More reasons to bust up the unions

[EXman]

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: fisheerman
we have got to get some competition with the public school system.

Everyone I know that can afford it (some are putting off retirement) are sending their kids to private school. Even as they are paying for public schools and this kind of stuff with outrageous taxes.

And everyone I know is sending their kids to public schools. Public schools are of variable quality. There's a reason why similar houses in towns with good school systems cost more.

You are missing the point. Even Good public schools are just that. Good. Why can't we strive for more than just good? That sounds like a good idea.

You can't expect quality education to exist in a vacuum. In this case the vacuum is the students desire to learn. Without students that are excited about getting an education you can have the most motivated qualified teachers in the world and they'd make zero difference.

It's not the public school's fault that parents are raising lazy children.

Blanket statements don't keep you warm at night. You should be ashamed of yourself for blaming children and parents in that broad opinion. Are there those kids and parents out there? Of course! But is it a huge majority of them? Not a chance in hell. Kids are curious by nature.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: fisheerman

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: fisheerman
we have got to get some competition with the public school system.

Everyone I know that can afford it (some are putting off retirement) are sending their kids to private school. Even as they are paying for public schools and this kind of stuff with outrageous taxes.

And everyone I know is sending their kids to public schools. Public schools are of variable quality. There's a reason why similar houses in towns with good school systems cost more.

You are missing the point. Even Good public schools are just that. Good. Why can't we strive for more than just good? That sounds like a good idea.

Let's put it this way. I have public and private options. The private options aren't any better than the public option where I am. That holds for any of the surrounding suburbs as well. The private schools only have the advantage over the "big city" schools and even that's only because of safety concerns.

How are the private schools in business if they are no better than the public schools?
Wouldn't the market dictate them as a failure?
Do you have people in your area that are paying money for the same education that they are getting in public school? Why would someone pay?

The education quality is very similar. The private schools offer safe learning environments for city dwellers and religious education for those who need God in Calculus class.

There is also a Montesorri private school for preschool through 8th grade. Some parents believe their kids do better in that kind of environment. My family falls into this category.

And believe it or not, I'm very happy to pay taxes for high quality public schools because it helps keep my property value up.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: fisheerman
we have got to get some competition with the public school system.

Everyone I know that can afford it (some are putting off retirement) are sending their kids to private school. Even as they are paying for public schools and this kind of stuff with outrageous taxes.

And everyone I know is sending their kids to public schools. Public schools are of variable quality. There's a reason why similar houses in towns with good school systems cost more.

You are missing the point. Even Good public schools are just that. Good. Why can't we strive for more than just good? That sounds like a good idea.

You can't expect quality education to exist in a vacuum. In this case the vacuum is the students desire to learn. Without students that are excited about getting an education you can have the most motivated qualified teachers in the world and they'd make zero difference.

It's not the public school's fault that parents are raising lazy children.

Blanket statements don't keep you warm at night. You should be ashamed of yourself for blaming children and parents in that broad opinion. Are there those kids and parents out there? Of course! But is it a huge majority of them? Not a chance in hell. Kids are curious by nature.

Are you kidding? Even when I was in school, you could tell which kids had families that value education and which did not. Any teacher will tell you much the same thing. Love of learning starts in the home. Kids might be curious by nature but if the parent sets a bad example, then that curiosity quickly dies.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: microbial
Yet more terrorist attacks on regular working-class American citizens by big-business and corporate nutbags whose real agenda is to bust all unions everywhere-- so they can increase their million-dollar bonuses.

These are the people who've f'ed our economy, and yet they want nothing more than to leave working Americans unprotected from their corruption.

So you think the mayors/governors will pay themselves million dollar bonuses for busting public workers unions?

Hmm...it actually may not be such a bad idea...

 

[surfsatwerk]

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: fisheerman
we have got to get some competition with the public school system.

Everyone I know that can afford it (some are putting off retirement) are sending their kids to private school. Even as they are paying for public schools and this kind of stuff with outrageous taxes.

And everyone I know is sending their kids to public schools. Public schools are of variable quality. There's a reason why similar houses in towns with good school systems cost more.

You are missing the point. Even Good public schools are just that. Good. Why can't we strive for more than just good? That sounds like a good idea.

You can't expect quality education to exist in a vacuum. In this case the vacuum is the students desire to learn. Without students that are excited about getting an education you can have the most motivated qualified teachers in the world and they'd make zero difference.

It's not the public school's fault that parents are raising lazy children.

Blanket statements don't keep you warm at night. You should be ashamed of yourself for blaming children and parents in that broad opinion. Are there those kids and parents out there? Of course! But is it a huge majority of them? Not a chance in hell. Kids are curious by nature.

I was raised by teachers and I can make a blanket statement from general life experience. Teachers, by in large, want to teach. People don't just show up to schools and say hey I want to teach and get jobs. It's a societal issue where parents treat schools like tax funded day care. Granted good schools have good students who have good parents. Want to know way a school is "bad", go look at the student's home life.

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: fisheerman
we have got to get some competition with the public school system.

Everyone I know that can afford it (some are putting off retirement) are sending their kids to private school. Even as they are paying for public schools and this kind of stuff with outrageous taxes.

And everyone I know is sending their kids to public schools. Public schools are of variable quality. There's a reason why similar houses in towns with good school systems cost more.

You are missing the point. Even Good public schools are just that. Good. Why can't we strive for more than just good? That sounds like a good idea.

You can't expect quality education to exist in a vacuum. In this case the vacuum is the students desire to learn. Without students that are excited about getting an education you can have the most motivated qualified teachers in the world and they'd make zero difference.

It's not the public school's fault that parents are raising lazy children.

Blanket statements don't keep you warm at night. You should be ashamed of yourself for blaming children and parents in that broad opinion. Are there those kids and parents out there? Of course! But is it a huge majority of them? Not a chance in hell. Kids are curious by nature.

Are you kidding? Even when I was in school, you could tell which kids had families that value education and which did not. Any teacher will tell you much the same thing. Love of learning starts in the home. Kids might be curious by nature but if the parent sets a bad example, then that curiosity quickly dies.

You are kidding right? Damn there is no chance you will actually read a statement, think about it, and then respond to it is there.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: fisheerman
we have got to get some competition with the public school system.

Everyone I know that can afford it (some are putting off retirement) are sending their kids to private school. Even as they are paying for public schools and this kind of stuff with outrageous taxes.

And everyone I know is sending their kids to public schools. Public schools are of variable quality. There's a reason why similar houses in towns with good school systems cost more.

You are missing the point. Even Good public schools are just that. Good. Why can't we strive for more than just good? That sounds like a good idea.

You can't expect quality education to exist in a vacuum. In this case the vacuum is the students desire to learn. Without students that are excited about getting an education you can have the most motivated qualified teachers in the world and they'd make zero difference.

It's not the public school's fault that parents are raising lazy children.

Blanket statements don't keep you warm at night. You should be ashamed of yourself for blaming children and parents in that broad opinion. Are there those kids and parents out there? Of course! But is it a huge majority of them? Not a chance in hell. Kids are curious by nature.

Are you kidding? Even when I was in school, you could tell which kids had families that value education and which did not. Any teacher will tell you much the same thing. Love of learning starts in the home. Kids might be curious by nature but if the parent sets a bad example, then that curiosity quickly dies.

You are kidding right? Damn there is no chance you will actually read a statement, think about it, and then respond to it is there.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
I was raised by teachers and I can make a blanket statement from general life experience. Teachers, by in large, want to teach. People don't just show up to schools and say hey I want to teach and get jobs. It's a societal issue where parents treat schools like tax funded day care. Granted good schools have good students who have good parents. Want to know way a school is "bad", go look at the student's home life.

It's true most teachers just want to teach. But all of them want to milk the system for all it's worth and maximize their income and power through the unions.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
I was raised by teachers and I can make a blanket statement from general life experience. Teachers, by in large, want to teach. People don't just show up to schools and say hey I want to teach and get jobs. It's a societal issue where parents treat schools like tax funded day care. Granted good schools have good students who have good parents. Want to know way a school is "bad", go look at the student's home life.

It's true most teachers just want to teach. But all of them want to milk the system for all it's worth and maximize their income and power through the unions.

Everyone wants to milk the system for all its worth. Look at the bankers. Its silly to expect teachers to be any different.

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: fisheerman
we have got to get some competition with the public school system.

Everyone I know that can afford it (some are putting off retirement) are sending their kids to private school. Even as they are paying for public schools and this kind of stuff with outrageous taxes.

And everyone I know is sending their kids to public schools. Public schools are of variable quality. There's a reason why similar houses in towns with good school systems cost more.

You are missing the point. Even Good public schools are just that. Good. Why can't we strive for more than just good? That sounds like a good idea.

You can't expect quality education to exist in a vacuum. In this case the vacuum is the students desire to learn. Without students that are excited about getting an education you can have the most motivated qualified teachers in the world and they'd make zero difference.

It's not the public school's fault that parents are raising lazy children.

Blanket statements don't keep you warm at night. You should be ashamed of yourself for blaming children and parents in that broad opinion. Are there those kids and parents out there? Of course! But is it a huge majority of them? Not a chance in hell. Kids are curious by nature.

Are you kidding? Even when I was in school, you could tell which kids had families that value education and which did not. Any teacher will tell you much the same thing. Love of learning starts in the home. Kids might be curious by nature but if the parent sets a bad example, then that curiosity quickly dies.

You are kidding right? Damn there is no chance you will actually read a statement, think about it, and then respond to it is there.

Case in point! Thanks for not proving me wrong. You don't even see that I agreed that there are some students that are lazy. You are focusing on something we agree on but not the fact that a blanket statement that all the kids and parents are lazy you ignore or maybe you agree with it? Think it through. I agreed that there are those kids I'll bold it for you.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: microbial
Yet more terrorist attacks on regular working-class American citizens by big-business and corporate nutbags whose real agenda is to bust all unions everywhere-- so they can increase their million-dollar bonuses.

These are the people who've f'ed our economy, and yet they want nothing more than to leave working Americans unprotected from their corruption.

What does big business have to do with teachers sitting in the room not teaching making 70K\year??????

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
I was raised by teachers and I can make a blanket statement from general life experience. Teachers, by in large, want to teach. People don't just show up to schools and say hey I want to teach and get jobs. It's a societal issue where parents treat schools like tax funded day care. Granted good schools have good students who have good parents. Want to know way a school is "bad", go look at the student's home life.

But all of them want to milk the system for all it's worth and maximize their income and power through the unions.

So you just described every employed person on the planet, in a union or not.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
I was raised by teachers and I can make a blanket statement from general life experience. Teachers, by in large, want to teach. People don't just show up to schools and say hey I want to teach and get jobs. It's a societal issue where parents treat schools like tax funded day care. Granted good schools have good students who have good parents. Want to know way a school is "bad", go look at the student's home life.

But all of them want to milk the system for all it's worth and maximize their income and power through the unions.

So you just described every employed person on the planet, in a union or not.

With a union you get an unfair advantage. It's effectively legalized extortion.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
I was raised by teachers and I can make a blanket statement from general life experience. Teachers, by in large, want to teach. People don't just show up to schools and say hey I want to teach and get jobs. It's a societal issue where parents treat schools like tax funded day care. Granted good schools have good students who have good parents. Want to know way a school is "bad", go look at the student's home life.

But all of them want to milk the system for all it's worth and maximize their income and power through the unions.

So you just described every employed person on the planet, in a union or not.

With any powerful organization you get an advantage.

Corrected for you. Any big, powerful organization has an advantage.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Did the teachers have problems like these when they had the ability to discipline as well as teach?

I seen the documentary about the "Rubber Room" a while back and remember the interview with the students who bragged about how they can get rid of a teacher by accusing them of anything regardless if it is true or false.

With conditions like that who can effectively teach let alone want to?

Teachers have to be very careful of what they do or say because of this. We (I) installed a security camera system in our school partly for this very reason, to protect students as well as staff. If there are allegations it will most likely get caught on camera.

To the OP: The numbers are large in his case because we are talking about NYC, how many teachers are put on hold vs how many teachers teach in that city?
I can see the teachers having a right to have each case arbitrated especially considering how common false allegations occur. In this case blame can't be put fully on the unions. It is mostly the school district for not providing enough arbitrators.

Or we can just fire innocent teachers and ban them from their chosen field for life and call it a day.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
I was raised by teachers and I can make a blanket statement from general life experience. Teachers, by in large, want to teach. People don't just show up to schools and say hey I want to teach and get jobs. It's a societal issue where parents treat schools like tax funded day care. Granted good schools have good students who have good parents. Want to know way a school is "bad", go look at the student's home life.

It's true most teachers just want to teach. But all of them want to milk the system for all it's worth and maximize their income and power through the unions.

Everyone wants to milk the system for all its worth. Look at the bankers. Its silly to expect teachers to be any different.

Whenever hear words like these I know I'm hearing an ignorant swine boldly projecting out onto the world exactly what he really is. It is you who would milk the system. You have no idea about anybody else.

 

[ayabe]

I know lots of people who are paid enormous sums of money to do nothing and they're not in a union.

In fact, there are three in my hallway.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

All the teachers I'm aware of get paid dirt. Just barely enough to raise a family.

 

[Modelworks]

I had a drafting teacher back in high school, this was before computers we used paper and pencils to draft, who would walk into the classroom , write a page number on the board, walk over to his desk, tell everyone 'you got any questions , come ask me', then put his feet on the desk, lean back , and go to sleep. Everyone would get an A , the only test he gave were open book.

Amazingly I still learned a lot in that class, although I did it on my own without the teacher , just read the book.

Teachers like that need to be fired.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
I had a drafting teacher back in high school, this was before computers we used paper and pencils to draft, who would walk into the classroom , write a page number on the board, walk over to his desk, tell everyone 'you got any questions , come ask me', then put his feet on the desk, lean back , and go to sleep. Everyone would get an A , the only test he gave were open book.

Amazingly I still learned a lot in that class, although I did it on my own without the teacher , just read the book.

Teachers like that need to be fired.

Jesus, did you ever ask him to teach? You need to be fired, I think. Personally, I was such an avid learner my teachers were kept wide awake.

 

[StageLeft]

Unions should be illegal for public entities, PERIOD.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Modelworks
I had a drafting teacher back in high school, this was before computers we used paper and pencils to draft, who would walk into the classroom , write a page number on the board, walk over to his desk, tell everyone 'you got any questions , come ask me', then put his feet on the desk, lean back , and go to sleep. Everyone would get an A , the only test he gave were open book.

Amazingly I still learned a lot in that class, although I did it on my own without the teacher , just read the book.

Teachers like that need to be fired.

Jesus, did you ever ask him to teach? You need to be fired, I think. Personally, I was such an avid learner my teachers were kept wide awake.

Ask him to teach ? We had a hard enough time waking him up when we wanted to ask a question
Almost everyone in the class did nothing but goof off. It was well known around the school that it was an easy class .

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: fisheerman
When will it ever end.............

Teachers unions have entirely to much control in this country.
This isn't some union trying to get additional compensation from some private company this union is milking us "the tax payer" dry.

Link

Unions? Looks more like overly official miss-management.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Unions should be illegal for public entities, PERIOD.

So you'd take away their right to organize?

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
I was raised by teachers and I can make a blanket statement from general life experience. Teachers, by in large, want to teach. People don't just show up to schools and say hey I want to teach and get jobs. It's a societal issue where parents treat schools like tax funded day care. Granted good schools have good students who have good parents. Want to know way a school is "bad", go look at the student's home life.

It's true most teachers just want to teach. But all of them want to milk the system for all it's worth and maximize their income and power through the unions.

Everyone wants to milk the system for all its worth. Look at the bankers. Its silly to expect teachers to be any different.

Whenever hear words like these I know I'm hearing an ignorant swine boldly projecting out onto the world exactly what he really is. It is you who would milk the system. You have no idea about anybody else.

Good catch I agree hardily. Sammy seems a tad simple and not in a good way.