Most cases are big waste of space

[mindless1]

Lol, that's what you think.

There's actually a decent market for older Lian-Li cases and some people are willing to pay a sizable amount for them.

Anyway, I agree, a lot of cases, especially "space-conscious" mATX designs, still leave a lot of space unused. IMO, I think the Silverstone SG-05 and SG-07 are some of the most efficient designs out there.

But who really cares? Solution to empty space in a PC case isn't spending time on that, it's figuring out why there isn't room for a few inches of space.

Trying to shrink everything down as much as possible is madness that will never end. The industry will do it regardless but to go on some quest? It's deluded, taking idealism to an extreme as if it replaces whatever the real issue was.

I don't want to drive the smallest car I can fit in. I don't want to live in the smallest house I can either. To make a case the smallest it can possibly be is equally insane.

Some common sense please? (Not directed at you, the whole topic is ridiculous... it's so far off the charts of what matters in life that to spend time on it, (even me replying), is like a big wake up call that we're all spoiled silly and need to take a vacation or something). Smaller computer case? Really? With all the issues in the world this is important enough to write about?

Sorry, no. (rant over).

 

[sandorski]

But who really cares? Solution to empty space in a PC case isn't spending time on that, it's figuring out why there isn't room for a few inches of space.

Trying to shrink everything down as much as possible is madness that will never end. The industry will do it regardless but to go on some quest? It's deluded, taking idealism to an extreme as if it replaces whatever the real issue was.

I don't want to drive the smallest car I can fit in. I don't want to live in the smallest house I can either. To make a case the smallest it can possibly be is equally insane.

Some common sense please? (Not directed at you, the whole topic is ridiculous... it's so far off the charts of what matters in life that to spend time on it, (even me replying), is like a big wake up call that we're all spoiled silly and need to take a vacation or something). Smaller computer case? Really? With all the issues in the world this is important enough to write about?

Sorry, no. (rant over).

Totally disagree.

 

[mindless1]

^ In what way do you disagree? What does this solve which makes it more worthy of your time than *real* world problems?

I'd like a smaller box of tissues. I'd like a shirt that fits more perfectly. I'd like a purer shade of green for my lawn... In the end it didn't really matter.

 

[Joshatdot]

I got me a COOLER MASTER Elite 341, mATX case for my new build. It had everything I wanted: 120mm fan front, back, side; two 5.25 bays; two 3.5 bays; FPA & USB that is not on the bottom or on top of case; can fit a Hyper 212+.

My only gripes are that is is 0.8mm metal, a bit flimsy for my liking .. but it has all the stuff I want. And the tool-less drive bays aren't that solid.

 

[MrK6]

But who really cares? Solution to empty space in a PC case isn't spending time on that, it's figuring out why there isn't room for a few inches of space.

Trying to shrink everything down as much as possible is madness that will never end. The industry will do it regardless but to go on some quest? It's deluded, taking idealism to an extreme as if it replaces whatever the real issue was.

I don't want to drive the smallest car I can fit in. I don't want to live in the smallest house I can either. To make a case the smallest it can possibly be is equally insane.

Some common sense please? (Not directed at you, the whole topic is ridiculous... it's so far off the charts of what matters in life that to spend time on it, (even me replying), is like a big wake up call that we're all spoiled silly and need to take a vacation or something). Smaller computer case? Really? With all the issues in the world this is important enough to write about?

Sorry, no. (rant over).

This is an ignorant view point though, isn't it? There are people that have a need to fit the most powerful rig possible in the smallest case. Look at Zap's post for his LAN rig, for instance. Another person is me, my parents want a new computer for their new house and I'm deciding if I want to buy a Dell/HP All-in-One or build one using a very small case (mostly for space/aesthetic issues). Because you don't have a need for a case doesn't mean someone else doesn't.

Also, the space in cars or a house are used differently than the space in a PC, so those are both inane analogies.

 

[mindless1]

This is an ignorant view point though, isn't it?

I don't know, IS your following statement really true? Let's examine it.

There are people that have a need to fit the most powerful rig possible in the smallest case.

I'm thinking the word need above should be replaced with "idealized desire" or "want". Even NASA doesn't "need" to fit the most powerful rig possible in the smallest case. If that's what you want, so be it - but it's taking an issue and fixating on it instead of whether there's a true need in a niche market (which is why the majority of cases available aren't like this).

Look at Zap's post for his LAN rig, for instance. Another person is me, my parents want a new computer for their new house and I'm deciding if I want to buy a Dell/HP All-in-One or build one using a very small case (mostly for space/aesthetic issues). Because you don't have a need for a case doesn't mean someone else doesn't.

... and no matter how small it ends up being, someone can just come along and wish it were even smaller. How about a case that not only takes up no space but it changes the space time continuum and makes your home have more free space than without it?

Also, the space in cars or a house are used differently than the space in a PC, so those are both inane analogies.

The space the PC takes up is space in your house. It's not just an appropriate analogy, it's the most appropriate analogy possible. The only "need" for a shrunken PC is if one failed to plan what size PC cases usually are, or to reduce size and weight enough to make it portable.

If you "want" one, that's a different story but it doesn't change the fact that it's quite arbitrary to focus on this. How many times have you thought about whether the case on a DVD player could be shrunken down a little because you "need" that? Maybe there's space in your attic you aren't using, let's replace the roof? Your kitchen chairs are 2" wider than you, let's free up some kitchen space. It never ends when you always long for something to be better in a trivial way because nothing will ever be "perfect", it's chasing a ghost.

(sigh) I'm not against downsized PC cases. With so much integrated onto motherboards they make at least as much sense now as ever - but most of the time I read of people downsizing just for the sake of downsizing, without any real need and towards eventual handicap. Certainly a tech site computer forum is one of the last places on the internet where people are going to agree so I'll stop wasting our time and leave the topic.

 

[MrK6]

I don't know, IS your following statement really true? Let's examine it.

All you're trying to do is force your opinion on a situation that doesn't care about it, unfortunately for you.

I'm thinking the word need above should be replaced with "idealized desire" or "want". Even NASA doesn't "need" to fit the most powerful rig possible in the smallest case. If that's what you want, so be it - but it's taking an issue and fixating on it instead of whether there's a true need in a niche market (which is why the majority of cases available aren't like this).

For that market, there is a need. Your arbitrary distinction of "want" and "need" is a straw man set up to suit your purpose. For the people buying these cases, it many times is a "need." As in, I need the smallest case possible for LAN's so I don't throw my back out. Or I need a smaller case because this shelf in the book case it's going in is only 10" high and 12" long. Furthermore, one could take your argument and turn it completely on itself and say your opinion is innately trivial as it concerns such a "fluff" asset as a computer, as they aren't a "need" anyway, just a "want." If you're going to have a debate on a topic, you need to reference more than your personal opinion, as it holds zero weight.

... and no matter how small it ends up being, someone can just come along and wish it were even smaller. How about a case that not only takes up no space but it changes the space time continuum and makes your home have more free space than without it?

That would great if it every happened. What do you have against progress? Furthermore, why would you come to a tech forum to express it, considering this is a very progressive community concerning technology?

The space the PC takes up is space in your house. It's not just an appropriate analogy, it's the most appropriate analogy possible. The only "need" for a shrunken PC is if one failed to plan what size PC cases usually are.

It's a poor analogy because no one is living inside the PC case. Any "extra" space in the PC case is dead, wasted space, why wouldn't you minimize it? Furthermore, if there are options on the market for smaller cases to do the same job, why wouldn't one get one? Your argument is becoming more ludicrous by the minute. It's like you're saying there shouldn't be any ice cream but vanilla because that's what you think ice cream should taste like.

If you "want" one, that's a different story but it doesn't change the fact that it's quite arbitrary to focus on this. How many times have you thought about whether the case on a DVD player could be shrunken down a little because you "need" that? Maybe there's space in your attic you aren't using, let's replace the roof? Your kitchen chairs are 2" wider than you, let's free up some kitchen space. It never ends when you always long for something to be better in a trivial way because nothing will ever be "perfect", it's chasing a ghost.

(sigh) Certainly a tech site computer forum is one of the last places on the internet where people are going to agree so I'll stop wasting our time and leave the topic.

You'll leave the topic because you realize how inane your argument is once I've picked it apart. If PC cases of a certain size are fine for you, then good for you. To call another person's need superficial or unnecessary simply because you can't see the need for it is ignorant at best.

 

[sandorski]

^ In what way do you disagree? What does this solve which makes it more worthy of your time than *real* world problems?

I'd like a smaller box of tissues. I'd like a shirt that fits more perfectly. I'd like a purer shade of green for my lawn... In the end it didn't really matter.

Space.

 

[piasabird]

Small cost more . . . . . . .

Putting components too close together just creates more heat.

 

[T_Yamamoto]

Small cost more . . . . . . .

Putting components too close together just creates more heat.

small size you mean?

 

[weovpac]

I agree, if one does not need more than a few slots a microATX is the way to go or miniITX if one slot is all you need. Especially when building a new system.

But if you already own a ATX system and can not afford to buy a new motherboard and case. IMHO, the best case out now is a Lian Li A05NB: http://www.lian-li.com/v2/en/produc...ex=289&cl_index=1&sc_index=25&ss_index=62&g=f

 

[Skott]

I am actually building my next LAN party box super tiny.

For years I've done mATX and even mini ITX LAN systems. I've used several Ultra MicroFly/Aspire X-Qpack2 mATX cubes as well as mATX towers like the Antec NSK3480 and Cooler Master Elite 341. More recently I had a Lian Li PC-T7R and still have a Silverstone SG05, both ITX.

My next LAN party rig will be in an Antec ISK 300-150.

So what happened is that I built a rig in one to use in the garage, and I tossed in a low profile Radeon 4650 I had laying around for the heck of it. I put TF2 and MW3 on it, and they played fine at 1920x1080 in medium-ish settings! Other parts are Core i5-2500K, 8GB RAM, H67 chipset ITX mobo, stock CPU cooler, small SSD, slim ODD. PSU is 150W of course, and my power meter has yet to show over 110W pull from the wall even during gaming. Noisiest part of the system is actually the case fan that comes with it. It is an Antec Tri Cool and is still audible even on lowest settings.

So, I'm going to be putting higher capacity SSDs in there, and swapping the graphics card out with a low profile Radeon 6570 which I hope to get 50-80% more performance than the 4650 currently in there. That should allow me to play at higher settings, or more demanding games like BF3 (if I ever get around to playing it). The 6570 should arrive tomorrow. Differences

4650
600MHz core
320 stream processors
64-bit memory interface !!
DDR2 (unknown clock) !!
Note that most 4650 have 128-bit memory and use DDR3, so mine is especially slow.

6570
650MHz core
480 stream processors
128-bit memory interface
DDR3
supposedly 5W TDP lower than 4650

I fully expect to use it at LAN parties. Next big one I'm going to is AWOL LAN though I'll probably use it at small basement LANs and at home as my garage computer before then.

I should make a thread about it.





You mean like an Xbox? Oh wait... :sneaky:

I hope you do a build log, Zap. I would love to see what and how you do it. Also, would a 6670 GPU work in this case? I think it's the biggest low profile GPU currently available (as far as I know) and I'm curious if the 150 psu would run it okay. Anyway, looking forward to seeing your build.

 

[Zap]

Trying to shrink everything down as much as possible is madness that will never end.
...
I don't want to drive the smallest car I can fit in. I don't want to live in the smallest house I can either. To make a case the smallest it can possibly be is equally insane.

Equally insane is to make something as large as it can be just because you can.

Smaller computer case? Really? With all the issues in the world this is important enough to write about?

First world problem, for sure.

The only "need" for a shrunken PC is if one failed to plan what size PC cases usually are, or to reduce size and weight enough to make it portable.

If you "want" one, that's a different story but it doesn't change the fact that it's quite arbitrary to focus on this.

Just as arbitrary as everyone who buys a huge case and way more wattage PSU than they need, just because "maybe go dual graphics."

Small cost more . . . . . . .

No. Just checking on Newegg right now, ITX cases range from $40-200. ATX full towers range from $100-650. ITX Intel based motherboards range from $50 to $210. E-ATX Intel based motherboards range from $250 to $390.

Putting components too close together just creates more heat.

Heat is not an issue if the case is designed properly and has forced cooling (has fans).

I hope you do a build log, Zap. I would love to see what and how you do it. Also, would a 6670 GPU work in this case? I think it's the biggest low profile GPU currently available (as far as I know) and I'm curious if the 150 psu would run it okay. Anyway, looking forward to seeing your build.

I don't have a full build log, but will have a couple pics that I'll post... probably in the SFF forum.

6670 would indeed work, but my best guess is that performance will only increase in the 25-50% range (numbers pulled out of thin air). It is basically the same as the 6570, but clocked at 800MHz core versus 650MHz, and with GDDR5 instead of GDDR3 (both 128-bit). Cheapest 6670 low profile right now is just over $90 after rebate + shipping. I got the 6570 for around $50. The 6670 that would fit for sure is this Sapphire but it has a tiny blower which usually guarantees more noise. The seemingly identical Visiontek and HIS have fans which sticks out far enough that it isn't a true single slot card. The Antec ISK 300-150 case has a bit extra space, but I'm not 100% sure it will fit. Best bet is... probably. Still, just got the 6570 so I'll use it for now and see.

 

[Skott]

Thanks for the info, Zap. Good to know. Looking forward to any pics you can share. Good luck on the build.

 

[billyb0b]

i have a 800D, it's big and heavy but so well laid out with cabling and options to cleaning run a dual loop with all the bits clean and tidy

 

[VirtualLarry]

I will say this, in regards to mindless1's rant - not very many people need a case like a ThermalTake Armor. I got one for a planned storage server build, and it was too big. Heavy too.

There's nothing wrong with wanting a smaller case, really. I built a mini-ITX rig in a now-discontinued Rosewill case, I like it. I might just decommission my big rig during the summer, and stick to the tiny rig.

 

[Lumathix]

Whether they're a big waste of space depends on your viewpoint. Personally, on my builds, I like a lot of space to work with. I've just always gone with full towers. Sure I can cram all those brand new parts in a tiny space with less room to breath, but I choose not to. Plus, I'm a big guy, I like big stuff.

As for our hobby dying out, no idea what that means. I can find any type of case I want, in any variety, color, brand, feature set, etc. This shit is still fun to me. ()

 

[Zap]

Sure I can cram all those brand new parts in a tiny space with less room to breath

Small does not mean no airflow.

 

[aigomorla]

Or is it?

I've been looking for an mATX case that only needs to house a 2.5" SSD drive and a tower style CPU cooler w/ 120mm min. fans. Standard size GPU. No 3.5" HDD (got my NAS). No ODD either.

All I see: a bunch of mATX cases with lots of room for 3.5" HDDs and crap. If not that, it's the slims/ desktops that can't fit a tower cooler and require PCIe vertical adapters.



Any idea which case would fit this simple requirement?

Thanks in advance.

dude i couldnt fit 1 gpu card in a matx case with its cooling gear required... :biggrin:

Infact i dont think i can fit my pc inside anything but a big box err mountain mods case... however my cooling gear probably eats more space then my pc hardware.

 

[sandorski]

Small does not mean no airflow.

Indeed. In fact, I would argue that it could mean better/more efficient Airflow simply due to the fact that more area can have direct Airflow with fewer fans.

 

[Magic Carpet]

I bought this exactly 12 years ago. Still, one of my favorite PC cases in the house. Only 170mm in width though, I had to buy a top-down Noctua for this one. Old-school beige color!

 

[Lumathix]

Small does not mean no airflow.

I agree. But it's easier to get good air flow with more room. And some people like to put a ton of stuff in their boxes, so to say Full tower cases are a waste of space is fairly short sighted.

 

[sandorski]

I agree. But it's easier to get good air flow with more room. And some people like to put a ton of stuff in their boxes, so to say Full tower cases are a waste of space is fairly short sighted.

I don't think anyone has suggested that there is no Need for Full Tower Cases. There is however, a need for much smaller Cases for many and as such we wish there was more choice.

 

[Remobz]

I am glad someone started this thread.

First off, I am not a person that puts tons of things in my case. Never had.

I was thinking of getting the full tower Rosewill Thor V2 Gaming Case because I was told that it has better cooling than a mid tower case. I live in a very humid and hot tropical climate with lots of dust and figured that the Full tower case would better serve my needs cooling wise but still a waste of space.

Not sure what to get now?

 

[Zap]

Thanks for the info, Zap. Good to know. Looking forward to any pics you can share. Good luck on the build.

Here ya go!

it's easier to get good air flow with more room.

It's easier because manufacturers have had years to "perfect" the layout. Remember the early days of ATX where the front bezels were sealed and all airflow was through the side vent tube over the CPU? Yeah, those were the early days. Try building a modern gaming rig in one of those!

And some people like to put a ton of stuff in their boxes, so to say Full tower cases are a waste of space is fairly short sighted.

Of course. Buy a case based on needs as well as wants. Need to hold a bunch of hardware? Get a big case. Don't need to hold a bunch of hardware? Why use a big case?

My LAN party rig is small because I want it easier to bring in to LANs (single trip holding monitor, computer, bag of gear) and takes up less table space at LANs (some are crowded).

My main rig at home is in a Lian Li PC-8FIR which is a mid-tower case. It has an ATX motherboard, dual graphics cards, five drives, big tower cooler...

Different needs for the two systems. I would NOT want my main rig to be my LAN rig, just as I would NOT want my LAN rig to be my main rig.