More reasons to bust up the unions

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
I was raised by teachers and I can make a blanket statement from general life experience. Teachers, by in large, want to teach. People don't just show up to schools and say hey I want to teach and get jobs. It's a societal issue where parents treat schools like tax funded day care. Granted good schools have good students who have good parents. Want to know way a school is "bad", go look at the student's home life.

It's true most teachers just want to teach. But all of them want to milk the system for all it's worth and maximize their income and power through the unions.

Everyone wants to milk the system for all its worth. Look at the bankers. Its silly to expect teachers to be any different.

Whenever hear words like these I know I'm hearing an ignorant swine boldly projecting out onto the world exactly what he really is. It is you who would milk the system. You have no idea about anybody else.

Good catch I agree hardily. Sammy seems a tad simple and not in a good way.

LOL. Speak for yourself. I see you gunning for an Iran war in another thread, trying to justify American military might as a solution for everything.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
I was raised by teachers and I can make a blanket statement from general life experience. Teachers, by in large, want to teach. People don't just show up to schools and say hey I want to teach and get jobs. It's a societal issue where parents treat schools like tax funded day care. Granted good schools have good students who have good parents. Want to know way a school is "bad", go look at the student's home life.

It's true most teachers just want to teach. But all of them want to milk the system for all it's worth and maximize their income and power through the unions.

Everyone wants to milk the system for all its worth. Look at the bankers. Its silly to expect teachers to be any different.

Whenever hear words like these I know I'm hearing an ignorant swine boldly projecting out onto the world exactly what he really is. It is you who would milk the system. You have no idea about anybody else.

Good catch I agree hardily. Sammy seems a tad simple and not in a good way.

Only a person with little self worth would not fight to exploit every advantage possible to maximize their compensation for work.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
I was raised by teachers and I can make a blanket statement from general life experience. Teachers, by in large, want to teach. People don't just show up to schools and say hey I want to teach and get jobs. It's a societal issue where parents treat schools like tax funded day care. Granted good schools have good students who have good parents. Want to know way a school is "bad", go look at the student's home life.

It's true most teachers just want to teach. But all of them want to milk the system for all it's worth and maximize their income and power through the unions.

Everyone wants to milk the system for all its worth. Look at the bankers. Its silly to expect teachers to be any different.

Whenever hear words like these I know I'm hearing an ignorant swine boldly projecting out onto the world exactly what he really is. It is you who would milk the system. You have no idea about anybody else.

Good catch I agree hardily. Sammy seems a tad simple and not in a good way.

Only a person with little self worth would not fight to exploit every advantage possible to maximize their compensation for work.

This.

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
I was raised by teachers and I can make a blanket statement from general life experience. Teachers, by in large, want to teach. People don't just show up to schools and say hey I want to teach and get jobs. It's a societal issue where parents treat schools like tax funded day care. Granted good schools have good students who have good parents. Want to know way a school is "bad", go look at the student's home life.

It's true most teachers just want to teach. But all of them want to milk the system for all it's worth and maximize their income and power through the unions.

Everyone wants to milk the system for all its worth. Look at the bankers. Its silly to expect teachers to be any different.

Whenever hear words like these I know I'm hearing an ignorant swine boldly projecting out onto the world exactly what he really is. It is you who would milk the system. You have no idea about anybody else.

Good catch I agree hardily. Sammy seems a tad simple and not in a good way.

LOL. Speak for yourself. I see you gunning for an Iran war in another thread, trying to justify American military might as a solution for everything.

You cannot for the life of you get past that veil of idiocy. Please quote me!

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: fisheerman

When will it ever end.............

Teachers unions have entirely to much control in this country.
This isn't some union trying to get additional compensation from some private company this union is milking us "the tax payer" dry.

Link

So, would you have them canned from their jobs before their cases are hear? Would YOU want to be fired before you had a chance to be heard because you were accused of something?

Is there a problem? Hell, yes!

Is your rant against "unions" valid? HELL, NO!

 

[Baked]

Old news. There was an episode on This American Life about this subject a while back. You can listen to the potcast here for free.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

It is difficult to pin this one entirely on the unions. There is so much bureaucracy and red-tape involved...administrators, trial lawyers, union reps, etc. Yes, the unions are part of the problem, but they aren't the only factor in this situation.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Originally posted by: EXman

You cannot for the life of you get past that veil of idiocy. Please quote me!

I apologize my veil of idiocy prevents me from seeing the rational arguments contained between the insults you hurl at me in your posts.

 

[babylon5]

No wonder American K12 education is #1 in the world!!

 

[PrinceofWands]

You don't like it, streamline the legal system. That's where the big issue is. None of those teachers have done ANYTHING wrong to deserve firing until a court of law says they have.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: fisheerman
we have got to get some competition with the public school system.

Everyone I know that can afford it (some are putting off retirement) are sending their kids to private school. Even as they are paying for public schools and this kind of stuff with outrageous taxes.

And everyone I know is sending their kids to public schools. Public schools are of variable quality. There's a reason why similar houses in towns with good school systems cost more.

You are missing the point. Even Good public schools are just that. Good. Why can't we strive for more than just good? That sounds like a good idea.

You can't expect quality education to exist in a vacuum. In this case the vacuum is the students desire to learn. Without students that are excited about getting an education you can have the most motivated qualified teachers in the world and they'd make zero difference.

It's not the public school's fault that parents are raising lazy children.

Blanket statements don't keep you warm at night. You should be ashamed of yourself for blaming children and parents in that broad opinion. Are there those kids and parents out there? Of course! But is it a huge majority of them? Not a chance in hell. Kids are curious by nature.

You don't work much with kids lately I take it?

 

[babylon5]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
You don't like it, streamline the legal system. That's where the big issue is. None of those teachers have done ANYTHING wrong to deserve firing until a court of law says they have.

Why can't private sector copy this effective model?

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: fisheerman
we have got to get some competition with the public school system.

Everyone I know that can afford it (some are putting off retirement) are sending their kids to private school. Even as they are paying for public schools and this kind of stuff with outrageous taxes.

And everyone I know is sending their kids to public schools. Public schools are of variable quality. There's a reason why similar houses in towns with good school systems cost more.

You are missing the point. Even Good public schools are just that. Good. Why can't we strive for more than just good? That sounds like a good idea.

You can't expect quality education to exist in a vacuum. In this case the vacuum is the students desire to learn. Without students that are excited about getting an education you can have the most motivated qualified teachers in the world and they'd make zero difference.

It's not the public school's fault that parents are raising lazy children.

Blanket statements don't keep you warm at night. You should be ashamed of yourself for blaming children and parents in that broad opinion. Are there those kids and parents out there? Of course! But is it a huge majority of them? Not a chance in hell. Kids are curious by nature.

You don't work much with kids lately I take it?

You don't know how wrong you are...
They said the same thing about gen-Xers and most of the generations before that. And a lot of us are doing ok.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Unions should be illegal for public entities, PERIOD.

So you'd take away their right to organize?

Disclaimer: Several members of my family are / were teachers.

Unions have their place. Without the organized labor of this strike the state would have likely continued to ignore them. Unions only become a problem when they get too powerful and run companies / states into the ground, but that can be said for many different types of entities.

Currently local officials abuse the teachers more than the state in that they waste so much money on unneeded administrative positions for their buddies in buildings far away from any student and perks for themselves. Latest Blackberry for everyone in the admin office and lets build a new glorious admin building because we hired so many middle managers and they do not want to work close to a school near students!

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
I was raised by teachers and I can make a blanket statement from general life experience. Teachers, by in large, want to teach. People don't just show up to schools and say hey I want to teach and get jobs. It's a societal issue where parents treat schools like tax funded day care. Granted good schools have good students who have good parents. Want to know way a school is "bad", go look at the student's home life.

It's true most teachers just want to teach. But all of them want to milk the system for all it's worth and maximize their income and power through the unions.

Everyone wants to milk the system for all its worth. Look at the bankers. Its silly to expect teachers to be any different.

Whenever hear words like these I know I'm hearing an ignorant swine boldly projecting out onto the world exactly what he really is. It is you who would milk the system. You have no idea about anybody else.

Good catch I agree hardily. Sammy seems a tad simple and not in a good way.

Only a person with little self worth would not fight to exploit every advantage possible to maximize their compensation for work.

This.

I believe in working hard and being paid well for it. I believe that I am worth a good wage. I want my boss to think the same. I do the right thing with out Milking anything.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
I was raised by teachers and I can make a blanket statement from general life experience. Teachers, by in large, want to teach. People don't just show up to schools and say hey I want to teach and get jobs. It's a societal issue where parents treat schools like tax funded day care. Granted good schools have good students who have good parents. Want to know way a school is "bad", go look at the student's home life.

It's true most teachers just want to teach. But all of them want to milk the system for all it's worth and maximize their income and power through the unions.

BS. Teachers are generally their because they have 'calling' personalities. Those types are generally willing to work for FAR less than business types who seem to care a great deal more about money.

Look at it this way: to teach high school in Washington right now I have to get a degree in what I'm going to teach (actually in EVERYTHING I want to be able to teach), a degree in education, a Master's degree within five years, and a bunch of extra classes for certification. So if I just want to be able to teach in two fields to increase my marketability I have to get the equivalent of 4 degrees (one of them Master's level). For doing all that, and for putting up with the kids, and all the administrative BS, I'm going to enter the workforce making $40k if I'm VERY lucky. After 30+ years of doing it, and having my Doctorate, I'll be VERY lucky to get close to six figures a year. Does that really sound like someone who's taking the job to 'milk it'?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: babylon5

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
You don't like it, streamline the legal system. That's where the big issue is. None of those teachers have done ANYTHING wrong to deserve firing until a court of law says they have.

Why can't private sector copy this effective model?

Personally I'd love to see it. I'm fully behind total protections for workers. In my opinion businesses are in the wrong far more often than they're in the right with regards to firings.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: fisheerman
we have got to get some competition with the public school system.

Everyone I know that can afford it (some are putting off retirement) are sending their kids to private school. Even as they are paying for public schools and this kind of stuff with outrageous taxes.

And everyone I know is sending their kids to public schools. Public schools are of variable quality. There's a reason why similar houses in towns with good school systems cost more.

You are missing the point. Even Good public schools are just that. Good. Why can't we strive for more than just good? That sounds like a good idea.

You can't expect quality education to exist in a vacuum. In this case the vacuum is the students desire to learn. Without students that are excited about getting an education you can have the most motivated qualified teachers in the world and they'd make zero difference.

It's not the public school's fault that parents are raising lazy children.

Blanket statements don't keep you warm at night. You should be ashamed of yourself for blaming children and parents in that broad opinion. Are there those kids and parents out there? Of course! But is it a huge majority of them? Not a chance in hell. Kids are curious by nature.

You don't work much with kids lately I take it?

You don't know how wrong you are...
They said the same thing about gen-Xers and most of the generations before that. And a lot of us are doing ok.

Between having a kid (and therefore being exposed to their friends), and entering the teaching profession I not only see kids first-hand, I read about studies regarding them. There has been a significant and measurable shift in student dedication to learning...yes, it isn't all their fault (parental issues, family unit fracturing, media saturation of culture with short-span stimulation, etc). However the end result is that it's EXTREMELY difficult to educate kids today, especially with how easy it is for kids or parents to throw a wrench in the cogs.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
I was raised by teachers and I can make a blanket statement from general life experience. Teachers, by in large, want to teach. People don't just show up to schools and say hey I want to teach and get jobs. It's a societal issue where parents treat schools like tax funded day care. Granted good schools have good students who have good parents. Want to know way a school is "bad", go look at the student's home life.

It's true most teachers just want to teach. But all of them want to milk the system for all it's worth and maximize their income and power through the unions.

Everyone wants to milk the system for all its worth. Look at the bankers. Its silly to expect teachers to be any different.

Whenever hear words like these I know I'm hearing an ignorant swine boldly projecting out onto the world exactly what he really is. It is you who would milk the system. You have no idea about anybody else.

Good catch I agree hardily. Sammy seems a tad simple and not in a good way.

Only a person with little self worth would not fight to exploit every advantage possible to maximize their compensation for work.

This.

Two swine. People with self worth exploit nothing. You would know that if either of you had any.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
I was raised by teachers and I can make a blanket statement from general life experience. Teachers, by in large, want to teach. People don't just show up to schools and say hey I want to teach and get jobs. It's a societal issue where parents treat schools like tax funded day care. Granted good schools have good students who have good parents. Want to know way a school is "bad", go look at the student's home life.

It's true most teachers just want to teach. But all of them want to milk the system for all it's worth and maximize their income and power through the unions.

Everyone wants to milk the system for all its worth. Look at the bankers. Its silly to expect teachers to be any different.

Whenever hear words like these I know I'm hearing an ignorant swine boldly projecting out onto the world exactly what he really is. It is you who would milk the system. You have no idea about anybody else.

Good catch I agree hardily. Sammy seems a tad simple and not in a good way.

Only a person with little self worth would not fight to exploit every advantage possible to maximize their compensation for work.

This.

Two swine. People with self worth exploit nothing. You would know that if either of you had any.

So I should choose to be a doormat for the sake of your opinion of me? I prefer to be an active agent in achieving my goals rather than a cork bobbing upon the ocean.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Modelworks
I had a drafting teacher back in high school, this was before computers we used paper and pencils to draft, who would walk into the classroom , write a page number on the board, walk over to his desk, tell everyone 'you got any questions , come ask me', then put his feet on the desk, lean back , and go to sleep. Everyone would get an A , the only test he gave were open book.

Amazingly I still learned a lot in that class, although I did it on my own without the teacher , just read the book.

Teachers like that need to be fired.

Jesus, did you ever ask him to teach? You need to be fired, I think. Personally, I was such an avid learner my teachers were kept wide awake.

Ask him to teach ? We had a hard enough time waking him up when we wanted to ask a question
Almost everyone in the class did nothing but goof off. It was well known around the school that it was an easy class .

You don't know how to ask questions. My first question would have been how people prevent being lobotomized by a pencil that got jammed up their nose from falling out of a chair in their sleep and my next question would have been can I have a new pencil cause this one's got a ah heck on it.

 

[JSt0rm]

UHC is in fact the fastest way to bust up unions. How much money would we save as businesses and as taxpayers? So we throw 1 industry under the bus, nobody likes them anyhow.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: fisheerman
When will it ever end.............

Teachers unions have entirely to much control in this country.
This isn't some union trying to get additional compensation from some private company this union is milking us "the tax payer" dry.

Link

Busting up the unions does not sound like a reasonable response to having 700 idle NYC teachers.

Do you live in NYC?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Siddhartha

Originally posted by: fisheerman
When will it ever end.............

Teachers unions have entirely to much control in this country.
This isn't some union trying to get additional compensation from some private company this union is milking us "the tax payer" dry.

Link

Busting up the unions does not sound like a reasonable response to having 700 idle NYC teachers.

Do you live in NYC?

Maybe we could hear the cases here on Anandtech. Fire any teacher we don't like and jail any student we feel brought false charges. The Motherboard Forum would be a perfect place.

 

[imported_gardener]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Unions should be illegal for public entities, PERIOD.

So you'd take away their right to organize?

Disclaimer: Several members of my family are / were teachers.

Unions have their place. Without the organized labor of this strike the state would have likely continued to ignore them. Unions only become a problem when they get too powerful and run companies / states into the ground, but that can be said for many different types of entities.

Currently local officials abuse the teachers more than the state in that they waste so much money on unneeded administrative positions for their buddies in buildings far away from any student and perks for themselves. Latest Blackberry for everyone in the admin office and lets build a new glorious admin building because we hired so many middle managers and they do not want to work close to a school near students!

I agree with you that public education hq management is a waste of money, but that has nothing to do with unions, and I think you would agree that teachers are NOT overpaid. My wife had 15 years experience, a Masters in Education, was the head of the history department at one of Seattle s largest high schools, and made a measily $45.

Nationally, over the past 30 years the balance that once existed has shifted away from unions, due to the work of the RNC, the Chamber of Commerce, and DLC republicrats like Clinton. As a result we have lost our industrial base as companies shipped jobs to 3rd world countries. Private sector membership is down to about 9% of the workforce, public sector around 20%. There is no labor stanglehold. Quite the contrary, corporations have so much power that they run both political parties.

I own a small business and I am not a union member. But I realize that higher paying union jobs are good for my business, without them we have a country of lower paying service jobs. I'd take the 1950's and 1960's when private sector union membership was at 35% and we had a strong industrial base.

I keep all my old American made tools in good condition, some of which are over 30 years old. The chinese shit that I would have to replace them with isn't worth a dime.