in gaming. $60 a year for cross gaming chat, YAY!!!! Where do I sign up!!!??? /end sarcasm

again no clue why people are bringing PC's into the console discussion. who gives a shit what a PC could do in the 90's, it is irrelevant to the discussion here.

and as anyone with a brain knows, xbox live can be found for $30 - $35 very easily for a year.

xbox live is about integration, and no other console has come close to it. Sony is playing catchup but they have a long ways to go.

 

[Ichinisan]

xbox live is about integration, and no other console has come close to it. Sony is playing catchup but they have a long ways to go.

Really? A "long way?" The PS3 supports standard Bluetooth accessories (mouse, keyboard, headset). It supports standard 2.5" SATA hard drives. WiFi is standard on all but the most rare versions of the console. It takes standard storage devices instead of a proprietary memory card. I think the PS3 is a bit more "integrated" than the 360.

 

[CZroe]

Really? A "long way?" The PS3 supports standard Bluetooth accessories (mouse, keyboard, headset). It supports standard 2.5" SATA hard drives. Wireless is standard on all but the most rare versions of the console. It takes standard storage devices instead of a proprietary memory card. I think the PS3 is a bit more "integrated" than the 360.

Not to mention, MS resisted adding HDMI for the longest time and the PS3 incorporates a built-in HD video playback device for physically packaged HD media (BD player). At FW3.15, mine even still supports Linux.

The PS3 fully integrates more features and standards by far while the XBOX 360 further fragments the market with proprietary components wherever it can: Mem cards, headset ports, keyboard interfaces, wireless interfaces, incompatible standard accessories (wifi adapters, HDD, etc), and so on. Until they finally added HDMI, you couldn't even use a standard video cable with it. Though many consoles have been guilty of that for a long time, the early PSX models had female RCA cinch connectors (composite) on the back in addition to the multi-out port as did the original NES (RF and composite) and Atari 2600 (carried straight RF instead of composite; SNES did too but also added a multi-out for AV/S-Video).

 

[DivideBYZero]

Fixed. Yeah...real innovate. Oh and if "being around the longest" meant anything, Atari's Jaguar wouldn't have sucked and Sega would still be in business. Nintendo doesn't really just have a seniority advantage.

Sony gets way too much credit for dual analog sticks. Dual Dpads were used before, it was only a matter of time two analog sticks would come into play after the 64's huge success with them. In fact, Goldeneye 64 and Perfect Dark had the option for dual analog (but you had to use two controllers). That shit was awesome.

The dualshock wasn't really innovative I would say, just packing more of what's already been invented into its package. A new revision of a Phenom II clocked at 5 ghz with 24 megs of cache wouldn't be innovative, new architecture like bulldozer should be.

Btw, the 3DO uses optical media before Sony did, and there was another console before that to use it (can't remember atm).

NEC PC Engine.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Microsoft weren't what I'd consider "innovative", but they brought advancements that were SORELY lacking in consoles:

- HDD (okay, PS2 had one that a whopping one game made use of)
- downloadable game demos
- robust online gaming match-making system
- free (to the game companies) hosting of all online content and game servers
- DLC/micro transactions
- online gamer profiles with achievements and gamer score
- XBLA games and indie games
- custom soundtracks and media streaming abilities

So while I don't consider them to be very innovative, I still think they have contributed more to console gaming in the last decade than Sony and Nintendo combined.

Wow, your XBOX LIVE! shorts are showing...

 

[BD2003]

Wow. This is extremely wrong. As CZroe said, it's extremely useful when you need to make sure you're pushing hard right / left without nosing up or down.

Try playing geometry wars with it. Or anything else that requires fine adjustment in 360 at the limits. Its almost impossible to do so well, and its restrictive. Makes the analog stick feel too digital. I get what everyone is saying, but I dont like it. I can push hard left without nosing up and down just fine.

 

[BD2003]

Wow, your XBOX LIVE! shorts are showing...

I'm with him. Id rather play on XBL than PSN, Nintendo Online, or yes, even the PC at this point, and I have all those options at hand. XBL is the class leader for a console online service. I dont like paying for it, but it IS the best, bar none. And not only is it the best, it was the first I'd call a legitimate "modern" online service. I dont know what PSN and Nintendo's online would look like without XBL as a model, but I dont think it would be very good.

 

[purbeast0]

Really? A "long way?" The PS3 supports standard Bluetooth accessories (mouse, keyboard, headset). It supports standard 2.5" SATA hard drives. WiFi is standard on all but the most rare versions of the console. It takes standard storage devices instead of a proprietary memory card. I think the PS3 is a bit more "integrated" than the 360.

i'm talking about the integration between the console, os, online, and the games. not talking hardware at all.

i'm talking about how EVERY single 360 game, since launch, has required to have achievements, in game voice chat, a way to browse the console OS from in game, way to send messages accross to friends from in game, a way to send game invites to anybody at any time, every game has to be live enabled, etc. nowhere am i talking about hardware at all.

sure on ps3 you can send game invites to people, but it is totally different for every game, and (usually) you have to go to some screen, in that same game, to accept the actual invite. so every dev has their own way to do this.

when ps3 was launched you couldn't even access the XMB from in game, that took a while to be patched in, and still doesn't work for some games. (can't access the XMB from in game while playing hot shots golf online) i even remember some games still having this feature "hacked" into it, where yo ucan see the whole XMB menu from in game, however when you click anything it says that you must quit to access it.

the ps3 patched in trophy's as well and it still isn't even up to par with achievements. sure you can come in and say you don't care about em, but they ad something to the game for many people.

in game voice chat is not a requirement for ps3 at this point still, and the in game voice chat is awful quality compared to 360. also, cross game voice chat was implemented fairly recently for ps3 (compared to it's life span).

not to mention the actual online experience in games is much better on xbox 360 than on ps3, and i believe this is due to the way xbox live was integrated over psn. xbox live was a priority for MS and it seems like PSN was just tacked on. granted, PSN has gotten much better over time but it still is lacking.

so what i meant about "integration" is how xbox 360 had all of this stuff done extremely well and streamlined very well from the get go, and "xbox live" is the backbone of all that.

and there isn't even a need to mention nintendo in this discussion because they are so far behind the ball.

 

[DivideBYZero]

I'm with him. Id rather play on XBL than PSN, Nintendo Online, or yes, even the PC at this point, and I have all those options at hand. XBL is the class leader for a console online service. I dont like paying for it, but it IS the best, bar none. And not only is it the best, it was the first I'd call a legitimate "modern" online service. I dont know what PSN and Nintendo's online would look like without XBL as a model, but I dont think it would be very good.

That's great, but there is no way you can discount the last ten years of Sony/Nintendo with XBL as your reason. No way at all.

 

[Spydermag68]

The PS2 from 2000 had a space for a hard drive, but did not ship with one and the feature was not used by most of the owners.

 

[Tom]

But there's nothing particularly innovative about the steady march of audiovisual upgrades. That's practically a given with a new console. Other than that, the jaguar did absolutely nothing new.

you can't have it both ways. Either there's been little real, innovation since the 2600, in which case Atari wins by default, or the first console to have a feature or level of power is innovative in which case the Jaguar was the first to have several things.

Additionally, if you want to be really strict about what innovation is, which is how I prefer to look at it, then bringing features from PCs to consoles isn't innovation either.

 

[smartpatrol]

That's great, but there is no way you can discount the last ten years of Sony/Nintendo with XBL as your reason. No way at all.

What innovations have Sony and Nintendo brought to console gaming in the last 10 years that you consider more significant than Xbox Live? I'm honestly curious.

 

[reallyscrued]

What innovations have Sony and Nintendo brought to console gaming in the last 10 years that you consider more significant than Xbox Live? I'm honestly curious.

http://www.ranker.com/list/the-25-b...damthomas?page=1&format=BLOG&sortby=&sortdir=

Just pick and choose what you want that fits into your timeframe of "ten years".
You'll probably discount all of them anyway.

 

[BoberFett]

All of those companies innovated in some way, but consistently innovative over a lengthy period of time? Nintendo by far.

 

[Tom]

What innovations have Sony and Nintendo brought to console gaming in the last 10 years that you consider more significant than Xbox Live? I'm honestly curious.

xbox live is innovative in that it has an annual fee for services that are free on other consoles and computers.

obviously the Wii controllers are innovative; arguably the most significant console innovation since the Atari 2600 brought the idea of selling games as seperate products, not just built-in to the console.

 

[purbeast0]

xbox live is innovative in that it has an annual fee for services that are free on other consoles and computers.

obviously the Wii controllers are innovative; arguably the most significant console innovation since the Atari 2600 brought the idea of selling games as seperate products, not just built-in to the console.

again bringing computers into a console discussion - totally irrelevant.

if xbox live wasn't innovative, why the hell is sony trying to play catchup with it with PSN and basically trying to copy it? they even have a pay service now for psn subscribers.

i'm pretty sure all the xbl subscribers over the past 2 weeks are also much MUCH happier with their service than the psn users are.