Mormonism, LDS, I'm trying to learn about them

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: Rumpltzer
I'm from the South. Lots of Baptists in the South. Lots of Baptists who hate the Mormons for some reason. I don't get it.

Fundamentalist Baptists are known in many circles as the most hateful sect of Christianity. And nothing says "fundamentalism" like the South.

 

[Spamela]

Originally posted by: yukichigai

Originally posted by: Rumpltzer
I attended the LDS church with my ex for about four years. I've had all of the "lessons" presented by the missionaries.

I'll tell you that LDS is the most social and friendly church I've ever been to. Whenever I'm overseas and see missionaries (the two guys on bikes with the tie and white shirts), I ALWAYS talk to them. They're usually not pushy at all and they often seem to want to speak English with someone from "back home".

If you're serious about getting into it with the LDS, call or walk into ANY temple or grab a guy on a bike and tell them you're interested. They'll take your info and the two guys will show up at your place or call you. They'll take you through the "lessons" and then meet with you weekly or whatever until you're ready to convert or until you tell them to stop.

Be warned, though. Once they have your number, they WILL call. Even when you think they've forgotten about you, they'll call again.

Nice people.

Same holds true for Jehova's Witnesses. Mostly. Unfortunately the local church is -- or was anyway -- headed by a real asshat, and as such all the people picked to go door-to-door were also asshats.

Mormons are a little weird to me though. Not the religion itself -- though the excommunication frenzy that I've seen is pretty strange -- but their reaction to Catholicism(sp?). When I mention I'm Catholic, or at least that I was raised Catholic, they sort of shy away like I'm Satan embodied. Bizzare.

my co-worker is LDS & i'm Catholic. we have a deal that we don't try
to convert the other, but i have my crucifix ready to ward him off, just in case.

 

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: bobbybe01

Originally posted by: DougK62
An old friend of mine was LDS. He had to have surgery and during the surgery he would need to be given blood. He had to go to a fancy hospital in the southwest to get it done because they would give him plasma instead of blood. He said that getting blood was a sin. Can any LDS explain the reasoning for this?

I love how whenever anyone mentions LDS all the other people of different Christian denominations think that they have to blab about why they're right and everyone else is wrong. That's sad.

Actually you might be confusing that with the Jehovah's Witnesses. Many Mormons (and many prominent leaders in the LDS Church) are doctors. Giving/receiving blood in no way contradicts Mormon theology or practice.

Well crap on me. You're right - my friend is a Jehovah.

 

[VictorLazlo]

Originally posted by: Atomicus
Mormonism was founded by a MAN named Joseph Smith Jr. who claimed to be a modern-day prophet. Called Church of Latter Day Saint and believes that when one dies, they become a God-like spirit and have "celestial" sex (which is what their polygamy stems from).

No offense, but the more you look into it, the more absurd that crap should become. Don't get sucked in.

Polygamy dates back to the time when the Mormons first settled in Utah. It was a long journey from Illinois to Utah, and many of the pilgrims walked the entire way (in winter, no less). Many of the men died pulling hand carts across the plains. When they finally got settled, there was a disproportionate number of women to men. Plural marriages were allowed so that all the women had a roof over their heads. Once the population evened-out, the practice was banned.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: yukichigai
Mormons are a little weird to me though. Not the religion itself -- though the excommunication frenzy that I've seen is pretty strange -- but their reaction to Catholicism(sp?). When I mention I'm Catholic, or at least that I was raised Catholic, they sort of shy away like I'm Satan embodied. Bizzare.

In the Mormon book of the Doctrine and Convenants, Joseph Smith tells that he had a vision where Chirst told him that the Catholic church was corrupted with the "Mother of All Abominations".
Clearly, according to the Mormons, God has not yet forgiven the Catholic church for its grevious sins of the Dark Ages (indulgences, inquisitions, wars, empire in the name of God, etc.).
Otherwise, the 2 churchs are very similar in basic doctrine, although the Mormon church doesn't have any of the pomp and paganism that the Catholic church is rife with. The Mormon church also does not believe in such not-in-the-Bible garbage doctrines like Original Sin and Infant Damnation, to their unending credit.

 

[amcdonald]

Originally posted by: DougK62

Originally posted by: bobbybe01

Originally posted by: DougK62
An old friend of mine was LDS. He had to have surgery and during the surgery he would need to be given blood. He had to go to a fancy hospital in the southwest to get it done because they would give him plasma instead of blood. He said that getting blood was a sin. Can any LDS explain the reasoning for this?

I love how whenever anyone mentions LDS all the other people of different Christian denominations think that they have to blab about why they're right and everyone else is wrong. That's sad.

Actually you might be confusing that with the Jehovah's Witnesses. Many Mormons (and many prominent leaders in the LDS Church) are doctors. Giving/receiving blood in no way contradicts Mormon theology or practice.

Well crap on me. You're right - my friend is a Jehovah.

How dare you type G-d's name.

 

[styrafoam]

Originally posted by: bobbybe01

Originally posted by: Bassyhead

Originally posted by: MBony
I am trying to educate myself on this branch of Christianity and would like to know more about it.

I don't consider it a branch of Christianity.

That's good, as far as being a "branch" of Christianity. Mormons didn't break off from another church or sect, so I guess you are right. However, if you are saying that Mormons are not Christians, then I would have to strongly disagree with you.

They basicly pay lip sevice to christianity. Most christains would consider the book of mormon to fly in the face of the second commandment. I have never been to an lds function (countless weddings, funerals, baby blessings, etc) where the bible was quoted.

 

[Lazy8s]

PM me for some more info.

I went to an LDS church for a good while, learned as much as I could, hung out with the missionaries, dated an LDS chick, etc. etc.

The more and more I learned the less and less I liked to be honest. They have some REALLY cool aspects but the rest just wins out.


I found the people to be very inclusive but the religion (as a whole) to be extremely exclusive. I have some people who became very dear to me and took me in as their own while I was learning but when I learned enough to have some well-based questions I lost most every LDS friend that I had.

It's a great church for blind faith but if you want a mind of your own it's not for you. My g/f broke up with me when I asked how Jesus got into heaven without being married.

Stop reading here if you don't care about the question but the OP should find it interresting:

To get into heaven you have to meet a lot of requirements and one of them is being married. My question one day was "Who is God married to if everyone has to be married?"

The Answer:
Basically I got a "We don't know but he is." They said that somehow the Earth is our mother. When God blew into the dust we were "Born from the earth" like you are born by a woman. The earth caught on fire=it was baptised by fire. When the world flooded that was the earth being baptised by water. It was really wierd but I guess maybe it made a little sense. To me God being married to "Mother Earth" is kind of wierd. They admitted that no one knows for sure but there is a "Heavenly Mother" and I took that as that.


The REALLY interresting part was when I asked how Jesus was resurected and wentto heaven if he was never married. That question got me hung up on, the preacher asked me to leave his office so he could make a call, and my g/f broke up with me. Basically they don't believe Jesus was married cause then he would have had sex and such which they don't believe he did I don't think. Also, the bible makes NO mention of his marriage and for people who constantly quote the bible that's a big problem. But, an even bigger problem is if Jeses got into heaven without marrying a woman (they don't believe in homosexuality) then that means gays and single people go to heaven which turns their beliefs upside down.


There are a lot of other things I didn't like but I'll take all that to PMs if you want. Be careful though, even after you leave they will track you down to invite you back. They are nice about it but man it gets uncomfortable.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: DougK62

Originally posted by: bobbybe01

Originally posted by: DougK62
An old friend of mine was LDS. He had to have surgery and during the surgery he would need to be given blood. He had to go to a fancy hospital in the southwest to get it done because they would give him plasma instead of blood. He said that getting blood was a sin. Can any LDS explain the reasoning for this?

I love how whenever anyone mentions LDS all the other people of different Christian denominations think that they have to blab about why they're right and everyone else is wrong. That's sad.

Actually you might be confusing that with the Jehovah's Witnesses. Many Mormons (and many prominent leaders in the LDS Church) are doctors. Giving/receiving blood in no way contradicts Mormon theology or practice.

Well crap on me. You're right - my friend is a Jehovah.

Umm... yeah, the LDS Hospital in SLC is one of the best and most modern hospitals in the world... and church-owned. They do transplants and all. I seem to recall that one president of the Mormon church had open-heart surgery even a few years back, and that the surgeon who performed the operation was another one of the higher church leaders.

 

[SaltBoy]

Originally posted by: VictorLazlo

Originally posted by: Atomicus
Mormonism was founded by a MAN named Joseph Smith Jr. who claimed to be a modern-day prophet. Called Church of Latter Day Saint and believes that when one dies, they become a God-like spirit and have "celestial" sex (which is what their polygamy stems from).

No offense, but the more you look into it, the more absurd that crap should become. Don't get sucked in.

Polygamy dates back to the time when the Mormons first settled in Utah. It was a long journey from Illinois to Utah, and many of the pilgrims walked the entire way (in winter, no less). Many of the men died pulling hand carts across the plains. When they finally got settled, there was a disproportionate number of women to men. Plural marriages were allowed so that all the women had a roof over their heads. Once the population evened-out, the practice was banned.

Uh, I hate to say this, but I'm a Mormon, and even I know that's incorrect. Joseph Smith was the first polygamist, and he got nowhere near Utah.

<-- Willing to answer any questions you have, but I don't expect to be visiting the the forums for the rest of the week, cuz I'm going on VACATION! WOOHOO!

No, the mods aren't banning me. I'm going on a REAL vacation.

 

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: yukichigai
Mormons are a little weird to me though. Not the religion itself -- though the excommunication frenzy that I've seen is pretty strange -- but their reaction to Catholicism(sp?). When I mention I'm Catholic, or at least that I was raised Catholic, they sort of shy away like I'm Satan embodied. Bizzare.

In the Mormon book of the Doctrine and Convenants, Joseph Smith tells that he had a vision where Chirst told him that the Catholic church was corrupted with the "Mother of All Abominations".
Clearly, according to the Mormons, God has not yet forgiven the Catholic church for its grevious sins of the Dark Ages (indulgences, inquisitions, wars, empire in the name of God, etc.).
Otherwise, the 2 churchs are very similar in basic doctrine, although the Mormon church doesn't have any of the pomp and paganism that the Catholic church is rife with. The Mormon church also does not believe in such not-in-the-Bible garbage doctrines like Original Sin and Infant Damnation, to their unending credit.

Good job with that hating. You do Jebus proud.

 

[VictorLazlo]

Originally posted by: Lazy8s

To get into heaven you have to meet a lot of requirements and one of them is being married.

Almost. There are 3 levels of heaven, all of which kick ass. You only have to be married (in the temple) to get into the Celestial Kingdom, which is the highest level of heaven where you get to become like God.

 

[Lazy8s]

Originally posted by: SaltBoy

Originally posted by: VictorLazlo

Originally posted by: Atomicus
Mormonism was founded by a MAN named Joseph Smith Jr. who claimed to be a modern-day prophet. Called Church of Latter Day Saint and believes that when one dies, they become a God-like spirit and have "celestial" sex (which is what their polygamy stems from).

No offense, but the more you look into it, the more absurd that crap should become. Don't get sucked in.

Polygamy dates back to the time when the Mormons first settled in Utah. It was a long journey from Illinois to Utah, and many of the pilgrims walked the entire way (in winter, no less). Many of the men died pulling hand carts across the plains. When they finally got settled, there was a disproportionate number of women to men. Plural marriages were allowed so that all the women had a roof over their heads. Once the population evened-out, the practice was banned.

Uh, I hate to say this, but I'm a Mormon, and even I know that's incorrect. Joseph Smith was the first polygamist, and he got nowhere near Utah.

<-- Willing to answer any questions you have, but I don't expect to be visiting the the forums for the rest of the week, cuz I'm going on VACATION! WOOHOO!

No, the mods aren't banning me. I'm going on a REAL vacation.

Actually I asked the misionaries about polygomy (8 or 10 of the) and I always got EXACTLY the same answer he gave, I was going to give the same response but he beat me to it

 

[Lazy8s]

Originally posted by: VictorLazlo

Originally posted by: Lazy8s

To get into heaven you have to meet a lot of requirements and one of them is being married.

Almost. There are 3 levels of heaven, all of which kick ass. You only have to be married (in the temple) to get into the Celestial Kingdom, which is the highest level of heaven where you get to become like God.

Women have to be married men don't.

EDIT: Or men can be married (spiritualy now since it was banned on earth) to more than one woman, which is where polygomy still comes into play, but it's not about sex, it's because women have to be married to make the Celestial Kingdom.

Thank you for pointing that out.
I correct myself and you actually.

That was another complaint. I'm a guy so it doesn't apply to me but a woman's salvation is tied to the man she marries. The men can do it alone. It almost always forces traditional roles in the household. Plus there are rules like women have to have long hair that covers their neck but men's hair has to be short or it's a sin.


BTW b4 you flame me read your book of mormon and bible plz. I researched a LOT and brought up everything I could find. I'll start quoting if I have to but it takes too much time.

 

[azazyel]

I can't believe that there are so many morm0ns here. Kinda wish it wasn't such a busy day at work. Things that amuse me about Mormonism.

- The underwear

- The prevalence of "Satan" in their book

- The kill you with kindness routine

- The Missions

Wish I can go into more detail but I gotta check out for a while. Personally, I haven't had the best experiences with that cult, oops, I mean church.

 

[bobbybe01]

Polygamy dates back to the time when the Mormons first settled in Utah. It was a long journey from Illinois to Utah, and many of the pilgrims walked the entire way (in winter, no less). Many of the men died pulling hand carts across the plains. When they finally got settled, there was a disproportionate number of women to men. Plural marriages were allowed so that all the women had a roof over their heads. Once the population evened-out, the practice was banned.

Not true. Polygamy started a few years before the pioneers left for Utah. But what you said does make sense and I tend to agree with that. Women back then were not allowed to buy/own property, either.

In the Mormon book of the Doctrine and Convenants, Joseph Smith tells that he had a vision where Chirst told him that the Catholic church was corrupted with the "Mother of All Abominations".

Actually, Joseph Smith was told that: "all their creeds were an abomination in his sight." There's a difference. Please refer to the Doctrine and Covenants section 10 (here) verses 52-54. Note the key phrase here: "Now I do not say this to destroy my church, but I say this to build up my church." This was documented in the summer of 1828, about two years before the LDS church was officially organized. The LDS faith believes that although the original church of Christ in the New Testament fell away, thanks to the Catholic church and others; the Christian faith was kept alive and therefore, when the time was right, the restoration of all truth could take place.

Was Joseph Smith perfect? Nope. Check it out here: Text

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: DougK62

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: yukichigai
Mormons are a little weird to me though. Not the religion itself -- though the excommunication frenzy that I've seen is pretty strange -- but their reaction to Catholicism(sp?). When I mention I'm Catholic, or at least that I was raised Catholic, they sort of shy away like I'm Satan embodied. Bizzare.

In the Mormon book of the Doctrine and Convenants, Joseph Smith tells that he had a vision where Chirst told him that the Catholic church was corrupted with the "Mother of All Abominations".
Clearly, according to the Mormons, God has not yet forgiven the Catholic church for its grevious sins of the Dark Ages (indulgences, inquisitions, wars, empire in the name of God, etc.).
Otherwise, the 2 churchs are very similar in basic doctrine, although the Mormon church doesn't have any of the pomp and paganism that the Catholic church is rife with. The Mormon church also does not believe in such not-in-the-Bible garbage doctrines like Original Sin and Infant Damnation, to their unending credit.

Good job with that hating. You do Jebus proud.

Care to explain where I did any "hating"? I stated simple facts which you could look up yourself. The only opinion I stated is where I dislike churches that believe that a just and all-loving God condemns infants who die to everlasting Hell simply because some priest didn't pray for them. The Protestant reformation occurred for a reason, pal. The Catholic church had enslaved all of Europe under dogma. I suggest you look it up.

Oh yeah, and Lazy8s, one thing that all Christian churches miss is that according to Hebrew Law at the time of Jesus, all rabbis were required to be 30 years of age and married before they could teach the Law. And we know that (except for a brief event when he was 12) Jesus didn't start teaching until he was 30...

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: Vic
In the Mormon book of the Doctrine and Convenants, Joseph Smith tells that he had a vision where Chirst told him that the Catholic church was corrupted with the "Mother of All Abominations".
Clearly, according to the Mormons, God has not yet forgiven the Catholic church for its grevious sins of the Dark Ages (indulgences, inquisitions, wars, empire in the name of God, etc.).
Otherwise, the 2 churchs are very similar in basic doctrine, although the Mormon church doesn't have any of the pomp and paganism that the Catholic church is rife with. The Mormon church also does not believe in such not-in-the-Bible garbage doctrines like Original Sin and Infant Damnation, to their unending credit.

So you think if I tell them that I haven't forgiven the Catholic church yet they'll ease up a little?

By the by, I'm pretty sure Infant Damnation was done away with in Vatican II. (The writ that said, among other things, that the Jews didn't kill Jesus) From what I understand it was another scheme like Alms(sp?) that was cooked up during the Dark Ages so priests could squeeze money out of God-fearing people.

 

[SaltBoy]

Originally posted by: Lazy8s

Originally posted by: VictorLazlo

Originally posted by: Lazy8s

To get into heaven you have to meet a lot of requirements and one of them is being married.

Almost. There are 3 levels of heaven, all of which kick ass. You only have to be married (in the temple) to get into the Celestial Kingdom, which is the highest level of heaven where you get to become like God.

Women have to be married men don't.

Incorrect. VictorLazlo has it pretty much right.

 

[waitman]

Originally posted by: styrafoam

Originally posted by: waitman
I was born in the LDS hospital in SLC, baptized in the church and am still listed on the rolls, even though I requested that I be removed. I just never believed the doctrine, so contradictory to the King James bible they use. Have lots of relatives still in the church, a brother and sister even and we never communicate. Oh well,too bad but whatever floats the boat you know.

They will never take you off you know. My wife is still on, who hasn't been in about 15 years, as I'm sure all of my children are (who were never members). My father served as a deacon in a Preysbeterian church here in the SLC area, one of the things he dealt with in that time was new members and getting their records transferred. Every lds person who attempted to join basicly had their requests for record transfers ignored but had wave after wave of visitors to their home to councel them on the gravity of the decision they were making.

Yes they came to see me Probably 20 years ago and told me I would have to go before their tribunal and they would decide if my name would be removed. I made it perfectly clear that no matter what they said or did it had absolutely no meaning to me. They haven't visited me since. They also asked why I was baptized if I didn't believe the doctrine. I was 8 years old at the time and scared more of what dad and mom would do to me if I refused.

It don't really matter if they keep my name on the rolls, don't mean a thing. I also have 2 brothers and 2 sisters that don't believe it, so I do at least have some family left. They are also listed on the rolls. Wonder how many actually listed are practicing members of the LDS church. In my family you don't call them Mormons that is an insult, they are latter-day-saints.

 

[Atomicus]

lol you don't get it. He was a regular guy who interpreted the bible differently and wrote his own perverted version! He then published it called "Book of Mormon". I don't recall prophets having to publish their own works, rather their own experiences were documented by people of the faith. It was obvious that other Christians knew he was a liar and a blasphemer, thus keeping his tainted words from entering the real Bible. That is the most probable cause for him to publish his book.

He and his followers were even charged with fraud, larceny, and other crimes! And you know what? THEY FLED! Google, I don't care where you get it from, read a biography, THEY FLED FROM PRISON! He must've been too righteous for jail right? The bible tells you that there is the law of the land and law up in heaven and that you must obey the law of the land unless it doesn't oppose the heavenly one.

OK, enough of this. It's obvious some of you are those people who are WAY too opened minded for your own good. He and his bunch were crooks; legal evidence of it and them actually evading the law unlawfully is a clear cut sign of their convictions.

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: azazyel
I can't believe that there are so many morm0ns here. Kinda wish it wasn't such a busy day at work. Things that amuse me about Mormonism.

- The underwear

Okay, I don't care how busy you are, you have to explain this one to me.

 

[bobbybe01]

Originally posted by: azazyel
I can't believe that there are so many morm0ns here. Kinda wish it wasn't such a busy day at work. Things that amuse me about Mormonism.

- The underwear

- The prevalence of "Satan" in their book

- The kill you with kindness routine

- The Missions

Wish I can go into more detail but I gotta check out for a while. Personally, I haven't had the best experiences with that cult, oops, I mean church.

- Why do you care about our underwear, anyway? Do you have some sort of fetish with underwear? Let's talk about your underwear while we're at it.

- Huh? What are you talking about?

- What's wrong with being kind? Didn't Jesus say we should love one another?

- And what's wrong with devoting a year and a half or two years, without pay, to a cause you believe in? Try me, buddy. I'm sorry you haven't had the best experiences with the church, but you can't blame it on all Mormons.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: styrafoam
They basicly pay lip sevice to christianity. Most christains would consider the book of mormon to fly in the face of the second commandment. I have never been to an lds function (countless weddings, funerals, baby blessings, etc) where the bible was quoted.

I'm really having trouble with how the Book of Mormon might be construed as idolatry. And in my experience (an entire childhood devoted to the LDS church it seems, now half my life away), the Bible was constantly quoted and referenced to.
Now those Fundies who believe in the literal and infallible Word of God in the Bible, some of them cross the line to idolatry IMO.

 

[SaltBoy]

Originally posted by: Atomicus

OK, enough of this. It's obvious some of you are those people who are WAY too opened minded for your own good. He and his bunch were crooks; legal evidence of it and them actually evading the law unlawfully is a clear cut sign of their convictions.

And Jacob played favoritism by making Joseph his "favorite" son, and Moses killed a man, and Elisha killed a bunch of kids for making fun of his hair, and Peter denied Christ three times, and so on, and so on...

If what you say is true, then so what? Nowhere does the LDS doctrine say that the prophet must be infallible.