Most Illegal Immigrant Families Collect Welfare

[EagleKeeper]

I have no problem discussing reasonable limits on immigration. I happen to believe it's beneficial to our country to allow much greater immigration, but I also believe in compromise.

My biggest issue is, it's way too easy to blame immigrants for things, whether it's fair or not. As long as there are people who want to deny food to American children because their parents come from South of the border, Im gonna fight against that.

Example-It's not right to call a fellow American, an "anchor baby". To me that is disgusting and unpatriotic in the extreme.

If the intent is to have the child on American soil for purposes of obtaining benefits/security for the illegal family; that is not being unpatriotic. It is being honest.
The child was being used for one purpose by the family.

 

[actuarial]

If the intent is to have the child on American soil for purposes of obtaining benefits/security for the illegal family; that is not being unpatriotic. It is being honest.
The child was being used for one purpose by the family.

By why fault the kid for that? This kid is an American citizen based on current laws.

Based on the article, the benefits that the kids of ILLEGAL immigrants are getting are mainly food and healthcare for the kid. So it's not as if the whole family is getting benefits.

The other programs which benefit whole families are being used primarily be LEGAL immigrants. That's not an anchor baby issue.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Illegals are utilizing services based on the fact that they have a legal child to justify the use of services for all; not just the legal child.

That is not what was intended and is what is being widely abused.

 

[actuarial]

Illegals are utilizing services based on the fact that they have a legal child to justify the use of services for all; not just the legal child.

That is not what was intended and is what is being widely abused.

Not according to the article that this thread is based on:

Food assistance and Medicaid are the programs most commonly used by illegal immigrants, mainly on behalf of their American-born children who get automatic citizenship.

 

[Svnla]

I said this before in another thread and I think it is still applicable for this thread. BTW, I am NOT white and a LEGAL immigrant so "racist/bias/discrimination/ect" labels won't work.

===============================================================
Allow me to jump in (speaking from a point of view of a LEGAL non white immigrant myself).

ILLEGAL immigration is serious because we, as a nation, can't afford to let million and million of illiterate and unskill people to sneak in. We don't have open frontier/land/wide open space as we used to have in the 1800s. Resources such as water, land, comodities are finite and getting less and less available. Also, more and more available jobs (good paying) are demanding people with highly skills and education. We don't have (that much) the back breaking manual labor works that don't require education/skills anymore.

Another thing about ILLEGALS is that they ignore laws and regulations AND get reward for that. We have million and millions of well to do, well educated, highly skill people from other countries, and foreign students that were educated in the US, that want to get here LEGALLY yet they have to suffer years and years of waiting and huge cost to get here LEGALLY (if they are lucky). Why even bother to have immigration laws if a person can sneak in here ILLEGALLY and get ahead in front of million and million of others? No, ammnesty won't work because we tried that before several times and we are having bigger ILLEGAL immigration problems now.

Another thing, we as a nation (most of us), want the best for our country, therefore, we should get the best individuals for our "team". Let say you want to set up a sport team, would you pick the best players/highly skill for your team or the sorry players with "heart break" stories? Someone told me a while back, if we have to (in theory), we can make doctors, engineers, lawyers, etc. to mow yards, clean up toilet, nanny our kids but there is no way we can make illiterate people to do tasks of doctors/lawyers/engineers/highly skill and well educate people.

One last thing, LEGAL immigrants bring innovation, skills, ideas, creativity, brain power, and be highly beneficial to our nation. For example: Andy Groove of Intel, Google founders, Yahoo co-founders, and much more. See here (note the different racial/background make up)= http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09...migrants/1.htm

Would you rather let those people in and help us built a better US in a more competitive world or those illiterate ILLEGALS? The choice is clear.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Illegals are utilizing services based on the fact that they have a legal child to justify the use of services for all; not just the legal child.

That is not what was intended and is what is being widely abused.

Not according to the article that this thread is based on:

Food assistance and Medicaid are the programs most commonly used by illegal immigrants, mainly on behalf of their American-born children who get automatic citizenship.

So a family signs up for services and only use them for the legal child.

RIGHT!

Medicaid is assigned to the complete family - not filtered out by legality.
Food stamps & assistance are based on the family size. Example: $400 vs $100 for a family that has 3 illegals and one legal*. Which would they accept when handed to them. They are going to tear up 3/4 of their stamps or not use all the funds on a debit card.

* The actual numbers are not correct but used as a example to show the "false" assumption

Tell us another!

The use of an anchor baby is the way to open the door to services that can/will be provided without questions.

 

[Svnla]

Good article to read.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110511/ap_on_re_us/us_immigration_college_student

Gotta love this part.

Last month, Perez was one of seven illegal immigrant youths who demanded greater access to higher education by sitting down in an Atlanta street blocking traffic until police arrested them.

I would like to have people who argued for the ILLEGALS to sneak in Mexico or any South American countries, heck, or any countries on earth ILLEGALLY and then behave like this ILLEGAL and her ILLEGAL friends. Let see how you would be treat and then you can come back here and tell us how racist/xenophobia law abiding American people are.

 

[tydas]

There will never be resolution to any serious issue in this country because the facts and truth are irrelevant..(and guess what..this is not a serious issue)

nuff said..we are doomed...

 

[Jhhnn]

I'd like to return to this-

The Social Security Administration DID develop and advertise a database. Upon receiving the emploment forms from a perspective employee, the employer could verify the SS# provided.

Last I heard this was to be discontinued. The IRS has been heavily emphasizing that this database should NOT be relied upon. It's not because the database was inaccurate. It's because of resulting lawsuits by the perspective employee (or some group on their behalf) claiming racial discrimination.

So, IMO what we need is legal reform to empower employers with the ability to refuse illegals without fear of lawsuits counterproductive to our nation's laws.

Fern

The reason that discrimination claims can be effective is because employers can use a voluntary system in a discriminatory way, obviously, at least those who choose to use it at all.

OTOH, if it were mandatory, it wouldn't be discriminatory at all.

The raving about it being "anti-business" would be epic, I'm sure, and would emanate from the same places that current anti-illegal raving comes from- the paid mouthpieces of the Right. They'd cover it under the usual ranting against big intrusive gubmint and Big Brother... Stealing yur Freedom! and anything else they could find that might protect the ability of big business to hire illegals...

 

[Zorkorist]

There will never be resolution to any serious issue in this country because the facts and truth are irrelevant..(and guess what..this is not a serious issue)

nuff said..we are doomed...

More people are discussing, what were previously closed room discussins. and you are part of that. Your voice IS HEARD, on our tiny dinky, forum.

-John

 

[davmat787]

I'd like to return to this-



The reason that discrimination claims can be effective is because employers can use a voluntary system in a discriminatory way, obviously, at least those who choose to use it at all.

OTOH, if it were mandatory, it wouldn't be discriminatory at all.

The raving about it being "anti-business" would be epic, I'm sure, and would emanate from the same places that current anti-illegal raving comes from- the paid mouthpieces of the Right. They'd cover it under the usual ranting against big intrusive gubmint and Big Brother... Stealing yur Freedom! and anything else they could find that might protect the ability of big business to hire illegals...

When you say "big business to hire illegals", what big businesses are you referring to?

 

[Jhhnn]

When you say "big business to hire illegals", what big businesses are you referring to?

Like this, and many, many others-

http://www.greeleytribune.com/article/20061212/NEWS/61212033

Google "ICE raid".

 

[Darwin333]

When you say "big business to hire illegals", what big businesses are you referring to?

I guess that depends on your definition of big business. Been to any large construction sites lately? I am currently learning to speak Spanish, not because I really want to but because being able to effectively communicate with other trades is vital for me to properly do my job.

 

[Modelworks]

I live in an area of NC that has more illegals than any other area of the state . State average is about 8%, we are at 22% . Most of the illegals here are decent and hard working but there are also those that are not as our crime rate for violent crimes has gone up in proportion to the increase of illegals. Today I needed to see a doctor and normally the office is just walk in and you can see them in at most an hour or two. Boy did I get a surprise today. Not only could I not see the doctor, it would be 2-3 weeks before I could. This was the local clinic, the type of place that charges based on income and they do have good care so I use them . Two years ago it was never full like this. Just about every person waiting or coming in were latino. It was bad enough that the grocery stores have switched out things I used to buy for their latin equivalents , but now I can't even get to see a doctor like I used to. The local social services has already blown their yearly budget with months to go. The whole thing is just out of control and is killing what few social services we had.

 

[Modelworks]

The Federal government needs to step up to the plate and put forth an ironclad way for employers to legally screen potential hires without running afoul of the law.

The burden of proof and responsibility for eligibility should be on the federal government and not on employers who comply with the law.

We can blame the IRS. The IRS will issue a TAX ID number to anyone for the purpose of paying taxes. All you need is an ID from the country you came from, it is a one page form with name adress, birthdate, etc.
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=96696,00.html
Once they have the TAX ID they can then get a drivers license using their birth certificate, country of origin doesn't matter. With the drivers license and tax id they can then get a job, buy a car, home, file for welfare , etc. All without ever being legal.

Some might think what is the big deal if they pay taxes. The problem is the taxes paid are usually not accurate. For example one illegal will get benefits for the entire home while other people in the home work and get support too under alternative names and addresses. The result is one home might be getting 4 or 5 families worth of benefits because social services departments have no way to track the information given to the IRS under the TAX ID setups.

 

[davmat787]

Like this, and many, many others-

http://www.greeleytribune.com/article/20061212/NEWS/61212033

Google "ICE raid".

What I was getting at with my question in regards to your big business/illegals comment is that it seems like illegals are mostly working for small businesses such as restaurants, agricultural, construction contractors, etc. I don't have stats to back this up, but I would assume big businesses with their HR and Legal departments can't "afford" TO hire illegals in the PR and compliance sense, and can afford NOT to hire illegals as they are "big business" as you say. Seems like it is the companies that can relatively fly under the radar that are hiring the illegals. Just something I have been curious about.

 

[Tom]

So a family signs up for services and only use them for the legal child.

RIGHT!

Medicaid is assigned to the complete family - not filtered out by legality.
Food stamps & assistance are based on the family size. Example: $400 vs $100 for a family that has 3 illegals and one legal*. Which would they accept when handed to them. They are going to tear up 3/4 of their stamps or not use all the funds on a debit card.

* The actual numbers are not correct but used as a example to show the "false" assumption

Tell us another!

The use of an anchor baby is the way to open the door to services that can/will be provided without questions.

you're calling them "illegals" is a good illustration of how propaganda and dehumanization works, perfected by Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels, btw.

Not saying it's your idea, you most likely are just letting your mind be controlled, as intended.

What we are talking about here, are people. Some are citizens, some are not citizens but with papers, some are not citizens without papers. But they are people, not "illegals".

So you can advocate what you want to do to people, based on their status, but when you use a dehumanizing term to not admit you are doing it to people, you lose the legitimacy of your position.

 

[Jhhnn]

What I was getting at with my question in regards to your big business/illegals comment is that it seems like illegals are mostly working for small businesses such as restaurants, agricultural, construction contractors, etc. I don't have stats to back this up, but I would assume big businesses with their HR and Legal departments can't "afford" TO hire illegals in the PR and compliance sense, and can afford NOT to hire illegals as they are "big business" as you say. Seems like it is the companies that can relatively fly under the radar that are hiring the illegals. Just something I have been curious about.

You assume wrong. If the info on the application checks out, if they even bother to check it out, they're free to hire anybody they want because they have plausible deniability. Franchise businesses, like fast food are among the worst offenders around here, and any sort of sub-contract deal, like cleaning, construction and many others are basically the same.

Big business luvs illegals, precisely because they are illegal. They have no rights & they know it, act accordingly. They work hard & cheap, show up every day, never file complaints with the labor dept or OSHA, and they'll never organize. Completely disposable, too- the perfect employees in the eyes of their corporate bosses.

Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise.

 

[Jhhnn]

I live in an area of NC that has more illegals than any other area of the state . State average is about 8%, we are at 22% . Most of the illegals here are decent and hard working but there are also those that are not as our crime rate for violent crimes has gone up in proportion to the increase of illegals. Today I needed to see a doctor and normally the office is just walk in and you can see them in at most an hour or two. Boy did I get a surprise today. Not only could I not see the doctor, it would be 2-3 weeks before I could. This was the local clinic, the type of place that charges based on income and they do have good care so I use them . Two years ago it was never full like this. Just about every person waiting or coming in were latino. It was bad enough that the grocery stores have switched out things I used to buy for their latin equivalents , but now I can't even get to see a doctor like I used to. The local social services has already blown their yearly budget with months to go. The whole thing is just out of control and is killing what few social services we had.

We can blame the IRS. The IRS will issue a TAX ID number to anyone for the purpose of paying taxes. All you need is an ID from the country you came from, it is a one page form with name adress, birthdate, etc.
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=96696,00.html
Once they have the TAX ID they can then get a drivers license using their birth certificate, country of origin doesn't matter. With the drivers license and tax id they can then get a job, buy a car, home, file for welfare , etc. All without ever being legal.

Some might think what is the big deal if they pay taxes. The problem is the taxes paid are usually not accurate. For example one illegal will get benefits for the entire home while other people in the home work and get support too under alternative names and addresses. The result is one home might be getting 4 or 5 families worth of benefits because social services departments have no way to track the information given to the IRS under the TAX ID setups.

I'm not sure your allegation wrt tax ID is accurate, but I'm not sure. It's merely allegation on your part at this point.

So, uhh, which employers in your area are responsible for the influx, if it exists at all? My own experience is that illegals want to work, more than anything else, and they go to where they can get it. I doubt that the welfare benefits in your state are what attracts them...

 

[Fern]

They cannot get a job with the tax ID Modelworks speaks of. It's not a valid SS#.

It exists because we have, and encourage, foreigners to invest in teh US (stock market, bonds, bank accounts etc) and those institutions (stock market, brokers, banks etc) and the IRS need some sort of number to track that stuff.

Fern

 

[OCGuy]

you're calling them "illegals" is a good illustration of how propaganda and dehumanization works, perfected by Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels, btw.

Not saying it's your idea, you most likely are just letting your mind be controlled, as intended.

What we are talking about here, are people. Some are citizens, some are not citizens but with papers, some are not citizens without papers. But they are people, not "illegals".

So you can advocate what you want to do to people, based on their status, but when you use a dehumanizing term to not admit you are doing it to people, you lose the legitimacy of your position.

Semantics will get us nowhere. They are illegal immigrants, and they need to go home and attempt to enter the US through legal channels.

At least Obama is keeping up the deportations.

 

[OutHouse]

You hardly are one to comment. How many Latino famlies do you live and work with? Help? Are your neighbors? And I don't mean Pedro at the corner store who bags your groceries you save hi to.



You know shit a bunch of old white rich dudes told you on tv with an agenda. People who live in glass houses....

Flagged for blantant racism

 

[OutHouse]

Illegals are utilizing services based on the fact that they have a legal child to justify the use of services for all; not just the legal child.

That is not what was intended and is what is being widely abused.

Correct

 

[nobodyknows]

I have no problem discussing reasonable limits on immigration. I happen to believe it's beneficial to our country to allow much greater immigration, but I also believe in compromise.

My biggest issue is, it's way too easy to blame immigrants for things, whether it's fair or not. As long as there are people who want to deny food to American children because their parents come from South of the border, Im gonna fight against that.

Example-It's not right to call a fellow American, an "anchor baby". To me that is disgusting and unpatriotic in the extreme.

The bolded statement may very well be true, but who we let into our country is up to the citizens of the country, not the people who want to sneak in here illegally.

We also need to change the law that make a person automatically become a US citizen just because he/she was born here. That was NOT the intent of the law and if it isn't changed we will NEVER get a handle on implementing and enforcing a good immigration policy.

 

[Patranus]

I have no problem discussing reasonable limits on immigration. I happen to believe it's beneficial to our country to allow much greater immigration, but I also believe in compromise.

Ya....
Lets let a bunch of poor people with no skills into this country legally to suck off the taxpayers even more.

What could go wrong?