More than 1 in every 100 Americans now behind bars..

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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
49,615
12,209
136
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Incarceration is a $$$$ business. The rampant cronyism, corruption, and profiteering of the entire criminal 'justice' system in this country is hopelessly devoid of reform. Trying to apply common sense doesn't work when there's not even an attempt at fairness or logic.
What it really is, besides that minority of the prison population that genuinely belongs there (murderers, rapists, etc.) is a massive "make-work" scam that has fully infiltrated and corrupted our justice system. Instead of justice, we pay a portion of the workforce to keep an even larger portion OUT of the workforce.
Interesting perspective on a tragic aspect of our modern society.
That is IMO what it's all about though.

First, we have the drug offenders forced out of the workplace. And not just a few. Millions. If not currently incarcerated, then through criminal record, drug screenings, etc.
Now, notice that the discussion has switched to illegal immigration, and what has the nativist and racist movements in America ever been but a front for protectionism? "These WOPs/ blacks/illegals are stealing our jobs!"

Well hey, buddy, maybe you don't deserve your job if some beautiful ray of sunshine can do it better than you for less, eh? This is America. You have to earn your keep here.
 

AMDZen

Lifer
Apr 15, 2004
12,639
0
76
Originally posted by: Jeff7
Legalize marijuana, and watch a considerable percentage of them walk free. Prohibition failed once, why do people seem to think it'll work again?
Exactly
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
31,796
2
0
Originally posted by: m1ldslide1
Originally posted by: Queasy
Originally posted by: Safeway
Originally posted by: Queasy
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Queasy
Originally posted by: paulxcook
Originally posted by: Queasy
30% of prisoners in federal prisons are illegal aliens. That sounds like a good place to start.
Is that true? Holy crap. That's ridiculous.
ayep. Estimates are any where between 29 and 35%. Worse in states like California.
The federal prison is 201,105 -- Text

Or 8.7% of the total. Making your 30% illegal inmate figure become roughly 2.6% of the actual prison population in the US. Nice try though.

Thank you, drive thru.
:confused: You think the state and local prisons are completely devoid of illegal aliens then?
"30% of prisoners in federal prisons are illegal aliens. That sounds like a good place to start." -Queasy
Yeah, and? He's not disputing my 30% number. He's saying that it is only a small part of the total US population. Yet he throws that out as if there aren't illegal aliens in state and local jails.

According to this CNN report, the number of illegal aliens in US prisons is over 200k.
I don't mean to speak for Vic, but I think that it was clearly demonstrated that the 30% number was paranoid BS.

1 out of 100 americans is 3,000,000. I'm taking that figure as true based solely on the thread title.

200,000 illegals / 3,000,000 prison pop = roughly 6.7% of the prison population.

When you fudge statistics by that much, I start to wonder what your motivations are?
Dear God. I'm not being paranoid. I'm not being xenophobic. I'm simply trying to say that if our prison population is growing so much and someone wants to solve the problem, then perhaps we need to start with deporting the illegal aliens since they shouldn't even be here to begin with and it will ease some of the crowding problems.

I'm done with this thread since trying to make this simple common sense point I've been called xenophobic, dumb and a right-wing Rush listener via PM.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
358
126
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Incarceration is a $$$$ business. The rampant cronyism, corruption, and profiteering of the entire criminal 'justice' system in this country is hopelessly devoid of reform. Trying to apply common sense doesn't work when there's not even an attempt at fairness or logic.
What it really is, besides that minority of the prison population that genuinely belongs there (murderers, rapists, etc.) is a massive "make-work" scam that has fully infiltrated and corrupted our justice system. Instead of justice, we pay a portion of the workforce to keep an even larger portion OUT of the workforce.
Interesting perspective on a tragic aspect of our modern society.
That is IMO what it's all about though.

First, we have the drug offenders forced out of the workplace. And not just a few. Millions. If not currently incarcerated, then through criminal record, drug screenings, etc.
Now, notice that the discussion has switched to illegal immigration, and what has the nativist and racist movements in America ever been but a front for protectionism? "These WOPs/ blacks/illegals are stealing our jobs!"

Well hey, buddy, maybe you don't deserve your job if some beautiful ray of sunshine can do it better than you for less, eh? This is America. You have to earn your keep here.
while I definitely agree citizens need to do more to keep their own jobs, or work in general.... illegals don't deserve to be offered jobs, because they don't belong here. And companies willing to pay illegals are only doing it so the company are doing more harm than good too... keeping more money to themselves, thus less to able-bodied people to spend on economy. No taxes, so they are screwing the government. Likely the company doesn't tell the government about their profits because they are paying their 'employees' under the table.
Oh, and all this while the illegals get to enjoy our social programs.
this problem needs to be cracked down on, soon.
 

m1ldslide1

Platinum Member
Feb 20, 2006
2,321
0
0
Originally posted by: destrekor
while I definitely agree citizens need to do more to keep their own jobs, or work in general.... illegals don't deserve to be offered jobs, because they don't belong here. And companies willing to pay illegals are only doing it so the company are doing more harm than good too... keeping more money to themselves, thus less to able-bodied people to spend on economy. No taxes, so they are screwing the government. Likely the company doesn't tell the government about their profits because they are paying their 'employees' under the table.
Oh, and all this while the illegals get to enjoy our social programs.
this problem needs to be cracked down on, soon.
If what you're saying is true, if we really crack down and deport all of the illegals, then if a company is dependent on cheap labor what's to stop it from a) going out of business due to increased OH or even b) relocating to where they can get the cheap labor? Ultimately you have more unemployment, higher crime, knee-jerk reactions from politicians who build more prisons, and the cycle continues. All I'm trying to say is that this issue is far more complex than illegals.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
49,615
12,209
136
Originally posted by: destrekor
while I definitely agree citizens need to do more to keep their own jobs, or work in general.... illegals don't deserve to be offered jobs, because they don't belong here. And companies willing to pay illegals are only doing it so the company are doing more harm than good too... keeping more money to themselves, thus less to able-bodied people to spend on economy. No taxes, so they are screwing the government. Likely the company doesn't tell the government about their profits because they are paying their 'employees' under the table.
Oh, and all this while the illegals get to enjoy our social programs.
this problem needs to be cracked down on, soon.
I won't argue except to say that you're wrong about the paying no taxes part.

And I agree that the law should be upheld so long as it remains the law. However, this is a democracy, and the law is not immutable or set in stone. It can be changed, and it should be changed when it doesn't work.
And the issue here is that you have a problem created by the law. Unlike say murder or rape, it is a problem that wouldn't exist except for the law that makes it impossible for these people to come here legally, that forces them to break it.
So your solution, to "crack down" on a law that already doesn't work, is -- in a word -- unfeasible.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
49,615
12,209
136
Originally posted by: m1ldslide1
If what you're saying is true, if we really crack down and deport all of the illegals, then if a company is dependent on cheap labor what's to stop it from a) going out of business due to increased OH or even b) relocating to where they can get the cheap labor? Ultimately you have more unemployment, higher crime, knee-jerk reactions from politicians who build more prisons, and the cycle continues. All I'm trying to say is that this issue is far more complex than illegals.
The problem is one that has built itself into our political system through the special interests. What politician can vote for increasing or removing the immigration quotas when the unions and labor groups will end his career for it? What brave congressperson can vote against the war on terror when it means that the defense contractor in his district will have to lay off a number of his well-paid and voting constituents? What noble representative can propose a new solution in the war on crime when it would mean losing out on those precious federal dollars to build that new prison? And so forth.
 

soonerproud

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2007
1,874
0
0
Originally posted by: SpunkyJones
I read it as 99% of the people in the country are not breaking the law.
No, just 99% of Americans are smart enough not to get caught.

We all have broken a law that could land us in jail at one time or another.
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
I think it's great, less punk ass jerks on the streets=a better day for pliablemoose.

2 of my co-workers have kids in prison, it was the best place for them.



 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I think it's great, less punk ass jerks on the streets=a better day for pliablemoose
As long as you're happy paying for their room/board, food and health care.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
49,615
12,209
136
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I think it's great, less punk ass jerks on the streets=a better day for pliablemoose
As long as you're happy paying for their room/board, food and health care.
Who says conservatives are against socialism?
 

m1ldslide1

Platinum Member
Feb 20, 2006
2,321
0
0
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I think it's great, less punk ass jerks on the streets=a better day for pliablemoose
As long as you're happy paying for their room/board, food and health care.
Who says conservatives are against socialism?
:laugh:

Pretty soon we'll have universal health care for all of the poor and unemployed.
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
Sooo..

With those stats, some of you all should have family members in prison, anyone wanna fess up?
 

soonerproud

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2007
1,874
0
0
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Sooo..

With those stats, some of you all should have family members in prison, anyone wanna fess up?
I have an Uncle that spent nine years in the penn for having sex with a 12 year old girl. I have a cousin in Prison for stealing trailer and running from the cops and crashing it.

I'm sure I have more since I have a very large family. (My mom had 14 brothers and sisters and my dad had nine. I one time counted at least 80 first cousins. The Uncle that went to prison has 20 kids with 16 different women.)
 

theMan

Diamond Member
Mar 17, 2005
4,386
0
0
Personally, I won't be able to sleep at night unless everyone except me is in jail. I guess you could say I'm a little introverted no?
 

Kirby

Lifer
Apr 10, 2006
12,032
2
0
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Sooo..

With those stats, some of you all should have family members in prison, anyone wanna fess up?
Not a relative, but back at home a guy who raped his daughter lived down the street from us. My mom ran over his dog.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
49,615
12,209
136
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Sooo..

With those stats, some of you all should have family members in prison, anyone wanna fess up?
I have a cousin once-removed (something like that, an aunt's grandson) who I've never met sitting on death row for murder.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
49,615
12,209
136
Originally posted by: fisher
speed up executions.
Sounds great except death row only makes up 0.1% of the total prison pop.
 

badkarma1399

Senior member
Feb 21, 2007
689
2
0
Originally posted by: K1052
Yet more proof that you can't legislate problems away by mandating tougher sentencing.

How about we abandon the totally useless War on Drugs as a good start to reducing both crime and our prison populations?
QFT

Jail for victimless crimes? Ridiculous. All it does is waste money and worsens the behavior/attitudes of those convicted. Laws should be about protecting the rights of others, and not enforcing another's personal view of morality.

Although whats worse for me is this statement:

It said the United States also is the leader in inmates per capita (750 per 100,000 people), ahead of Russia (628 per 100,000)
More than Russia? I have a hard time believing our crime rates are really worse than that of the Soviet bloc nations. I think we've lost sight of the right priorities, providing we ever had them in the first place.
 

soonerproud

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2007
1,874
0
0
Originally posted by: badkarma1399
Originally posted by: K1052
Yet more proof that you can't legislate problems away by mandating tougher sentencing.

How about we abandon the totally useless War on Drugs as a good start to reducing both crime and our prison populations?
QFT

Jail for victimless crimes? Ridiculous. All it does is waste money and worsens the behavior/attitudes of those convicted. Laws should be about protecting the rights of others, and not enforcing another's personal view of morality.

Although whats worse for me is this statement:

It said the United States also is the leader in inmates per capita (750 per 100,000 people), ahead of Russia (628 per 100,000)
More than Russia? I have a hard time believing our crime rates are really worse than that of the Soviet bloc nations. I think we've lost sight of the right priorities, providing we ever had them in the first place.
People disappear in Russia or die under mysterious circumstances quite more frequently than in the US for political reasons.
 

SinfulWeeper

Diamond Member
Sep 2, 2000
4,566
11
81
There is something to be said about a good ol fashioned flogging. Reduce all current jail sentences 90% for class A felonies and below. Flog them to the point of losing conscience, and flog them more the next day. Repeat offenders get more floggings. Watch Americas crime rate drop to an all time low since the 50's.
 

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